Hi all,
In this post I'd like to offer some feedback on the early game techs added in TAM. My comments are based on starting a game with the huge map at marathon speed. I'm posting it because it may help in the play balancing process.
Hunting: One of the first things I noticed about my first game of TAM is that there doesn't seem to be any good reason to build scouts. Yes, they move faster and are useful for revealing the map. But there aren't any goodie huts (at least I didn't find any), so there's no real reason to explore. And if you don't start off with hunting, then by the time you've researched it your warriors will have done a fairly good job of exploring the area around your starting city (at least at marathon speed), and all you really need from exploration is a good idea of where to put your second city.
So it seems to me the game is forcing players to avoid Hunting in favor of other techs. Unless you have a nearby resource that needs a camp, the only reason you'd want to take Hunting would be to get archers early. This is a shame, as each tech should really have some sort of payoff that makes it worth taking, regardless of what it leads to down the road. (And in the real world it is likely that hunting was one of the first skills developed by early man just about anywhere. There must have been a reason for that!)
So it might be a good idea to do something to make this tech a bit more worth taking. I can think of a couple ways to do this. You could put in some goodie huts, but disable all tech rewards (since tech rewards can be very unbalancing in the early game and plain ridiculous in the late game). Or you can buff the scout a bit so it will be more worth building; perhaps it could start with a fairly reliable withdraw ability? That would at least increase its chances of survival.
Generally speaking, the new early techs could all use a bit of reworking to give them more of a payoff. As it is, it seems there merely there to delay the start of the game. Each should be worth building in its own right. So without further ado, let's look at the other techs.
Tools: They're needed to build workers, yes, great idea! But as this tech doesn't allow any tile improvements, there's no reason to build any workers until you get other technologies. This doesn't make any real-world sense. A civilization creates a workforce because it has a job for them to do; so any civilization capable of producing workers must, by definition, have some sort of task for them to perform.
As it is, if you play a civ that starts with this tech you feel like you're getting gypped, when it should feel like a blessing!
Would it be possible to make the workers able to contribute, say, an extra couple hammers worth of production to a city? So you could (for example) park the workers on the city and have them "Fortify" which would cause them to add production to that city. That would give the workers a reason for existing (however abstract) even when there's no other tech to justify their presence. If that's not possible, then all (or at least most) of the other first-tier techs must include as a reward something for workers to do.
Pastoralism: This one is tough. It doesn't really do anything but act as a requirement for other skills. Yes, it reveals flax; but that's only really worth anything if you start with this tech. If you don't, then by the time you research it you've already built your first city and it's too late to take into account the location of the flax.
This tech really needs a job for workers to do. Perhaps workers can create an early version of the farm? This would have the following attributes: it takes as long as a farm to build; it will give +1 food on the improved tile; it will not give any bonus yields from resources; and it can never be irrigated. Basically it would have to be upgraded to a real farm eventually, but it would help fill in the gap in the early game (especially at marathon speed).
As for what to call this proto-farm, I'd be tempted to call it a garden. But that's already being used for something else. Obviously this would need a bit of thought and discussion.
Tribal Law: This is an interesting tech which I was happy to see in the early lineup. And although I thought I'd have a hard time thinking of jobs for workers to do, it's actually not that difficult.
If it's possible to have workers add production to a city as I suggested above for the Tools tech, then perhaps they could also be used to add income to the city? This would abstractly represent a situation where the tribal law has a particularly commercial bent (which could happen if a city's rulers by law get a cut of all large barter transactions).
As for tile improvements, perhaps workers could build an early version of the cottage. It would give one extra gold on a tile, but would never increase as a cottage does. Eventually it would have to be replaced by a cottage or something else that's more productive. Perhaps this would be a good use for the "tribal village" improvement which shows up in the Civilopedia but does not seem to be used for anything.
Ceremonial Burial: For once I can't think of any job for workers that would go along with this tech. We've already got a building that seems to cover the results of the tech pretty well. (Unfortunately this does not bode well for Babylonia, which starts out with this tech and Tools. It seems we're stuck with a civ that can create a workforce but has no reason to do so. We can rationalize it by saying that the workforce is created to build elaborate burial facilities, but is left at odd ends when such such work is not ongoing.)
However, I must say the ability to build a cemetery does not seem like much of a payoff for this tech, especially in the early game when health is not a problem for most civs. This is another case where you feel like you've been gypped if you start off with this tech; and if you don't, then you're in no hurry to research it (unless you want something it leads to).
