Sgotm 01 - C F R
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
We can hire several artists in Moscow instead of working mines, we should get a GA before we win so we will be able to use it for the culture bomb near the end. Then we can use our current GA against India. I am not sure if it worth it, I don't have any experience with culture flips in civ4 and I don't know whether we can stop our persian cities from flipping by hiring artist specialists or not. If not then we can sacrifice some production for a second GA.
Cat Behemoth
Warlord
10% of revolt is too much. Cities almost sure to go to India in 20 turns, I think. So in my opinion there is no better place for GA than there. Let's make a culture bomb in ex-Percia. Also I doubt we need more GAs. We'll extend our borders just by simple artists.
Yes, we can, but the last cities we capture will be on resistance, so using GA there can spare us several turns. Where does that 10% chance come from? If it is really so, then I afree about the GA. We should then detonate the first bomb in Susa and also make another one in Moscow or Persepolis, but without building National Epic, it will just take too long.
Make farms near Moscow then, not cottages. It still has to beat Thebes with its Great Library and 2 scientists - needs like 4 artists.
9% chance is very high. However, we can check whether usual measures (theatres and troops and artists) work first. Flipping occurs only after 2nd revolt, thus if we manage to push borders away before 1st, we'd better save artist. If there's a revolt, we'd better not risk and use GA bomb.
9% chance is very high. However, we can check whether usual measures (theatres and troops and artists) work first. Flipping occurs only after 2nd revolt, thus if we manage to push borders away before 1st, we'd better save artist. If there's a revolt, we'd better not risk and use GA bomb.
Cat Behemoth
Warlord
Lexad said:
Not the fact. In couple of my games cities gone out in the continuing of the first revolt. In my opinion if city have more than 8% revolt chances they can be saved only by the troops. (about 5-6 units to reduce it to 2-3%) Of course culture bomb have to be also effective method.
It is necessary to have 2 revolts for flipping to happen - just appears that your second was just the turn the furst ended. I'm proposing to useartist when first happens to avoid risk.
Every unit has "cultural power", so enough untis can guarantee they will be no revolt. Just that "enough" could be like 20.
P.S. If we destryed Persia completely, their culture would have become ours and helped us to resists India.
Every unit has "cultural power", so enough untis can guarantee they will be no revolt. Just that "enough" could be like 20.
P.S. If we destryed Persia completely, their culture would have become ours and helped us to resists India.
Obormot: We should then detonate the first bomb in Susa and also make another one in Moscow or Persepolis
That is the great idea! Persepolis has plenty of food - if we give all seafood to it, it can support 10(sic!) artists, assuming to disease. So I think it is granary and mass artists for Persepolis.
That is the great idea! Persepolis has plenty of food - if we give all seafood to it, it can support 10(sic!) artists, assuming to disease. So I think it is granary and mass artists for Persepolis.
Cat Behemoth
Warlord
Cat Behemoth said:
Yes. The second is necessary. But it's seems that the second could be not AFTER the first. It could be, for example, on the next turn after starting of the first. Just when random "wants" to make the second revolt. Even the second may be not enough, and the third too. But the first revolt don't has to be finished for culture flipping. (Or if it has to be - it means couple bugs in my games
)akots
Poet
Just a reminder that Witan is UP.
Well, lets use that great artist somewhere. Otherwise, what for have we researched Music? It had cost us a few turns towards Astronomy and the only purpose of Music seems to be that artist.
Well, lets use that great artist somewhere. Otherwise, what for have we researched Music? It had cost us a few turns towards Astronomy and the only purpose of Music seems to be that artist.
Witan
Chieftain
I start to play. So report about results some hours later.
Cat Behemoth
Warlord
Witan has played and send me save to upload it. That's his small description. He promised to explain more tomorrow.
1055 ad (0)
We have grand problem on border with Indian: Gordinium & Susa have chance of Revolt more than 9% and only +2 Culture per turn. So in Gordim I make Artist from citizen only in Gordium. Production switch to Thater in both. GA go to Susa. Cancel all order for worker: we don't need cottages, I think, that Moscou - good GA factory, so lets build some farm near (to atart switch production to granary). Persepolis is good place for this too.
Dipolo: India - cancel all, sell Sugar for 7 gpt. American: sell Clam for Sheep and Drama for 220.
1106 (4)
Revolt in Susa - so isn't bed idea to invite GA there.
