Scenario: Build no military, wait to be invaded

[jerVL/kg]

First, let me introduce myself. My name is Jeremy, and I'm a Civaholic. (Everybody now: "Hi Jeremy!") I love this game, but there is one AI that spoils the fun for me. That AI is Cyrus.

Good Lord, how I loathe Cyrus. Hate, hate, HATE Cyrus. He always builds where I want to build, he always steals that religion I want, or that tech I want that gives a freebie. I try to demolish his empire ASAP in any game he shows up, but as I go up in levels, he's become a much harder nut to crack. It's gotten to the point where I don't want to play anymore! Or, at least, check the Top 5 Cities screen in 3960BC, and if I see Persepolis, restart.

However...instead of getting therapy, I've decided to face this in a Zen-like way. I must get to know Cyrus. And in order to understand Cyrus, the only way is to BE Cyrus.

So here's the challenge:
Leader: Cyrus (Persia)
Map: Standard, Archipelago, Snaky Continents, High Sea Level, Temperate.
Difficulty: Monarch (my first time at this level)
Speed: Quick
Victory Conditions: All except Space enabled
Victory to Achieve: None (see below)
Other conditions: Random Seed on Reload, Permanent Alliances enabled.

Special rules:
1) Expand to fill all available land, then consolidate and explore no further.
2) Do not engage in war with anyone, including barb cities.
3) When meeting other civs, be polite, but decline all requests for Open Borders or tech trades. (Trading resources is okay.) Do not join wars when asked, do not switch religions or civics when asked, sign no defensive pacts. Refuse ALL demands for tribute, but gladly offer help when asked nicely.
4) Guard each city with one warrior & one archer, and nothing else. Build NO other military, except as necessary to deal with barbarians.
5) Focus on religious, commerce & science techs only. Avoid ALL military techs, until necessary to proceed further. Build as many Wonders as feasable, but don't go nuts.

Ultimate Goal: To see how long it takes before another civilization decides we're easy pickings, and destroys us.

First report & screenshots to follow shortly...

(Note: Previous discussion in the Strategy Forum thread: I need to get this out of my system...)

 

[jerVL/kg]

4000 BC: We have a very nice start with clams, corn, dyes, lots of flood plains, and cows nearby. Settle in spot & start building stuff. Next turn, top 5 cities shows Moscow, Thebes, Beijing, and Teotichu...Teochihu...uhh, Monty's capital. Well, I guess we know who's gonna invade us.

Research Mysticism, then Polytheism. Discover Hinduism c.3000BC. Scout discovers Spices, Rice, Ivory & Fish to the south. Lots of jungle, too. Popped a barb hut for Archery. There is more unexplored land to the north.

2950 BC: We find more ivory and meet Saladin to the north:



Looks like we got a small island all to ourselves. Perfect! Exactly what I wanted. Oh yeah, Saladin is Buddhist...founded while I was researching Mysticism.

Research (in no particular order): Mining, Bronze Working (no copper nearby), Animal Husbandry (we have horses), The Wheel, Pottery, Fishing & Sailing. Chop a few Settlers, then start The Parthenon. Our empire as of 1450BC:


Chop 3 forests to speed up Parthenon, but save the remaining 2 for later. Little risky, but I think we'll be okay. Adopt Hinduism (actually did so a few turns earlier) and revolt to Slavery/Organized Religion simultaneously. According to St. Augustine, we are #5 in size, Saladin is #4.

1150 BC: Persepolis is already unhappy. That's gonna be a problem until Calendar. Shouldn't affect the Parthenon, will crack the whip soon.

1000 BC: Stonehenge is BIADL. Research: Writing.
840 BC: Great Lighthouse is BIADL.
760 BC: Confucianism FIADL.

Writing finished. I decide to take a BIG risk here and shoot for Theology. It's risky, and possibly will deny us the Great Library (the next Wonder I'm gunning for) but 3 holy cities will make us more likely to be invaded, I think. The planned tech beeline, btw, is Alphabet -> Literature (GL) -> Music. Obviously we'll have to pick up Calendar at some point, but as Mathematics is a prereq. for both Calendar & Music, shouldn't be a problem. We also need Iron Working very soon.

600 BC: Whip those lazy citizens of Persepolis to complete The Parthenon ahead of schedule:


There are islands to the east, so I build a Galley & send our scouts a-sailin'. First, though, I switch from Hinduism to Judaism, since that religion has spread to Pasargade & Susa, and I don't have monasteries to build any missionaries yet. Micromanage cities to run 80% science break even, with Theology due in 25 turns. Man, that's a long time. Especially for Quick.

560 BC: Discover an itty-bitty island with Sugar, and we meet Mao Zedong:


(I've never played against Mao before. Is he aggressive?)

480 BC: Find another, larger island with pigs, silk, more horses, and some unfriendly locals:



Game suggests I pop the hut. Duh, scouts can't do that to guarded huts! Stupid game. LOTS of silk is found further south:



Quickly rush an Archer/Settler combo & send them via Galley to settle near the barb hut. Build Granaries/Lighthouses all around, Work Boats to work the clams, and of course the requisite Warriors & Archers. Consider building Barracks and/or Walls, but that seems to go against our "Invade Me!" policy, so I skip 'em. Persepolis and Susa get libraries.

160 BC: Pyramids BIADL, Taoism FIADL. Oh yeah, someone built The Oracle too, way back in 1200BC or so. Someone must have REALLY wanted it!