I'd like to see a bit more reward from building a cemetery, and there is a very obvious solution: culture! Burying the dead with reverence is an act that's fraught with cultural significance, and is arguably the starting point for much of man's religious and artistic development. Perhaps (especially since this is ceremonial burial we're talking about) it would be a good idea if the cemetary gave +1 culture as well as +1 health?
The problem is that the cemetery would end up stealing the thunder of the obelisk, which is meant to be the first big culture-booster in the game. Well, it's something to think about.
But wait ... perhaps there is a job for our workers to do, even here. Would it be possible to park workers on the city and have them produce culture? Each worker would produce +1 culture per turn parked. This would be an abstract way of representing portions of a civ's workforce being tied up in rites and ceremonies connected with the burial and remembrance of the dead (and eventually with other religious and artistic pursuits, such as the playing of video games
). It would be a big boost to a civilization's culture, especially in the early game, but it would be temporary.
The Wheel: Here it is, the one first-tier tech that actually gives the workers something to do! Fortunate indeed is the civilization that begins with both The Wheel and Tools, for that civilization can build roads to, er, roads to, um, well, they can build roads, anyway.
This is one of my big pet peeves about the Civilization tech tree. The original civ game assumes that this is one of the first technologies that man ever developed, mainly because we all learn that in grade school. I mean, we've all seen the cartoons and sketches where the caveman is carving a wheel out of stone because it seems like a good idea.
It seems to me this is way wrong. Like a workforce, the wheel is something man wouldn't have created unless he already had a job for it to do. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention! Although I haven't really looked at the research into this subject, I suspect that in most cases man came up with the wheel as an outgrowth of agriculture, for it is in the transportation of large loads of grain and such that mankind first encountered a regular need for this machine. I really don't see the wheel being developed before agriculture, and certainly not as the first technology a civilization invents!
If it were up to me, I'd make this at least a second tier tech, if not actually require agriculture. But that's just me.
Well, these are my thoughts on the need for more payoff in the early game technologies in TAM. I hope they're of some use in balancing the game so it's enjoyable even in the early stages when played at marathon speed.
In this post I'd like to offer some feedback on the early game techs added in TAM. My comments are based on starting a game with the huge map at marathon speed. I'm posting it because it may help in the play balancing process.
Hunting: One of the first things I noticed about my first game of TAM is that there doesn't seem to be any good reason to build scouts. Yes, they move faster and are useful for revealing the map. But there aren't any goodie huts (at least I didn't find any), so there's no real reason to explore. And if you don't start off with hunting, then by the time you've researched it your warriors will have done a fairly good job of exploring the area around your starting city (at least at marathon speed), and all you really need from exploration is a good idea of where to put your second city.
So it seems to me the game is forcing players to avoid Hunting in favor of other techs. Unless you have a nearby resource that needs a camp, the only reason you'd want to take Hunting would be to get archers early. This is a shame, as each tech should really have some sort of payoff that makes it worth taking, regardless of what it leads to down the road. (And in the real world it is likely that hunting was one of the first skills developed by early man just about anywhere. There must have been a reason for that!)
So it might be a good idea to do something to make this tech a bit more worth taking. I can think of a couple ways to do this. You could put in some goodie huts, but disable all tech rewards (since tech rewards can be very unbalancing in the early game and plain ridiculous in the late game). Or you can buff the scout a bit so it will be more worth building; perhaps it could start with a fairly reliable withdraw ability? That would at least increase its chances of survival.
Generally speaking, the new early techs could all use a bit of reworking to give them more of a payoff. As it is, it seems there merely there to delay the start of the game. Each should be worth building in its own right. So without further ado, let's look at the other techs.
Tools: They're needed to build workers, yes, great idea! But as this tech doesn't allow any tile improvements, there's no reason to build any workers until you get other technologies. This doesn't make any real-world sense. A civilization creates a workforce because it has a job for them to do; so any civilization capable of producing workers must, by definition, have some sort of task for them to perform.
As it is, if you play a civ that starts with this tech you feel like you're getting gypped, when it should feel like a blessing!
Would it be possible to make the workers able to contribute, say, an extra couple hammers worth of production to a city? So you could (for example) park the workers on the city and have them "Fortify" which would cause them to add production to that city. That would give the workers a reason for existing (however abstract) even when there's no other tech to justify their presence. If that's not possible, then all (or at least most) of the other first-tier techs must include as a reward something for workers to do.
