Settling Early?

[Maccabeus]

Everyone who's been at the game a while tells me I should focus on spewing out settlers early to keep up with the AIs, and build up my military to keep them from declaring war on me. But something is wrong.

No matter how quickly I try to build settlers (and workers, to keep the towns connected, and military to keep the barbarians from killing off my settlers and workers), I quickly run up against a wall. My cities drop to population 1 or 2, which slows production right back down. Meanwhile, the other civs are still pumping them out and building wonders to boot.

If I happen to have space to begin with, a totally different strategy works better for me--build up early cultural improvements in a few towns first, start settling at a significant but slower pace afterwards. Once I've built up a sizable area, I then am in a much better position to outpace the other civilizations. But as often as not, I'm crammed in between a couple of warlike or expansionist AIs who gobble up the territory and leave me with nothing. Moreover, because I've been trying to build cities as fast as possible with minimal improvements, I'm usually flat broke long before I can start trading luxuries or resources, which slows me even further. Trading technology hasn't been working--the other civs advance faster than I do when I try this. And cutting my science rate just leads to being backwards.

Any ideas?

 

[Ivana]

In Regent level you don't need to build any settlers to keep up with ai. What you need to do is build your first city, develop literature, put your science research to 0% (never touch the slider again), build the GL and buy contacts with all the other civs. After you get Education (for free, served on a silver platter) just trade science.

The drawback of this approach is that you'll never get a Histographic win because of the slow score your one-city-empire is getting. You'll just have to win the Diplomatic or Cultural.

In my own experience this approach feels like a cheat, it's way too easy to win For people who just have to micromanage their workers this is actually a big relief...

 

[Maccabeus]

Forget I complained.

I'm finally doing well as a Warlord.

I started with the Zulus on a small island in a large archipelago. Well, middlin' small. The same island also contained the Babylonians and the Persians.

I started working on the strategy people have been describing to me and it's actually working! I just had to lose money longer than I had been willing to before.

Because Persia was between me and the Babylonians, I declared war on them first. (And got a military alliance with Hammy for a while, but then he backed out.) I just now actually conquered and destroyed a civilization for the first time--previously they had always escaped to another location. I also produced two leaders, whereas I had never gotten any before.

I just wish I had devoted a little more time to sea exploration. There was no iron on the large island, but right next to my territory is a smaller island with iron deposits. I've just taken them, too late to help me with Persia--but it's the only iron I can see at all. Once I've consolidated a bit, I can take on Babylon.

With luck, maybe it's the only iron _anywhere_...

[phaser]

 

[Maccabeus]

Ah well....no such luck.

By the time I had my territory consolidated--and I had to disband some of my units to maintain my money supply--the Babylonians had made contact with practically everyone else in the world and were getting iron from them. Now they have saltpeter and I have none, and no one will trade it to me. Moreover, I ended up losing money anyway and wasn't able to build or upgrade my units with iron.

Better times may or may not be ahead. Everyone seemed to be researching the same technologies, so I started researching a different pathway. Now I'm caught up and making money again because they're willing to pay exorbitant prices for things like metallurgy.

 

[Lkysam]

You will never be able to match AI expansion on higher levels. They best way to go about it is to build around 4 cities in good locations and build Mounted Warriors or horsemen or archers or swordsmen. Once you have a goodly amount(build a barracks in all cities! Militaristic helps!) march to the nearest AI and kick butt! Dont get into the "peaceful builder" mode because the AI is a viscous bully and only to diplomacy when your battering down his palace with a battering ram(Im hoping to add a ram unit in a mod!)!Once you have them in a deathlock either destroy them or demand everthing for peace. If you let them live build cities near them to inhibit early expansion. After that march you army to the next AI periodicaly replenish your army but in the meantime build infrastructure and sets. Once 2-3 AIs are gone or weakend you will have plenty of time to peacefully expand!

 

[dikwhit]

I disagree. Keeping up w/ the AI on expansion is fairly easy up to monarch and can even be done on emporer w/ a good starting location.First off, dont send the settler with a defensive unit. Send your settlers to places youve explored, build the city, then make the defensive unit in the new city.If the spearman takes more than 4-5 turns, build a warrior.The AI doesnt recognize what the unit is, just the number you have. In other words to the AI 50 warriors are just as potent as 50 modern armor.By the time your capital has puked out 3-4 settlers(2000ish BC) switch it over to pyramids.Usally you will get the pyramids fairly easy, then keeping up with the AI expansion is nothing,most cities can alternate spearman-settler and have no delay on waiting for the settler to build.