40 BC: Miss founding Christianity BY ONE FREAKING TURN!!! It must have been Cyrus. He always does this to me! Oh wait...I'M Cyrus. Who could it be, then? In other news, The Colossus is BIADL.

1 AD: Mao converts to Christianity. Ok, now we know who beat us. I sure hope Mao doesn't turn out to be another Cyrus. Not used to playing against China. Since we're here already, start The Sistine Chapel in Susa. Might as well grab it while it's still available. Susa is very unhappy, so I whip 'em to finish the library quicker. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

40 AD: Found 4th city, Arbela, and connect the horses (finally):


Susa immediately becomes unhappy again. WTH?? I thought I did that right. Not really used to the Slavery civic yet. Time to build some temples. Hmm...no temples? Oh yeah. Need PRIESTHOOD for temples! Will only take 2 turns, though. Damn, researching all these techs by myself is very hard!

(Speaking of stuff I'm not used to, I don't understand how the AI civs manage to crank out those Great People so damn fast. So far about six Great People have been born in distant lands, and Persepolis still is only 1/3 of the way towards that Great Prophet to build the shrine! Guess it'll go faster, after temples are built and I can add Priest Specialists.)

80AD: Settler arrives at new island, and...okay, now I'm stuck. I have no idea where to build here:


Green Dot is where my settler is, where I planned to build to grab the fish & horses and pop the warrior hut for free. However, the game is recommending I build on Blue Dot, presumably to grab the silk & oasis. However #2, that would conflict with RED dot, the only place on the island which will grab all four silks! (Note: there are no significant resources to the north.)

I'm also not sure about the pigs & ivory. How should I map this out?

 

[cabert]

I would go with at least 2 citiesone, one NW of the green dot and one W of the red dot, so you got pigs, horses, silk, fish.

If you're not afraid of a few desert tiles, a third city on the W of the northern elephant would give you another coastal city, with ivory, doomed to stay beyond 12 pop maximum.

I didn't see the oasis... no big deal, but fresh water can useful.

 

[jerVL/kg]

Thanks cabert, for the suggestions here and in the other thread. Sounds like a plan. Tarsus founded in 120AD:



Priesthood finished, start Jewish Temple in Susa. It's not gonna be enough to combat unhappiness, so research Monarchy next, due in...NINE FREAKING TURNS!! Yoiks! Time for some MM...and manage to shave that down to 8 turns by switching Persepolis to max commerce. Our capital's actually growing faster with max commerce on, that's gonna be one hell of a money city someday.

Since the rules permit defense against barbs, Tarsus starts an Immortal. I know it's just a stationary warrior, but there's still a lotta fog out there, and barb axemen are due to appear any minute now.

The chamber music that accompanies the Classical Era is starting to get on my nerves, so I switch to Jethro Tull.

160AD: The Enemy Has Been Spotted Near Tarsus!
Who is it?? Monty? Saladin? Who?? Oh, wait...it's the stupid barb hut. He's not goin' nowhere.

In other news...suddenly realize that I *completely* forgot about the scout fortified on Sugar Island. And by now, Mao has a galley with a settler party to claim it:



Quickly start a settler in Pasargadae, but no way will it finish in time. We're desperately short of galleys (should those count as military?) so Persepolis builds one.

240AD: Tarsus borders pop, and the warrior converts to our creed:



To my surprise, Mao's settler does NOT unload on Sugar Island. In fact, he looks confused. (AI settler parties often do.) We'll see where he goes.

320AD: We finally get our first GP, the Great Artist Homer, in Persepolis:



Sure could've used a Great Prophet instead, but whatever. Like I said, I suck at managing GPs. Ok...Homer will teach us Monarchy, which is due in 2 turns already, so scratch that. We could add him to a city as a super-specialist, and that sounds good idea because -- since we were unlucky enough to draw peaceful neighbors -- we should start planning for a Cultural Victory here. Would suck to get all the way to 2050AD, never get invaded, and lose on points...still, I don't know which city to add him to yet. So I put him to sleep, we'll see what tech he'll teach us in 2 turns.

360AD: Pasargadae finishes...A GALLEY??!? How did I screw THAT up??? Wonderful...now we have 2 extra galleys, and no settlers to put them on. I really shouldn't so much while playing this game...especially on Monarch. This ain't Prince, baby.

I load 2 workers onto the galley and head for Tarsus island, since they have nothing left to do on the mainland until IW/Calendar arrives.



Our fog-busting warrior spots Mao's Galley, now empty, heading for home. I wonder where he landed? Probably wants the silk.

400AD: Monarchy is done, Alphabet due in 8 turns at 18/-1. Sally & Mao don't have it yet. Revolt to Hereditary Rule.

Homer will now teach us...Divine Right. And he won't teach us all of it, either. Still don't know what to do with him, so back to sleep he goes.

560AD: Tarsus finally finishes its Immortal, and...whoa! THAT'S TOTALLY AWESOME!!:



Ok. I'm not taking back anything bad I said about Cyrus, but I gotta give him props for this. He's got hands down the MOST COOL LOOKING UU ever! I wonder why I never saw one before? They probably obsolete really fast.

Mao's settler is wandering around the island, still confused. I'm concerned he will settle right next to the channel, cutting off Tarsus from the mainland. Then we'd have no choice but to open borders, which is against the rules. Let's wait and see what he does.

 

[jerVL/kg]

There's a 12 image limit?? Fair enough, but...somebody can't count. Oh well, here's the rest of the report:

620AD: According to Livy, we are the 2nd most cultured civ in the world. Saladin is #3, and Mao Zedong "the Hopeless" is #7. (I'll bet Egypt is #1, they always are.)

