Science Department: Where to?

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

After the most recent TC, we have acquired many new technologies. If this were Rik doing the update, he'd make a fuss over the two new wonders we can build and the new units we've acquired as well as the new defensive structure we can erect, but I'm not Rik (Pyramids, Oracle, Swordsman, Horseman, Wall- in that order)
I'm just here to bring up a conversation about what to research next. The next TC is Monday, 1900EST.

TECHS WE'VE DISCOVERED:
We have recently acquired Mysticism, Alphabet, Warrior Code, Masonry and Horse Back Riding, as well as researching Iron Working.

TECHS WE CAN NOW RESEARCH::
Thanks to these new discoveries, we can now research Polytheism, Writing and Math. As always, the Science Department is championing heading towards Literature, and we are one step away through Writing.

Before I turn over the floor, a quick reminder: This is Vanilla Civ. Vanilla does not have the Philosophy gambit.

Discuss!

 

[Rik Meleet]

We are still going for Writing. And we will for the coming 9 turns or so. According to this poll the tech to research after that is Literature.
But people change, situations change, opportunites change.
Do you still want to follow the outcome of that poll (literature after writing) or do you want a new poll ?

For your information; a poll will be held, either for "continue literature ? Yes/No" or "what to research after writing?"

It's up to you to decide what poll you want.

 

[Strider]

We should continue with Writing and literature after that. We should also get a pre-build for the GL going fairly soon (or atleast start planning for one).

 

[TimBentley]

I think the literature path sounds good, since we probably can obtain polytheism and mathematics through trading or the Great Library, since the AI usually takes a while to research literature. Regardless, I think a poll should be held asking for the technology to be researched after writing.

 

[Cyc]

We already had poll results showing that citizens wanted the Monarchy path. We are in dire need of a new government. One that will enable us to build a strong defensive nation that can grow and prosper. I believe you need to repoll for the next Tech and allow us the opportunity to research Polytheism and Monarchy. I do not believe you should be doing these double Tech polls.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Am I critisised for double polls ?? Meaning I am critisised for allowing the DP to not be forced to stop a turnchat because of lack of Science-instructions ? Am I critisised for allowing the citizens to vote for 2 techs instead of 1, so they can lay out a path ???

Have I not indicated that a poll after writing was possible and favored by the Science Minister ??
So why all the complaints about the science-department? It gives you all the choices you wanted, it even gives you choices for far into the future and it gives you the opportunity to change your previously made choices in case you've changed your mind.

What Cyc is referring to is an ancient old poll indicating a path to Monarchy. But a chose path shouldn't block sidesteps of it nor be the only voice you'll have in this important matter. If the citizens really want this path they'll vote accordingly, if they prefer a sidestep or a different path, why should we deny them the opportunity to do so. The Ministry of science is a Democratic department.
What you choose is followed, but we give you the right to change your mind.

The science motto: Today's truths aren't neccesarilly tomorrow's truths.

 

[Civanator]

I say we go for Monarchy and switch so we can build up a defense for future threats, knowing Babylon will probably threaten us sometime soon.

 

[snipelfritz]

I definately think we should follow through with Writing and Literature. We don't need another poll. It was the Will of the People.

I also agree with Strider. We should start thought on a pre-build for the GL.

 

[Immortal]

The GL is useless, we stand to gain a paltry 6 tech estimate by the time the GL is completed while being solidly locked in 3rd place for tech research. We nearly lead our local civs due to trading, we require not to leech techs from a wonder, we need commerce of knowledge!

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Trade Department here.......

In case no one has noticed, we have a two-tech lead on every known civ now. Therefore I am a bit bewildered by the public support of Great Library. Judging by a recent Culture poll, we should really be most interested in the Pyramids right now. Yet Masonry only scared up a few votes in the last Science poll.

So the fickle public leaves us scratching our heads again. Do we not know which tech corresponds with which Wonders? Or are we really just that bipolar? A bit of consistency, please......

As far as I can see, Cyc, Rik is keeping his word and offering to post another poll. And I believe that we should, although I am not sure what good it would do. It seems that everyone here is walking lockstep toward Literature, coveting a Wonder that we won't even need.

 

[Immortal]

No, we dont need it.

 

[invy]

Most wanted tech is Literature and most wanted wonder Pyramids. It may not be so logical but thats what the people decided.

Going for literature doesn't have any influence on building Pyramids, if Great Library fans want it then make new poll to see if citizens changed their opinion and do they now want Great Library?

At the moment Pyramids is a winner 26 votes, Great Library 17.
Next tech is Literature and if we lose race to Pyramids first switch is to Great Librarary.

I think this can't be confusing to anyone.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Anyway; there is not much time; Turnchats follow up on eachother rapidly.
I've posted a poll on it.

 

[Provolution]

I think that the wonder poll is obsolete, we have so many foodplain cities that will grow fast anyways, that we may probaly need more happiness wonders. Surely, Gems and Wines only give 2 happiness. We need a new wonder poll.

 

[blackheart]

Why don't we just go for Republic? We can stick with that gov throughout the entire game and not waste turns changing govs. Republic is also much better than monarchy if we intend to have a large empire.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

@blackheart, the Japanese are a Religious civ, so will only need one turn to switch to a new government.

 

[Provolution]

Blackheart, your proposal carries no knowledge or valdidity, the very reason we CAN go for monarchy (which gives us one more military police per city), is that as a religious CIV only needs 1 turn to change regime. Monarchy is the best option we have now, we annoyed Romans and Cautious Babylonians on the border.

 

[Cyc]

Most wanted tech is Literature and most wanted wonder Pyramids. It may not be so logical but thats what the people decided.

And the most wanted goverment upgrade is to Monarchy. As DZ states there will be no lost turns in our transition to this flourishing form of government. We are surrounded by agressive tribes that are already aware they are losing scientifically. This means they will increase their power base and use a militaristic means to repress us. Going for a Republic would take a lot more time than we have to spare. We have NO Wonder-building city. We need the benefit of irrigation and gold rushing. Now...not after some rose garden walk to Literature. We have wandered research-wise long enough. Our scientific lead is due to trade, not research. I want libraries just as much as the next citizen, but let us attain that level of education and culture as a Monarchy, not following a Despot.

I think this can't be confusing to anyone.

You seem to be confused, Invy. Where are you planning to build the Pyramids? And when? Our mountain city will not grow, our Eastern cities are building Settlers, leaving our port city to build military (if it can muster anything). Which one would you have stop production? Our expansion area seems limited, so the Pyramids' worth diminishes in that regard, it has been shown that the Great Library will bring limited benefit, the only real problem we have at this point is happiness. That's funny. Any Wonder that would help in that regard is found on the path to Monarchy.
Just thought I'd help with your confusion.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

After reading the last two posts about the Pyramids, I too feel that a re-poll on the topic is necessary. Looks like I am a bit fickle myself.

Actually, being the first nation to consider the Hanging Gardens would be a great thing. Build that in a river city with mass Flood Plains, like the ones up north, and we could have quite a Settler/Worker factory.

 

[blackheart]

I know religious civs take only one turn to change govs, but that is still a turn wasted. Republic would be better in the long term too because of increased worker productivity and lower corruption.

I would rather have a strong shield harvesting infrastructure to build units faster than having military as MP