Scientists???

[jonnyincognito]

Hey all,


I've seen mention on a number of threads about turning citizens to scientists, among other things. How do you do this? All I know how to do is turn them into entertainers by giving them no tile to work. Am I missing something? I'm playing Civ Complete (Vanilla with PTW and C3C). I can't find anything in the manuals about scientists.

Also, what about taxes and tax collectors? I've read mention of that on the forums too. Is this anything above and beyond reducing your science and happiness sliders to zero?


Joshua

 

[Theoden]

To change a specialist citizen simply click on your entertainer. It will then change to a taxman, click again and it will become a scientist.

 

[jonnyincognito]

Thanks! Sure would have been nice to find this somewhere in the manual

What benifits do the tax collector and the scientist give exactly? The entertainer makes one citizen content correct?


Joshua

 

[Blackbird_SR-71]

Tax Collector: Gives 2 gpt
Scientist: Gives 3 science points

 

[Scuffer]

They are exceeding useful for corrupt cities that have grown to their maximum size and still have excess production, especially in conquests. Click low food tiles, and convert them scientists/taxmen, and you will get at least something useful from that city.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

They are exceeding useful for corrupt cities that have grown to their maximum size and still have excess production, especially in conquests. Click low food tiles, and convert them scientists/taxmen, and you will get at least something useful from that city.

More than something usefull, if you conquer up to domination limmit, ICS the whole area and irrigate/railroad everything, you can have so many scientists that you will research industrial/modern age techs in 4 turns with a low or even 0 science slider.

 

[Rohili]

You can turn them to civil police too, somewhat later in the game I think. They reduce corruption.

 

[Turner]

Policemen at Nationalism, and Civil Engineers at Replaceable Parts. It shoulb be noted that this is only in C3C.

 

[jonnyincognito]

What does a policeman and engineer do??? Also, does the scientist get any benifit from buildings? Does the library increase the 3 'science points' by 50% for example?


Joshua

 

[Theoden]

Policeman decreases both corruption and waste by 1. Engineer contributes 2 shields as long as you don't build units.
Scientists do not get any bonuses from buildings like libraries.

 

[jonnyincognito]

Policeman decreases both corruption and waste by 1. Engineer contributes 2 shields as long as you don't build units.
Scientists do not get any bonuses from buildings like libraries.

So to gain a bonus from buildings you have, you have to at least put 10% of the money you make into science? *nods* Would it be better to use a tax collector and then put more gold into science if you had more then one science increasing building instead of making a scientist? Does a scientists 3 units = 3 gold spent on science? Just curious, trying to get the most out of my towns now that I have some idea what Im doing


Joshua

 

[Renata]

So to gain a bonus from buildings you have, you have to at least put 10% of the money you make into science? *nods*

Yes. Similarly, marketplaces and banks don't do you any good if you don't have any income going to cash.

Would it be better to use a tax collector and then put more gold into science if you had more then one science increasing building instead of making a scientist?

Depends how corrupt the city is. For example, a single citizen working a roaded, mined grassland river tile in your capital, with marketplace and bank, in Republic, makes 3*2=6 gold per turn. (Assuming you're running pure cash on the lux sliders.) With marketplace only, or in monarchy, you'd still get 4 or 5gpt. Turning that citizen into a taxman makes only 2 gold per turn (plus you lose that citizen's food and shields), so clearly this would be a bad idea. On the other hand, if a town is so corrupt that it's making on one shield per turn and one or two commerce per turn from all it's citizens put together, then the taxman is a good bargain. You gain 2 gold per turn and probably lose nothing but the food. If that town's already at maximum size with a food surplus, you lose nothing at all.

Specialists are of most use in corrupt towns and cities. You should never have them in productive cities except in a few special situations.

Does a scientists 3 units = 3 gold spent on science? Just curious, trying to get the most out of my towns now that I have some idea what Im doing

I'm not sure quite what you're asking here. A scientist gives you three "free" beakers per turn. You lose nothing in the deal but the production from the tile the scientists would have been working -- as described above, if the town's corrupt, you essentially lose nothing at all.

Or are you just asking if they're equivalent: 3 gold directed toward science yield 3 beakers? More or less. The multiplying effects of marketplaces, libraries and such complicates things a bit.

Renata

 

[Grogs]

Yep, specialists are great in corrupted cities. If you start trying to take over the world, you don't have to capture/build too many cities before they all become completely corrupted out (only produce 1 shield and 1 gold.) Luckily, food isn't subject to corruption, so you can grow these cities pretty quickly and use the citizens to pad your treasury or help with research.

Another use for the scientists is the 'one scientist gambit.' The strategy is based off the fact that there is a maximum time it takes to research a technology: 50 in C3C, 40 in Vanilla and ?PTW? It's not too common in the ancient age to find a technology that takes you 50 turns to research even at 100% science. Given that it will take no more than 50 turns no matter how little you put into research, you can convert a single citizen to a scientist and use that 3 gpt to research the tech in 50 turns.

 

[jonnyincognito]

Or are you just asking if they're equivalent: 3 gold directed toward science yield 3 beakers? More or less. The multiplying effects of marketplaces, libraries and such complicates things a bit.

Renata

Yeah, pretty much the point I was asking about. Does a tax collector's money gain a bonus from improvements? IF it does, then I was thinking that it would be better to use tax collectors with commerce increasing improvements vs. a scientist because a tax collector could produce more gold which could be converted to science via the slider which would also be increased by improvements, having the net effect of making the tax collector a better option then the scientist for research.

I hear you about the corruption, was just thinking about large cities and places that well, basically don't produce much

Joshua

 

[Renata]

Yeah, pretty much the point I was asking about. Does a tax collector's money gain a bonus from improvements?

Like someone said up near the top, no it does not.

Renata

 

[jonnyincognito]

Like someone said up near the top, no it does not.

Renata

Ah, I saw only that scientists aren't affected by improvements. Should I take it that no specialists are then? *nods*


Joshua

 

[Jason Fliegel]

One other tip about specialists -- if you use governors to place your citizens, be aware that the governor will use entertainers, even when another specialist would do. For example, if you have three happy and four unhappy citizens, the governor will make one of the citizens an entertainer, giving you four happy and two unhappy citizens. But if you were to make that specialist a scientist or taxman, you'd still stay out of anarchy with three each of happy and unhappy citizens, but you'd also get an extra 3 beakers or 2 gold.