Persepolis finishes Jewish Temple, starts...another Immortal. I'm sorry, I know it's against the rules, but I *gotta* have myself another one of these. UU's should get special dispensation, anyway. And don't worry, this is all the military we will ever have, when Montezuma arrives with muskets and grenadiers.

640AD: Heh heh heh heh heh. Okaaay. Typically, this is how it starts:



You ain't gettin' that silk, baby! I don't care that your archer's in a forest and across a river. This immortal's a UU, so it must P3WN the field in this age. I can take 'em! First, I'll suicide the warrior to soften him up. (Warriors make great artillery in the pre-Construction era, don't they?) Then, it's on like donkey kong. We have 3 Galleys, we can crank these babies out and go pillaging like crazy.....

My fingers are twitching. I wanna take this baby out for a spin and see what it can do. In a private game, you'd better believe I'd do it. But...since I've already made this story public, better stay the pacifist course. You can have the silk, Mao. Consider this your lucky day.

(I do make a note of the save, though. Y'know, for later...)

680AD: To my surprise, Mao settles by the closest silk instead of moving deeper down the island:



You see, this is AI behavior I can live with. There were so many other places he could settle that would totally screw me over, but I'm more than willing to grant him this piece of land. We don't really lose anything, and I'm sure I can out-culture him down the road. (On the other hand, right now I'm picturing Mao banging his head on the desk, screaming: "DAMN YOU, CYRUS!! DAMN!! YOU!! I WANTED THOSE PIGS!!! YOU DO THIS TO ME EVERY! FREAKING!! TIME!!!!! DAMN YOU, DAMN YOU TO HELL YOU BASTARD!!!")

Actually, I'm starting to understand now how Cyrus is always able to out-pace me. That Expansive trait rocks, it makes health an non-issue. The Creative trait means I don't have to waste time on culture buildings -- Tarsus doesn't even have religion yet, and LOOK how fast it's growing. (No wonder he became the dominant civ on that Ice Age map I played as America. With health resources nearly non-existent, I had to stunt my empire's growth while Cyrus happily slimed his way across the map like the fungus he is. But that's okay, I've got the Internet due in 6 turns, which will give me stealth bombers to match your jet fighters, and Mechs to maul your Modern Armor, and I got Navy SEALs baby, you better believe I'm comin' for your ass!!!!!)

(But...I digress.)

In other news, Persepolis is unhappy again, so switch to Hindu Temple. Settler is due in 2 turns, but I forgot to make an archer escort, so waste another 2 turns of Sistine-building time in Susa to make one. Alpha due in 3 turns, we are break even on science w/ 13 gold in the bank.

680AD: The original galley has made it home via the long way around Tarsus Island, and there is absolutely no more land to the south or east. We're done expanding, it seems. Time to backfill. The scouts arrive in port, and since they have nothing left to do, I delete them. Hey, we're back up to 13/+1 gold. I didn't know scouts had a maintenance cost.

Can get Alpha in 1 turn by raising science to 80%, but that would make our cash flow 13/-14, and I have no idea what will happen if I do that, so I settle for 2 turns.

720AD: Ewww, Susa has gone stinky:



Kinda looks like Los Angeles. On a good day.

Clicking Avoid Growth actually shaves a turn off the Sistine. Things are looking good, but we're gonna have to pick up Math pretty soon to get an aqueduct in there.

Alpha due in 1 turn, drop science to maximize cash & still finish Alpha in 1. (I do this all the time, but I wonder, does that help or does that actually hurt my science progress??)

Whip granary in Tarsus, even though it's only size 2, but it's growing next turn anyway and I'm feeling vicious.

760AD: Mao immediately dials us up and offers a trade of Incese for Ivory. You gonna build some war elephants and stampede over my badass immortals, Mao? Are ya? Are ya? PLEASE say yes. I want to be invaded by someone, and I want that someone to be you. Gotcher self a deal there, buddy. Mao also has fish, but so will we eventually, and I have nothing to trade for it yet.

Alphabet is finished, so let's see where we stand tech-wise...yowza! We're down a whole lotta techs. Mao has Meditation / Math / Iron Working / Metal Casting. I'll bet he has Construction, too. Only tech we're up is Alphabet. Saladin has Meditation / Code of Laws / Math / IW / MC, we are up Alpha, Theo & Monarchy. Neither will trade (not that we would if we could) because Mao thinks he has a monopoly on all of them, and Saladin says we're his worst enemy. Tell me, Sally...how many people have you actually met yet? I know you haven't met Mao. You social l00z3r.

Saladin in Annoyed, but Mao is only Cautious. For some reason, we only have a -2 "heathen religion" penalty with Mao, while it's -4 with Sally. What's the deal with that?

Can get Literature in 4 turns @ 70% science which makes our cash flow 34/-6, kinda rich, but I think I'll be able to drop science next turn & still maintain the pace.

800AD: Sure enough, we can drop science back down to 60% and still complete Lit in 3 turns @ 28/-3, which seems a lot more reasonable. City maintenance is killing us, though. We're gonna need courthouses soon.

Settler/archer racing to Sugar Island, but it looks bad. We *do* need another Settler ASAP, and since Persepolis is about to grow into unhealthiness, I queue one up there.

840AD: Aw crap, I had Mathematics queued by mistake!!!!! Yeah, gotta cut down on the during late night sessions. This ain't Prince, baby.