Pastoralism: This one is tough. It doesn't really do anything but act as a requirement for other skills. Yes, it reveals flax; but that's only really worth anything if you start with this tech. If you don't, then by the time you research it you've already built your first city and it's too late to take into account the location of the flax.
This tech really needs a job for workers to do. Perhaps workers can create an early version of the farm? This would have the following attributes: it takes as long as a farm to build; it will give +1 food on the improved tile; it will not give any bonus yields from resources; and it can never be irrigated. Basically it would have to be upgraded to a real farm eventually, but it would help fill in the gap in the early game (especially at marathon speed).
As for what to call this proto-farm, I'd be tempted to call it a garden. But that's already being used for something else. Obviously this would need a bit of thought and discussion.
Tribal Law: This is an interesting tech which I was happy to see in the early lineup. And although I thought I'd have a hard time thinking of jobs for workers to do, it's actually not that difficult.
If it's possible to have workers add production to a city as I suggested above for the Tools tech, then perhaps they could also be used to add income to the city? This would abstractly represent a situation where the tribal law has a particularly commercial bent (which could happen if a city's rulers by law get a cut of all large barter transactions).
As for tile improvements, perhaps workers could build an early version of the cottage. It would give one extra gold on a tile, but would never increase as a cottage does. Eventually it would have to be replaced by a cottage or something else that's more productive. Perhaps this would be a good use for the "tribal village" improvement which shows up in the Civilopedia but does not seem to be used for anything.
Ceremonial Burial: For once I can't think of any job for workers that would go along with this tech. We've already got a building that seems to cover the results of the tech pretty well. (Unfortunately this does not bode well for Babylonia, which starts out with this tech and Tools. It seems we're stuck with a civ that can create a workforce but has no reason to do so. We can rationalize it by saying that the workforce is created to build elaborate burial facilities, but is left at odd ends when such such work is not ongoing.)
However, I must say the ability to build a cemetery does not seem like much of a payoff for this tech, especially in the early game when health is not a problem for most civs. This is another case where you feel like you've been gypped if you start off with this tech; and if you don't, then you're in no hurry to research it (unless you want something it leads to).
I'd like to see a bit more reward from building a cemetery, and there is a very obvious solution: culture! Burying the dead with reverence is an act that's fraught with cultural significance, and is arguably the starting point for much of man's religious and artistic development. Perhaps (especially since this is ceremonial burial we're talking about) it would be a good idea if the cemetary gave +1 culture as well as +1 health?
The problem is that the cemetery would end up stealing the thunder of the obelisk, which is meant to be the first big culture-booster in the game. Well, it's something to think about.
But wait ... perhaps there is a job for our workers to do, even here. Would it be possible to park workers on the city and have them produce culture? Each worker would produce +1 culture per turn parked. This would be an abstract way of representing portions of a civ's workforce being tied up in rites and ceremonies connected with the burial and remembrance of the dead (and eventually with other religious and artistic pursuits, such as the playing of video games
). It would be a big boost to a civilization's culture, especially in the early game, but it would be temporary.The Wheel: Here it is, the one first-tier tech that actually gives the workers something to do! Fortunate indeed is the civilization that begins with both The Wheel and Tools, for that civilization can build roads to, er, roads to, um, well, they can build roads, anyway.
This is one of my big pet peeves about the Civilization tech tree. The original civ game assumes that this is one of the first technologies that man ever developed, mainly because we all learn that in grade school. I mean, we've all seen the cartoons and sketches where the caveman is carving a wheel out of stone because it seems like a good idea.
It seems to me this is way wrong. Like a workforce, the wheel is something man wouldn't have created unless he already had a job for it to do. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention! Although I haven't really looked at the research into this subject, I suspect that in most cases man came up with the wheel as an outgrowth of agriculture, for it is in the transportation of large loads of grain and such that mankind first encountered a regular need for this machine. I really don't see the wheel being developed before agriculture, and certainly not as the first technology a civilization invents!
If it were up to me, I'd make this at least a second tier tech, if not actually require agriculture. But that's just me.
Well, these are my thoughts on the need for more payoff in the early game technologies in TAM. I hope they're of some use in balancing the game so it's enjoyable even in the early stages when played at marathon speed.
