Self-Determination: Include "Remove Sphere of Influence" Proposal (Draft)

[Stalker0]

this is a draft of a congress proposal I plan to submit, I wanted to circulate a draft version to get some initial feedback.

I have also included a poll. the poll is not official in anyway but gives me a feeling if I'm on the right track or if this needs a rethink.

Self-Determination: Include "Remove Sphere of Influence" Proposal

Self-Determination (Freedom T2 tenent) also provides its benefit when a CS is conquered, but instead of kept you use the option to "Remove Sphere of Influence" and then return the CS to normal control.


Rationale: Self-Determination currently works when any city is liberated, but I find this sphere of usage is often much smaller than it would appear on paper, and so I rarely find a use for this tenent. By adding in CS sphere removal, this gives you a fun way to fight other people's SOI while reaping a big reward yourself. This increases the general areas that you can use SD on, gives me a more chances to be useful.

 

[CppMaster]

Yes!

 

[azum4roll]

Removing sphere from the CS's current ally may make you stay at war with it (if the resulting ally is still at war with you). Can't you just easily grab the city a second time?

 

[Stalker0]

Removing sphere from the CS's current ally may make you stay at war with it (if the resulting ally is still at war with you). Can't you just easily grab the city a second time?

Self-Determination does give you an influence boost with all CS, so you might be able to flip that war CS out of war for you.

 

[azum4roll]

But what if you don't? The CS is defenseless, so you can get both a city AND the self-determination bonus at the same time.

 

[Stalker0]

But what if you don't? The CS is defenseless, so you can get both a city AND the self-determination bonus at the same time.

You can do this now if you wanted, you liberate a cs for the bonus, then declare war on it and take it. So this change wouldn’t add any exploit you can’t already do if you really wanted

 

[Anarcomu]

What about resetting influence in CS with something like 100 for the captor and -60 for everyone else ? This way, you make sure you become ally as soon as you "liberate" it.
Alternatively, liberating a CS this way could force an open-door on the CS (quite thematique with "self-determination" if you ask me).

 

[azum4roll]

I agree with the Open Door, but that would be too much text on the tenet.

 

[Stalker0]

Alternatively, liberating a CS this way could force an open-door on the CS (quite thematique with "self-determination" if you ask me).

The problem would be that sometimes you don't want to Open Door a CS you just liberated, you want to try and ally it. So this could actually be forcing the player to take something they don't want.

 

[azum4roll]

Should a CS be glad that you "rescue" them from a sphere of influence?

 

[pineappledan]

This really just seems like you aren’t using it to liberate major civ cities enough. It’s okay if it’s a situational pick, but it also seems like you’re self-narrowing the ability too much.

 

[Stalker0]

This really just seems like you aren’t using it to liberate major civ cities enough. It’s okay if it’s a situational pick, but it also seems like you’re self-narrowing the ability too much.

Its a fair question, and one of the reasons I did a draft to guage if this is just me. I mean are people using this tenent and liberating lots of major civ cities rather than puppeting them for yourself?

 

[Anarcomu]

Liberating cities is a strong source of warmongering cancellation. After you go for interesting cities, you can liberate the rest, and even dodge the worst penalty by liberating the very last city of a player.

 

[azum4roll]

Problem of this tenet is that usually the ones with captured cities already capitulated to the current city owner, so you can never liberate them.

 

[Slyceth]

The biggest problem with sphere of influence is not just that it keeps anyone from allying it apart from the owner for a certain amount of time, but it's that the owner is free to earn as much influence with it as they want, so when the sphere of influence is repealed, there's still no chance to ally it back without using ~3 great diplomats.

Proposal: Make influence freeze as long as an sphere of influence is in place.