Mao lands on Sugar Island same time as our settler. Once again, this is how it begins:



Except it already would have begun, right? Back in the Battle for Silk Island. I should be out burning & pillaging Mao's land as we speak. Haven't seen any Cho-Ku-Nos yet, even though he's almost certainly got Machinery by now...

Chichen Itza is BIADL. Too bad, could've used that one -- especially since it would never obsolete, as I'm gonna skip Rifling entirely.

880AD: Sure enough, Mao claims Sugar Island for himself:



While that may seem like a Cyrus move, it really isn't. It's my own dumb fault for not rushing a settler there immediately, and blocking Mao's expansion. Like I said, I never do seem to get settlers built fast enough. Ah well, live and learn. Or live and don't learn. Whatever.

Here's the situation at Tarsus:



We still have closed borders, but that's a non-issue here. I've already got the cultural upper hand and can probably steal away that extra silk with little trouble. Heck, the city will probably flip to me somewhere down the line. I'm also willing to bet there's iron in them thar hills, and we just can't see it yet.

In faaaaaact.....

...I never did do anything with that Great Artist, did I??



[to be continued...]

 

[Elrohir]

Alpha due in 1 turn, drop science to maximize cash & still finish Alpha in 1. (I do this all the time, but I wonder, does that help or does that actually hurt my science progress??)

I used to do this too, until I realized that it does hurt your tech progress. In Civ4 they finally fixed it so left-over beakers, like hammers now, are kept on and transferred to the next project. You can turn the science down and not change the turns until you learn something if you need gold, but that will make it so it takes longer to research the next tech. Generally, I just leave it where it is unless I'm desperate for cash.

I hope that helped; good story so far.

 

[JoeBlade]

You're my star of the day jer, this story totally had me in stitches. Your loathing of Cyrus is almost tangible.

On the "heathen religion" penalty: some civs apparently consider differing religions more of an issue than others. I've seen it in many of my games: after having been landlocked on my own continent for a while I meet several civs (upon Optics) and a find that some of them share a religion, obviously different from my own. A bunch of turns later certain civs will absolutely hate me for it, others don't really mind that much (a mere -1 to relations)

 

[jerVL/kg]

I used to do this too, until I realized that it does hurt your tech progress. In Civ4 they finally fixed it so left-over beakers, like hammers now, are kept on and transferred to the next project. You can turn the science down and not change the turns until you learn something if you need gold, but that will make it so it takes longer to research the next tech. Generally, I just leave it where it is unless I'm desperate for cash.

Ok thanks, I'll keep that in mind. (Usually I use the cash to upgrade outdated troops, but in this game...not an issue. )

Ok, here go with the next turnset.

960AD: Gordium founded near the straits of Arbela.



Game suggests a couple tiles SW, and under normal circumstances that would be the spot...but since we missed Sugar Island, we're gonna have to take it by culture. (It also saves us from chopping a jungle!) Cash flow instantly drops to 27/-9!!! Gotta drop science down to 40%, now we're at 27/-3 with Literature still in 1 turn. Still sucks, but not as much.

Whip Settler in Persepolis, just to speed things along. Wanna get started on the Great Library next turn. Sistine due in five, can't whip it yet.

I can't seem to find the third worker anywhere. Where on earth did I send him??



Mmm....sheep. Sure could go for a gyro right about now.

1000AD: Literature is done...and we are immediately coldcocked by a one-two punch of Great Library BIADL and Sistine Chapel BIADL. And we were doing so well! Yep, that Theology sidetrip really cost us.

Ok...Mathematics next. 40% science will get it in 6 turns @ 25/-5, or NINE turns at 30% & 24/+2. Sweet Jesus, I'm not at all used to playing it this close to the edge. Where am I gonna get extra money? Let's see...

Decide we don't need extra galleys after all, so I delete the two that were just built. Cash flow now 24/-3 @ 40%. Still not good enough. Oh...here we go. Switch Persepolis to max commerce fixes cash flow problem (24/+1) and reduces Math to 5 turns!! That's more like it. HEY! What am I worried about? We're getting a refund on the Sistine next turn! Ok...CRANK SCIENCE UP to 70%, now 24/-21, Math due in 3 turns!! Yes! The "Build A Wonder Just For The Insurance Money" strategy pays off again! (And now I wish I didn't delete those Galleys...ah, well.)

Religion doesn't seem to be spreading to Tarsus Island, so start Jewish missionaries in Susa & Arbela, due in 3 & 4 turns respectively.

1025AD: We get a +334 gold rebate for not completing the Sistine Chapel. Frankly, I'm glad. We're gonna be running science at a deficit for many turns to come, just to stay afloat.

Homer the Great Artist arrives in Tarsus. Someone set up us the Culture Bomb!

This, is your brain:


This, is your brain on Persian Culture:


Any questions??

Drop science to 60%, Math due in 2 turns at a slightly more reasonable (or rather, less horrifying) cash flow of 337/-15. In other news, Mao revolts to Theocracy (you're building those war elephants, aren't you Mao?) and Saladin adopts Hereditary Rule. No change in the tech window, except that Sally obviously has Monarchy now.

1050AD: Nothing much happens, however as the Settler heads towards the ferry to Silk Island, I ponder the options on how to backfill the rest of our main continent. Here's what it looks like:



Game suggests blue circle, but that won't work because I've already chosen Red Dot [err...at least there should be a red dot, but I forgot to add it], the spot directly south of the peak, as the fishing village city, as it's the only place that can work both fishies. I'm thinking the grassland between the two hills (one square west of blue circle) or the hill 2 squares west. Gonna havta go mad choppin' jungles, but Hanging Gardens is due in 16 turns (maybe) and I wanna have all our cities built by then, since it only benefits existing cities. Any suggestions?

