settling position

[kaskavel]

Tough one...what would you do? The settler is sitting on a bonus grassland, so I havent moved the worker. The water squares are coast/ocean, not a lake.

 

[templar_x]

what are your settings, the difficulty, and the goal of the game?

if it was just my standard epic game, with no fixed VC in mind, i would most probably go for 2-1 or 2-2 of where the settler stands, depending on what the scout finds after moving to 4 of the wheat tile first next turn.

t_x

 

[kaskavel]

Could you explain the 2-1/2-2 communication method please? The scout has already moved. The settler and the worker have not. No VC in mind. Level is regent with very extreme self-restrictions though (not sure if you care to listen to them, but no tight city placement, something like OCP, unless a square is wasted). Settings are random, map turned out to be huge.

 

[tjs282]

T_x is describing NumPad moves, so "2-1" means move (the Settler) South then SW, "4 of the Wheat" means the Hills due West of the Wheat.

And that tile would be a good place for Zimbabwe, since it's on a River (no Duct needed), has a good defence-bonus, and once out of Despotism, can get lots of food from the Wheat, and irrigating BGrass, to balance working the Hills for shields.

 

[kaskavel]

Wow, waste two whole turns?

 

[tjs282]

At Regent? Yeah, why not? The AIs don't have any starting advantages at this level. Even up to Emperor might still be reasonable, to get a Food-bonus as good as Wheat on Grass. But maybe not at DG+, where they get a substantial discount on all growth and builds and start with (at least) 2 Settlers.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I'm going 3 (SE) and planting after 1 turn. I'm on a river and have 3 BGs and a grassland wheat in opening 9 box. I'm not seafaring (Zulu) so no benefit of being on the coast. It's actually a pretty good 20k starting location - in a Republic before rails, I can generate 26 shields per turn no problem (+2 food +1 shield from the city tile, +3 food from irrigated grassland wheat, 6 hills (+18 shields), 3 mined bgs (+6 shields), plus I have to irrigate another grassland for food (+1 food), plus 1 mined regular grassland (+1 shield).

@templar_x if you were going to settle on that hill, you should move 1-2 because you might reveal something you like with the move west first and change your mind where you plant.

If I were a seafaring civ, I'd go 8 (north) to get a coastal location and plant there 100% of the time.

 

[templar_x]

@BB- not really... 1-2 might reveal something, but if 2-2 turns out better, you simply wasted another turn. the scout is the unit to uncover more tiles here, not the settler (in other situations or without the EXP trait, things of course can be different).

3 of where the settler stands i would probably never choose. maybe ok for 20k, as you say, but you forgo the coastal access for TCol+TGLight.
for any game, and also 20k, it is anyways possible to access most of the good coast tiles via settlements 8-8 and 6-3-3 of that foundation spot. coastal towns definitely are not only useful if one is seafaring ("no benefit").

t_x

 

[BlackBetsy]

@BB- not really... 1-2 might reveal something, but if 2-2 turns out better, you simply wasted another turn. the scout is the unit to uncover more tiles here, not the settler (in other situations or without the EXP trait, things of course can be different).

3 of where the settler stands i would probably never choose. maybe ok for 20k, as you say, but you forgo the coastal access for TGLight.
for any game, and also 20k, it is anyways possible to access most of the good coast tiles via settlements 8-8 and 6-3-3 of that foundation spot. coastal towns definitely are not only useful if one is seafaring ("no benefit").

t_x

I'm just dumb, I meant 1-3.

If you want coastal access, it's 8. Again, it depends on what level you are playing and what victory condition you want. If you are going for a science game and want to have a good coastal city for Colossus / Cope / Newton, I *might* settle 2-2 for a settler factory and then plant second city 8 of current settler location but I just don't ever walk 2 to start a game. And I'm never using the Zulu for a science game!

If you are using the Zulu, I assume you are doing a Con/Dom game and if this is a Pangaea, coastal access is minimally beneficial and walking 1 tile to 3 seems like the best to me.

 

[templar_x]

sorry, again, no.

1-3 doesn´t make any sense at all. no fresh water access.

and 8?? losing the food ressource? nah, not me.

t_x

 

[BlackBetsy]

sorry, again, no.

1-3 doesn´t make any sense at all. no fresh water access.

and 8?? losing the food ressource? nah, not me.

t_x

LOL, I DID mean 1-2 (same place tile 2-1, just reveals darkness). I'm confused by the numbers too, apparently! And just too lazy to screenshot and circle the tiles!

I'd go for 8 if starting on a coast was a #1 priority and I was Seafaring and wanted to get a curragh immediately.

Here as Zulu I can't see 8 or 6-3 as a good option. That's why I like 3.

 

[templar_x]

1-2 is too risky to lose a turn, for nothing in return. 1 on the first moves shows new tiles, just as 2 on the first move! no advantage.

8 or 6-3?? both lose the food ressource, either forever or for 10 turns, i would totally rule those out.

from what i see, i would move:
THIS TURN
settler -2
NEXT TURN
scout -7-4
settler -2 (if scout sees nothing of interest)
NEXT TURN
move the scout, settle

-> allows for a beautiful full 1st ring
-> allows to share the wheat with the 2nd town by the coast
-> all those coast tiles will be worked soon-ish, optimized by a harbour

t_x

 

[kaskavel]

-> allows for a beautiful full 1st ring
-> allows to share the wheat with the 2nd town by the coast

t_x

Good thing you delayed presenting those arguments, they would have been quite convincing, since they are going too deep in planning terms. I moved 8 and got two cattle on grass as a reward that I certainly didnt deserve.

 

[kaskavel]

From what I learned from this post, it turns out that expansionist trait has in some cases some significant advantages in the first two turns.

 

[Spoonwood]

Wow, waste two whole turns?

Moving two turns for the settler at any level can work out better or fine. I have I think two Sid standard sized map games on record, I think, where I move two turns first.

 

[templar_x]

Moving two turns for the settler at any level can work out better or fine. I have I think two Sid standard sized map games on record, I think, where I move two turns first.

Same with me... the saves are on the Sid chart
it is actually quite easy to get the logic behind it: a normal start gives me +2 fpt surplus; if i can reach +4 fpt surplus with a food ressource 2 moves away, i will gain back the losses from the "move investment" very soon, food-wise. and those, like, 2 shields and 2 commerce and 2 culture... they are really nothing, in most of the cases.
t_x

 

[templar_x]

Good thing you delayed presenting those arguments, they would have been quite convincing, since they are going too deep in planning terms. I moved 8 and got two cattle on grass as a reward that I certainly didnt deserve.

amazing! Fortune really favours the bold.

your settling location sounds like good for a combo factory to me, from what i can see on the map. excellent start position material of course!

t_x