[UNIT] Scout Mystery.

[Somebody613]

Yeah, sorry, thought it was funny to name ALL such threads this way, loool.
Anyways, it IS a mystery.
When you start, you sooner or later (or immediately) get a Scout or a few.
That is NOT the mystery, of course.
The real mystery is that this Scout can [Remove Stay the Hand] and then go [Hunting].
Literally.
But any OTHER Scout born LATER - CAN'T.
So which of the two is the Bug?
Weird...

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, sorry, thought it was funny to name ALL such threads this way, loool.
Anyways, it IS a mystery.
When you start, you sooner or later (or immediately) get a Scout or a few.
That is NOT the mystery, of course.
The real mystery is that this Scout can [Remove Stay the Hand] and then go [Hunting].
Literally.
But any OTHER Scout born LATER - CAN'T.
So which of the two is the Bug?
Weird...

Wanderers are recon units but because there are no official hunting units in play yet, they can attack if Stay the Hand is removed. Perhaps we should remove their ability to attack at all? Now that chasers are more valuable and come up a bit earlier, that might be more appropriate? What does everyone else think about this?

 

[Somebody613]

Wanderers are recon units but because there are no official hunting units in play yet, they can attack if Stay the Hand is removed. Perhaps we should remove their ability to attack at all? Now that chasers are more valuable and come up a bit earlier, that might be more appropriate? What does everyone else think about this?

I'm just thinking that it's beyond confusing to see the same unit behave differently, lol.
Not to mention how REALISTIC "Prehistoric Scouts" SHOULD be able to "Hunt" anyways.
Hunting itself is such a huge game changing mechanic to a degree that you should ignore the vanilla game start "rules" to begin with.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm just thinking that it's beyond confusing to see the same unit behave differently, lol.

It's not the same unit. Only the Wanderer, among all the kinds of recon units there are, since there aren't hunters yet, can attack.

One of the things that makes hunters necessary is that recon units are envisioned as usually avoiding getting aggressive with any other kind of unit at all costs.

 

[Fermongu]

But how do you get experience to recon units, to make use of promos, if they can't attack?

 

[Thunderbrd]

But how do you get experience to recon units, to make use of promos, if they can't attack?

I have considered making goody huts and tile reveals give xp to recon. You are right that it's a little difficult at the moment, unless things do attack them and they survive. I've also considered giving them a bonus amount of XP when they successfully withdraw.

 

[Fermongu]

I like those ideas a lot

 

[Yudishtira]

Yeah, sorry, thought it was funny to name ALL such threads this way, loool.
Anyways, it IS a mystery.
When you start, you sooner or later (or immediately) get a Scout or a few.
That is NOT the mystery, of course.
The real mystery is that this Scout can [Remove Stay the Hand] and then go [Hunting].
Literally.
But any OTHER Scout born LATER - CAN'T.
So which of the two is the Bug?
Weird...

Firstly, you should never get a Scout to start with.

So specifically what kind of Scouts are you talking about, that you get without training them?

The expectation is that any unit that becomes a Scout also becomes Defend Only.

However, if this is not the case (and I'm still sceptical), I would take the minimalist (aka lazy) position that neither is a bug.

 

[Somebody613]

Actually, I must retract HALF of my point now.
The "Scout" I had in mind, was actually a Wanderer all along.
But it does START as a "Scout" - you can't Hunt without removing Stay the Hand, unlike with other "normal" units.
And I did get the answer, but I still find it WEIRD, lol.
Thanks, though.
But maybe you should just separate Wanderer into its own mix-match Class or something?
And let it Hunt from the start, not after making totally counter-intuitive changes on the user-end (many people usually don't even CARE to click that button to begin with).
Would be much less confusing than what it is now.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Actually, I must retract HALF of my point now.
The "Scout" I had in mind, was actually a Wanderer all along.
But it does START as a "Scout" - you can't Hunt without removing Stay the Hand, unlike with other "normal" units.
And I did get the answer, but I still find it WEIRD, lol.
Thanks, though.
But maybe you should just separate Wanderer into its own mix-match Class or something?
And let it Hunt from the start, not after making totally counter-intuitive changes on the user-end (many people usually don't even CARE to click that button to begin with).
Would be much less confusing than what it is now.

I've gotta review why they end up with Stay the Hand as default and see if it's really necessary. I'm not a fan of having to turn it off with them either but it was a side effect of other AI rationale.