(Image limit again...grrr...rest of turnset comin' right up.)

 

[ArmoredCavalry]

get currency or calender to help with the fledgling of an economy

 

[jerVL/kg]

1075AD: FINALLY locate the 3rd worker sleeping in Arbela. Hey! GET UP, you slacker! This ain't no union job! Get yerass out there and build that cottage at Susa like I forgot to tell you to do years ago!

Math finished, start Iron Working. Apparently I already have beakers towards it, no clue how that happened. Due in 3 turns, 50% science, 309/-8 gp. We can see now that Mao has Currency, Calendar, AND Construction on us, Sally has only Currency. Amazingly, we are now 2nd place of the 3 known Civs, if only by three points over Sal. Mao is ahead of us by at least half. Ya know, if it wasn't for our pacifist policy...because I haven't seen a single Choku yet. I'll be he has no iron at all.

1100AD: Susa finishes Missionary, starts on aqueduct (needed for THG.) By the way, here's what Stinky Susa looks like now:



There's 2 floodplains and 2 plains hills that can't be worked. Maybe put another city there? I'm not used to building so many cities so close together...

Also, I'm debating the wisdom of cottaging the hell out of everything. It's standard strategy I know, but this is a production town, and we should start thinking about replacing the towns with watermills & workshops eventually. (Don't think we need farms...got food to waste.) Anyhow, once again, suggestions will be appreciated.

1125AD: Iron will obsolete our precious Warriors once it's hooked up (if we even have it) so I start build a few here and there. Persepolis has nothing to do, so I queue a couple Hindu Missionaries -- gotta get that religion spreading, too. Susa in particular could use more happiness.

I suddenly realize...with Pers on max commerce, we're not working any Priest specialists! And we need those...hmm. Turns out we're 3 points away from a GP anyway, will be 56% Artist, 35% scientist...or 7% prophet. Heh...never mind. Susa, having been shafted by the Sistine, is working towards 100% Prophet, but has a long way to go. Yeah...definitely need another temple there.

Move settler to Megasilk location, but don't settle yet, because the maintenance costs will murder us. We need to chop the forest first, anyway.

1150AD: Iron Working arrives, and so does Nick Copernicus:



We also have Iron! It's under a cottage, but it hasn't matured yet, so that's okay. Lucky thing too, this town could use a boost production-wise. Oddly, there is no iron on Tarsus Island. Strange, that.

Nicky will teach us Paper, but we don't need that. I think we will build...an Academy!! Oh yeah, look at research now. Calendar drops from 7 to 5 turns!! Crank science up to 70% again, now Cal due in 4 turns @ 280/-30.

Warriors finish, but they have nowhere to guard yet, so I send them to Susa as that town's about to get unhappy again.

1175AD: Notre Dame BIADL, so much for the Music beeline. In other news, the culture bombed town of Hangzhou somehow managed to build an axeman:



Now how did that happen, when they're cut off from home base and don't have copper or iron? Axemen require one of those, don't they??

Drop science to 60%; cash flow now 250/-21, Calendar still due in 3 turns.

1200AD: WTH...NOBODY is building a Settler???? I wanna talk to the head manager NOW!! Ok...Pers can build one in 6 turns, nobody else can build in less than 8, and with HG 12 turns away, that's cutting it way too close. However, building a settler in Pers somehow drops Calendar research time from 2 to 3 turns!! Gotta crank science back up to 70% again. We are majorly bleeding cash here: 230/-26. (Once again, thank God the Sistine didn't finish!)



Spot a barb galley off the coast near Hangzhou -- send our galley (which just offloaded the missionaries) to deal with it. Probably should build a backup galley as well, so queue one up in Tarsus to be chopped in a few turns. Mao has longbows now. Ooooh I am sooooo scaaaared....

1225AD: Bactra founded at silk plantation, queue up lighthouse to be chopped. Ouch...40 turns! This ain't gonna be a production town, I have a feeling. Lots of forest to chop, though. 60% science, 205/-23, Calendar in 1.

1250AD: Calendar done. Hmm...lotta choices to research next. Obviously, we need either Currency or Code of Laws. While I'm leaning towards Currency for the trade routes, I think we should do CoL first. We're running out of stuff to build anyway, and need to get courthouses up ASAP.

However...I notice Meditation is still available, and will only cost 1 turn, so that's the one. 50% sci, 181/-16.

1275AD: Eww, now Arbela's gone stinkyyy...



Guess that's to be expected, surrounded by jungles and everything. We need more workers!!! Nothing to do about it right now except queue an aqueduct, and wait for the rice which will be connected in 2 turns. Jewish Monasteries are queued up here and there.

Start CoL, due in 6 turns, down to 40% science @ 165/-7. I don't want to deficit spend much more from here on out.

1300AD: Worker chops the lighthouse halfway in Bactra, and...OH, WOW!! It's Monty! HI, MONTY!!!!! Welcome to our idyllic utopian paradise, all nice and ready for you to invade!



And right behind him is Peter the Great of Russia, another guy I've never met in Civ4 before. They are apparently in an Amazing Caravel Race around the world for ONE! MILLION! DOLLARS! Who has the stamina to complete this grueling event? And who has the guts and courage to make it to the finish line in first place? Most importantly, who will be eliminated...TONIGHT????

