Secret Sessions with Cathy - 2150 B.C.

[Octavian X]

Per previous polls, we've used a 0-turn session to trade Math to Russia for IW and 35g. We're now in a good position to make a deal with Hammurabi.

The special session save may be found here: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/DG4_BC2150_extra_turn.zip

The following are some possible deals with Hammurabi. I recommend deal 1, as it's the best payoff for the effort we've managed to put into this deal.

[b]We Want...	 We Offer...[/b]
Deal 1------------------------
Mysticism	 Iron Working
35g
Worker (Babylon)

Deal 2------------------------
35g		 Alphabet
Worker (Babylon)

Deal 3------------------------
Worker (Babylon) 27g

Since time is limited, I'll have to forgo my usual tradition of posting a poll. The apparent majority decision will be the one posted in the TC thread for Jan 26.

 

[Rik Meleet]

</beginedit> DZ has convinced me to like deal 3 the best. </endedit>

 

[Cyc]

Looks good to me too. Maybe we can pawn off Mysticism to Catherine later. I doubt we'll be able to put much work into building the Oracle.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I am usually not a big fan of trading off military tech, especially to a neighbor that also produces Bowmen. Why do we need Mysticism again?

Deal #3 is doable, unless someone can convince me of the merits of #1 or #2. Admittedly, I haven't seen the last 2 saves.

 

[Furiey]

Russia and Babylon will/meet next turn. If we leave them anything to trade between each other they will do so. Even deal 1 (the best option) will leave Russia with Alphabet and Maths to Trade for Mysticism from the Babylonians. I don’t think they will be able to trade both as Alphabet is required for Maths, and they only currently have 28 gold, so if we were in their position we wouldn’t be able to do it, but will that stop the AI? and once we do our trades the price will drop anyway. Perhaps we should consider trading Mysticism straight to the Russians, getting whatever we can for it, so that we get a small benefit, rather than letting Russia and Babylon benefit. This will put Russia on an even tech footing with us but leave Babylon with nothing to sell them.

We will have to check our trade advisor very regularly to see if there is an opportunity to trade Alphabet to Babylon. If we don’t do it, Russia will - the AI always seems to know when new deals are available.

 

[TheEndIsNear]

After looking at the save file, my proposal is: We give him Iron Working. He gives us Mysticism, 35 gold plus one worker. Seems more than fair to me.

 

[ybbor]

IIRC the worker will work at One Third the rate of our worers since ours are industrious

 

[Rik Meleet]

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
Why do we need Mysticism again?

Oh yeah, you're right. We nede Myst for a 20k victory, which seems undoable now. I'm going to change to deal 3.

 

[Cyc]

Yeah, I didn't really see the need for Mysticism either, but we will probably be able to sell it to Catherine for 28g (or so). That's better than Hammy getting the gold. If we do #1 and put everyone one even footing, go 100% Science to keep even, we'll still have plenty of gold to buy whatever Techs we want.

 

[Furiey]

We may not particularly need Mysticism any more, but if we don't do the deals and get the benefits ourselves, Russia and Babylon will deal direct. We need to make sure we get maximum out of both of them and leave them even - that's #1, then trade Mysticism to Cathy. We have the opportunity to leave them both with no gold and no techs that we haven't already got - let's take it.

Trade #1, then Mysticisim to Cathy

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Originally posted by Furiey
We may not particularly need Mysticism any more, but if we don't do the deals and get the benefits ourselves, Russia and Babylon will deal direct. We need to make sure we get maximum out of both of them and leave them even - that's #1, then trade Mysticism to Cathy. We have the opportunity to leave them both with no gold and no techs that we haven't already got - let's take it.

Trade #1, then Mysticisim to Cathy

I still don't like it, but I see Furiey's point here. I will most likely vote Abstain on this measure though I can see its merits.

 

[Chieftess]

Since 20K culture is out of the picture (It's still possible, but just barely), I say taking their worker will cripple them enough for us to expand. Also, check every turn for a Russian worker (just to try and cripple them).

 

[Octavian X]

I'm still in favor of deal 1. Remember, Catherine and Hammurabi are, according to the last reports, going to meet next turn. Catherine will teach the Babylonians Iron Working if we don't now.

If anything, it'll save us the research time that we'll inevitable spend on Mysticism.

 

[Octavian X]

I'm between a rock and a hard place now. The majority seem to favor simply buying Babylon's worker. However, that would mean I'd need Senate money, which I didn't have the forsight to request in advance.

My other problem is that I won't be online soon enough (due to school) to post instructions. Though I'd like this discussion to pan out further, it simply won't work for me.

This is my plan, then. I will file the 27g request with the Senate. Should the Senate approve, and post it's instructions in time, we will go through will deal three. Should the Senate withhold the gold, or fail to approve it in time, we will go through with deal one.

Call it an experiment of the Senatorial budget system. If this plays out badly, the powers of the purse should likely be placed in other hands, though that's another discussion.

 

[Will_518]

i support deal 3, but 1 looks excellent as well.

but would the senate have to vote on it? 'cos that would be stupidly slow. Shouldn't the demostic ministor or president have the power over the purse?

 

[truckingpete]

I think deal 3 is good..but is good..but deal 3 is a little better