 

[Loopy]

If you want to keep pace city building wise, starting position is key. New city placement and lucky goodhuts comes in next. Getting wheat / cow / flood plains helps tremendously.

Keep track of how many turns it takes to finish production and how many turns until city growth. I've found that the fastest expansion comes when you hit size three and finish settler production at the same time.

I've managed to out expand the AI on Emperor level on a huge map a couple of times. Granted my infrastructure and military wasn't all that impressive, but I led in score for most of the game and won easily.

Winning cities via military might is doable, but out building them fits my style of play better. I do get whupped the few times I've tried Deity, but I have a feeling most people are in that same boat regardless of choice of strategy or style.

 

[Maccabeus]

I agree with you about military might, Loopy. I'm better at outbuilding, if I just get the chance. I have managed to wipe out the Persians twice (with the Zulu) and the Aztecs once with the Iroquois, but mostly I only fight when I must. (Technically, the Persians survived the first time, and the Aztecs lasted a long time after I beat them, but I destroyed all their original cities and the "neo-empire" never became powerful.)

 

[Maple]

It's not hard to out-settle the ai up to emperor or so. Once you get there, the ai cheats to much to beat them at expanding.

This is what I do:

1) Build settlers in Capital
- Every new city builds it's own defender
- Stop when cities number 2-4 are population 4
2) Cities 2-3 build settlers and workers on a 6:1 ratio (Six settlers for every one worker)
- Stop when each city has built three settlers
- Every new city builds it's own defender
3) City 4 start military
- Archer/Swordmen/Horseback Rider
4) Capital should be going for culture
- Great Library very helpful

Make sure that through the entire time you have at least 1 gold coming into your treasury each turn. Once you make contact with other civilizations, buy techs from them that you don't have if you don't have GL.

:frog: :frog:

Hope this helps

 

[MrBiggBoy]

Ah, the infamous Economy over science. I knew that Mr. Maple would use that baby. Total annihaltion. BTW, how you ever got to Future Tech? I've always won before I got AEGIS and Radar Artillery.

 

[Maple]

Originally posted by MrBiggBoy
Ah, the infamous Economy over science. I knew that Mr. Maple would use that baby. Total annihaltion. BTW, how you ever got to Future Tech? I've always won before I got AEGIS and Radar Artillery.

Normally, I win before I get to Future Technology, but if you trap civs like I was telling you previously to improve your score, then you get to future techs.

 

[Maccabeus]

I came awfully close to getting future technology in my last completed game. I was two technologies away, Stealth and whatever that is at the bottom, and on the verge of completing a spacecraft, when Lincoln got elected Secretary-General. Curses!

 

[MrBiggBoy]

that REALLY sucks.

o well

 

[allhailIndia]

Damn you Bigboy, I nearly sprained my fingers trying to reach the Civfanatics website.


BTW, Militaristic is better than expansionist early on, i.e, go after the other civs with swordsmen/Horsemen and then expand freely after you have blown 2 civs out of the water

 

[philippe]

i already had future tech 25....

 

[Bamspeedy]

i already had future tech 25....

And how many points did you get for those future techs? Most of the time people get a whole stinking 1 point!!! Not worth the effort if that's the case.

 

[MrBiggBoy]

yeah, after i get whole tech tree, i quit science. get TONS of money a turn, and rule world.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

I have begun to think that granaries, or better, the pyramids, are a big help in early expansion. A granary city rebounds faster from building the settlers. I usually try to cut down forest to speed the granary so I can time the settlers better. It is hard work keeping up with the ai though...

 

[ainwood]

I generally try to get my first city down as quickly as possible (provided there's one or two decent grassland squares to get at least one settler out quickly). I scout around for a good, productive site for my second that can be used solely for settler production - something with wheat or even fish. Rush a granary (the tree-chopping works well) and then build warrior (or spearman) / settler combos. Depending on the food, you can set the max. city size before you produce the settler - optimise the time taken to build the next settler.