[Heh. Love that show.]

Ok, here's the deal. Monty has a whole bunch of techs: Code of Laws, Drama, Feudalism, Currency, Horseback Riding, Metal Casting, and Compass. (Obviously he also has Optics, but we can't see it yet.) He will trade any of them except Drama, which he doesn't want to trade yet. However, the only thing we have to offer is Monotheism. When I ask what he wants for it, he offers me 10gp. Heh. Thanks, but no thanks Monty.

Peter, on the other hand, has CoL, Music, Currency, HR, MC, Compass, and Construction. We have Monarchy & Theology. In fact, Peter immediately offers a trade of Construction & 90 gold for Theology. When I ask what he wants for both, he offers Currency & CoL + 90 gold.

I tell him, thanks, nice offer, but I need to talk to my friends on the Civfanatics forum first...

...and so here I am. I know the rules forbid tech trading, but I'm thinking of amending that to no trading for MILITARY tech. Our economy is shot, and we're so far behind everyone else, that we really could use a boost. It doesn't seem like he's met Mao or Sally yet, so it's now or never if we're gonna do it. Question is...what should we ask for?

Trading for CoL/Currency will only lose 1 turn of research from CoL. However, I'm considering Currency/Construction (if he'll accept) and finish CoL ourselves, then beeline for Engineering and try to get the Hagia Sophia built. We could also use MC as it's a prereq for Machinery, which will come in handy. HR obviously we don't need at all, and Music is useless to us now, but Compass might come in handy if Mao or Sally ever lighten up and agree to trade. What do you guys think?

(Oh, and how do I take screenshots of the AI trade window? None of the shots I took came through, but I know it can be done...)

 

[jerVL/kg]

Uhh........just keep those suggestions rolling in, guys.

I do want to alert everyone, we may have a problem. I don't know if I'm going to be able to play this out. You see, something happened today that I forgot was gonna happen, but now that it has, it's going to draw A LOT of my attention away from Civ4. (Aside from other things I need to catch up on...like sleeping...and eating...and bathing.) You see...

Oblivion: Elder Scrolls IV came out today.

Not to sound like a heretic, but if there's one game in the world that can trump Civilization, it's the Elder Scrolls series. You all are lucky, because I went to Fry's today, and they didn't have it on shelves yet! (They said it won't be available until 4 o'clock, WTH??) Best Buy had it, but the price was too high, and CompUSA never even heard of it. (l00z3rs) So, I should be able to squeeze in one more round tonight. After that...we'll see.

I've also been giving much consideration as to which tech line we should follow next. We have lots of options open to us...including Divine Right. Nobody has Islam yet, and while Mao has the prereq's for it (Monarchy/Theology) I don't think he's working in that direction. Peter, however, *will* have the prereq's if we Mon/Theo away, which I'm inclined to do. Peter is Confucian, but it's not his native religion, and it's my experience that once a Civ has the prereq's for Divine Right and *doesn't* have its own native religion yet, they will immediately beeline for it.

I'm not banking on actually discovering Islam first, but it would be nice to have a 3rd religion in our lands, especially since they're not gonna spread anywhere and we can't inherit more from anyone else. That would set us up nice for Free Religion (which suits our utopian society, I think) and we could also take a shot at building The Spiral Minaret. DR also has excellent trade value at this stage of the game. ALSO...and this is most important...it's one of the prereqs for Nationalism. Which I think we should beeline to ASAP.

You see, I really haven't considered what to do when we DO get invaded. Will the citizens of Happy Undefended Persia fight back? Will they cower in their cities and wait for destruction? Personally, I think they'll fight back. Let me emphasize: I think THE CITIZENS will fight back. Only the citizens, not the military. And that means drafting. And that means...Nationalism.

We don't have to adopt Nationalism, obviously. But we should have the option. I'm pretty sure the happy citizens of Persia aren't gonna rely on their inept, cowardly leader Cyrus to save them.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts. Oh, Mao will trade techs with us now. He's got a few new ones (including Compass) but doesn't have Alphabet yet. He's also met Saladin by now, who's Annoyed with Mao for -4 heathen religion and -3 trading with worst enemy. (Yes, that would be us!) Monty & Peter have not met either Mao or Sal yet; Peter is Pleased with Monty, but Monty is Cautious with Peter, because apparently Peter declared war on his friend some time ago.

I've also got some demographic screens which I'm going to post following this one...

 

[jerVL/kg]

1) Score. We've actually picked up the pace a bit. Still #4, but we're growing faster than anyone else, except Mao, who we're actually keeping pace with.



2) GNP. #3 and climbing, not too shabby. Currency & CoL will help A TON here!



3) Crop Yield. Not sure what this means exactly, but we're #2 and rising fast.



4) Mfg. Goods. Not sure what this means either, but believe it or not, among the five known civs, we are #1 with a bullet!



5) Culture. Thanks to a big SPIKE from Homer The Mad Culture Bomber, we are #1 here too.



6) And finally...Power. Heh heh. Well, this should come as no surprise to anyone:



Also, here's the Top 5 Cities screen:



Persepolis is #1, beating Thebes & Mecca, which is simply amazing for having built only one Wonder. Tarsus, thanks mainly to H.T.M.C.B., is ranked #4, despite having been founded only a few centuries ago. As for the rest of the Wonders, here's now they stack out:

The Aztecs have Stonehenge, The Oracle, The Pyramids & The Colossus. I'm impressed, Monty rarely gets that many Wonders! (He must have stone.)

Russia has Chichen Itza, Notre Dame, and The Great Lighthouse.

France (unknown leader) has The Kong Mao, so obviously they founded Confucianism.

Egypt has The Sistine Chapel and The Great Library. I'm guessing they are Taoist, too. I'm rather surprised that Hatty hasn't built more Wonders than this, or for that matter more religions. She must be very isolated.

Arabia has The Mahabodi, and that's it. Mao has nothing. We've got the Parthenon, and The Hanging Gardens is U.C.

Here's the Info Screen (not sure what most of this stuff means):



Victory Conditions. In order to win by Culture, we're gonna have to pick up the pace:



And finally, the Global View. It's rather hard to tell from this image, but our empire actually spreads quite a goodly distance from north to south:



It's really weird not knowing where the other civs are, or even what kind of land our neighbors have. Saladin has basically stagnated, so I'm willing to bet he's one some very marginal land. (He has deer, which means tundra, probably lots of it.) Mao probably has more land, plus he's Organized, which is probably why he's beating everyone else in score. (It's also possible he's met Egypt & France by now, and we just don't know it yet.)

 

[picardathon]

1. I'm pretty sure that Mao is a traitor, but closer to Victoria than the Russians.
2. Crop yield is food, cus they've got food in the parenthesis.
3. Mfg goods is production, because there's production in the parenthesis

 

[jerVL/kg]

1. I'm pretty sure that Mao is a traitor, but closer to Victoria than the Russians.

Umm...come again? Victoria's not even in this game...

2. Crop yield is food, cus they've got food in the parenthesis.
3. Mfg goods is production, because there's production in the parenthesis

Understood about food now, but Mfg Goods...is that related to stuff you build, or just total number of hammers?

 

[Ceritoglu]

"Umm...come again? Victoria's not even in this game..."

England have two leaders, one is Elizabeth the other is Victoria.

Just look here if you want to see the leaders on Civ 4
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/civilizations/

 

[ArmoredCavalry]

Kinda funny how your're #1 in land despite the lack of exploration. But how does your GNP in the graph rank you differently on the stats screen? graph says you're 3rd with known civs and stats say you're 7th

 

[jerVL/kg]

But how does your GNP in the graph rank you differently on the stats screen? graph says you're 3rd with known civs and stats say you're 7th

Beats me.

As for land, I'm surprised as well, especially since we own only 2 islands. But like I said before...Cyrus grows like a slime mold.

Some people are confused. England isn't even in this game.

Ok...next set of turns comin' up soon! But first, in words of Bill Maher, it's time for NEW RULES:

1) Tech trading is allowed, but only for NON-MILITARY techs.
"Non-Military" is defined as a technology which provides military units, and NO other benefit.
For instance, Construction gives War Elephants & Catapults, but also enables bridge building (not that we need it) and Colosseums, so it's defined as Non-Military.
Likewise, Feudalism gives Longbows, but also enables Vassalage (military) and Serfdom (non-military) so that's okay too.
OTOH, Horseback Riding is purely military. So is Gunpowder (muskets/cavalry/etc.) so those are out.
If we require a Military technology to move forward, we MUST research it ourselves.

2) Tech trading is only allowed if the AI civ initiates the trade first. We are not required to accept their offer, however...we may negotiate all we want.

3) Trading for resources is still allowed as we see fit. Open Borders, Def Pacts etc. are not allowed.

Everyone clear? Ok...

 

[jerVL/kg]

1300AD: First order of business...complete the trade w/Peter. Since he initiated the trade during the last session, this is legal.

TRADE: Code of Laws / Currency / 30gp = Monarchy / Theology.

Check with Mao, he's still down Alphabet, but only offers us gold for it. We'll see what he gives us when DR arrives. Oh speaking of which...

Our cash flow was 188/-6 without Currency, now it's 188/-2. Fat lotta good that did us!!! At 40% science, Divine Right is due in *25* turns, ouch!! However, the next biggest techs (Philo/Civil Service) will take 14 turns, and the rest between 6-7 turns. I see no reason to abandon the DR Beeline, so let's go for it; hopefully as plantations come online and cities start to grow (esp. w/THG) that number will drop substantially.

Here's the build queue:
PERSEPOLIS = Settler (1) / Hindu Missionary (2) / Market (7)
PASARGADAE = Jewish Temple (1) / Worker (6) -- could use J.Monastery or Market
SUSA = Hanging Gardens (8)
ARBELA = Library (3) / Worker (6)
GORDIUM (size 1) = Lighthouse (13) / Courthouse (27) -- ouch!! Gotta chop that jungle!
TARSUS = Work Boat (1) / Courthouse (8) -- has -7 distance penalty!!
BACTRA (size 1) = Courthouse (80) / Granary (20) / Lighthouse (20, half built) -- has -4 distance cost, despite being further away than Tarsus (???) -- chopping will greatly speed up build time

Ok...hit enter...

 

[jerVL/kg]

1325AD: DR suddenly drops to 19 turns @ 186/-1, must be due to city growth.
Susa will soon be unhappy, so move Immortal towards city to quell riots.

1350AD: Hmm....


No biggie. Let's just stay the course, shall we?

Bump science up to 50%, now 188/-11, DR in 14 (BIG improvement)
Can do 60% @ 188/-20, too rich for my blood though, only shaves one turn from DR and we've lost Islam anyway.

1375AD: Hindu Missionary to Susa FAILS!!!


Notice a Mao Galley in our northern waters. YES!! INVASION!! MASSIVE STACKS OF ELEPHANTS AND....oh wait. It's a mere Settler party:


How disappointing.

Cash flow is now 174/-15!!! Ain't gonna happen...let's open up Persepolis and see what these buttons do...

Ok. Max Commerce drops deficit to -11, but also DR from 13 to 14 turns.
Add Max Research, now -13 & DR in 13...but Market drops from 8 to 15 turns.
Add MAX PRODUCTION, now -14, Market in 8, DR still in 13. We're working 2 Scientists, no Prophets, as specialists, and the only thing I see out of tune is were no longer working a slowly maturing cottage (which should belong to Pasargadae, but somehow Pers stole it away!) Sounds good enough to me, so we go with it.

Hanging Gardens is now in whipping range!!! Ok, here's the deal. Whenever I get this close to a Wonder and can rush it, I save the game at the end of each turn (actually I do that anyway, as a matter of habit), and if the AI beats me to that Wonder next turn, reload & rush it. Some may call it cheating, but frankly, I do not. This is why Save Games were created, people!! (I would have also done this with Sistine Chapel & Theology, but Sistine wasn't whippable yet, and you can't whip technologies...)

Rice connected! Arbela no longer stinky! In fact, they have health to burn now! However, they have no more workable tiles (thanks to jungle) so move worker from rice to grassland hill & begin building a mine.

1400AD: Our 8th and (possibly) final city, Sidon, is founded:


Okay, first the game was recommending the grassland hill to the east, now it's recommending *between* the two hills. MAKE UP YOUR MIND STUPID GAME!! Anyway, that spot seems as good as any, so I build there:



Cash flow plummets to 160/-21!!! Drop science to 40%, now 160/-9, DR due in 13 turns (was 11, but actually saved 2 turns by using 50% science)

Check trades...Mao still has no Alphabet, but only offers chump change.
Monty will now trade Drama, because Peter has it. We only have Mono to give Monty (snicker) and nothing to give Peter. Peter has met Mao by now. Sally needs Theo & Calendar, but we're still his worst enemy. Sally has Deer but won't trade, so initiate trade of Cow to Sally for 3gp/turn. Cash flow now 160/-6, looking better.

THG due in 3 turns!!!

1425AD: Ahem....


Yeah, you really think so? NOT!!!!

Research: TIME TRAVEL -- due in -1 turn!
(In other words...RELOAD...)

 

[jerVL/kg]

1400AD: [dizzy...shaky...vision blurry...feel a strange sense of deja vu...]
What was I just doing? Oh yeah...the Hanging Gardens needs to be whipped. It will cost a whopping 5 population, but my intuition is telling me that the AI's just about to beat us to this critical wonder...can't explain why...so LET'S WHIP THAT SUCKER!!



I say WHIP IT!!! WHIP IT GOOD!!!

(Speaking of which, I recently discovered something absolutely horrifying: DEVO 2.0)
I know it's Disney, but not even I thought they would sink this low. Mark Mothersbaugh must be rolling over in his grave, and he's NOT EVEN DEAD YET!!
WARNING: Link may cause extreme nausea, migrane headaches, and possible outbreaks of herpes.

What was I saying? Oh yeah. Click ENTER...

1425AD: "Creatures kissing in the rain, shapeless in the dark again...Catching haloes on the moon, gives my hands the shapes of angels...In the heat of the night, the animals scream...In the heat of the night, walking into a dream...FALL FALL FALL FALL into the walls, jump jump out of time...FALL FALL FALL FALL out of the sky, cover my face as the animals cry...In the hanging garden...In the Hanging Gardens."



(Coolest movie EVAH!!! Except maybe for 3GD...)

Nice little pop boost, but does little to our bottom line, unfortunately. Also, Gordium is now starving. the lighthouse so as not to waste the free pop point from THG...



Monty & Peter are still sniffing about. Wassamatter? Can't find the Pit Stop guys? Just follow the Hippies!!!

Sidon will take 39 turns to finish its lighthouse, which is ridiculous, so build a worker instead (due in 12) Still LOTS AND LOTS of jungle to chop!!

Mao has pikes now. Gonna waste our Immortals, huh??
However, I decide to cancel the Incense/Ivory trade and make it Incense/Dye instead, which just came online. Mao has excess gp to trade, but will wait to hook up silks first.

1450AD: Pasargadae finishes worker, starting to feel cultural pressure from Sally, so starts Jewish Monastery. BTW, Sally has joined The Amazing Caravel Race:



Can't find the Pit Stop either, Sally?? Besides, you're late. You better pray to find the Fast Forward before anyone else! Oh, wait. They took those out.

Cash flow now 139/-11, DR still in 7 turns. We have an excess Warrior in Pers, so move him to Arbela for transport to Tarsus Island for when Hangzhou finally flips...

MM Pasar, add Priest as specialist, cash flow now -10, while Monastery build time drops from 5 to 7 turns, but that's okay. (I'm starting to realize this city was very badly placed...thought I'd trade some ocean for the grassland tile, but Pers stole it!! )

The road network to Susa sucks, so workers fix it:




1500AD: Monty asks...for HELP!! He wants Mono (again, snicker) and since he asked nicely, I have no choice but to give it to him. Eww Monty, at least take that feather out of your brow when you kiss me...

Now Monty is PLEASED with us! He'll never invade us now...

Archer finished in Arbela, move to Sidon. Saladin's Golden Age begins!
We are now #3 in score!!!!!