1130(8)
GA create make great work in Susa
1142 (10) end of session
1055 ad (0)
We have grand problem on border with Indian: Gordinium & Susa have chance of Revolt more than 9% and only +2 Culture per turn. So in Gordim I make Artist from citizen only in Gordium. Production switch to Thater in both. GA go to Susa. Cancel all order for worker: we don't need cottages, I think, that Moscou - good GA factory, so lets build some farm near (to atart switch production to granary). Persepolis is good place for this too.
Dipolo: India - cancel all, sell Sugar for 7 gpt. American: sell Clam for Sheep and Drama for 220.
1106 (4)
Revolt in Susa - so isn't bed idea to invite GA there.
1130(8)
GA create make great work in Susa
1142 (10) end of session
Cat Behemoth
Warlord
Checked the save just now. Looks like our science is finally dead. It's too problematically to learn Guilds. But our army is mighty and we have a good chances for fast victory. I'm changing my mind about Persepolis. I think there is a reason to make a GA in it. Not more than 10 turns to grow to 12 and it will support 8 artists. Less than 20 turns for GA. Also there are still too gread odds to Gordium for flipping - may be it will be good to send all Percian troops to Gordium?
It's too problematically to learn Guilds. But our army is mighty and we have a good chances for fast victory. I'm changing my mind about Persepolis. I think there is a reason to make a GA in it. Not more than 10 turns to grow to 12 and it will support 8 artists. Less than 20 turns for GA. Also there are still too gread odds to Gordium for flipping - may be it will be good to send all Percian troops to Gordium?Good point about Gordium, I'm worried about it too. Need to change smith in Susa to artist to help Gordium push away Indians.
General notes on the save:
Excelent warfare, just didn't understand why we stopped with Saladin. Was it a ceasefire as I see no peace treaty actuve or is it a loading bug? As I see you're going to invade his lands from both sides as soon as possible - good idea.
Couple of elephants for protection and offense could be used. Also, maybe, barracks in Piter and Judaism in Memphis.
I see Witan started Inca campaign - excellent! Need more troops, but our homeland has enough production capac-ity
. Our Arab force is enough to finish the job. Good idea with ships blocking away enemy sea.
Culture: I vote Persepolis too. Next Gperson is GScientist in Thebes, so we need extra speed to make more GAs. We have marble so can chop NEpic really fast.
Edit: MM note - if we do not use Moscow for cultural purposes, I'd rather put the citizen back on gems.
General notes on the save:
Excelent warfare, just didn't understand why we stopped with Saladin. Was it a ceasefire as I see no peace treaty actuve or is it a loading bug? As I see you're going to invade his lands from both sides as soon as possible - good idea.
Couple of elephants for protection and offense could be used. Also, maybe, barracks in Piter and Judaism in Memphis.
I see Witan started Inca campaign - excellent! Need more troops, but our homeland has enough production capac-ity
. Our Arab force is enough to finish the job. Good idea with ships blocking away enemy sea.Culture: I vote Persepolis too. Next Gperson is GScientist in Thebes, so we need extra speed to make more GAs. We have marble so can chop NEpic really fast.
Edit: MM note - if we do not use Moscow for cultural purposes, I'd rather put the citizen back on gems.
akots
Poet
Well, it would be nice to have actually a description of what had been done during the turn. Obviously, I cannot play without this description.
Yes, it would be nice to see a description. What happened to Witan?
I opened the save and it does look good though. I guess akots should be able to finish the arabs off and maybe also do some progress with the incas.
I agree that we need to pull all the units available in Persia into Gordium to prevent the flip, but even this might be not enough
I am not sure if we need 2 culture bombs, propably one is enough, but generating one in Moscow and one in Persepolis is fine with me since we seem to be doing well on unit production. Note that we can buy Philosophy and some gold from Gandhi for Astronomy and revolt to pacifism to speed up artist generation.
I also think we don't need to build courthouses in Arabia, they will take too long and we should still be able to sustain our economy by capturing cities. Lets just build unit there.
We might also want to revolt to vassalage, so that these units have at least one promotion and units built at home will still get 2 promotions, even if we switch to pacifism.
Also note that we don't need any long term micromanagement: halt ALL growth (except when it takes just a few turns), don't work any small cottages, work only the mature ones. If there is excess food MM for higher shields or hire merchants. BTW we should fire all scientists we have and hire merchants.
We should also start building settlers for small islands sometime soon.
I opened the save and it does look good though. I guess akots should be able to finish the arabs off and maybe also do some progress with the incas.
I agree that we need to pull all the units available in Persia into Gordium to prevent the flip, but even this might be not enough
I am not sure if we need 2 culture bombs, propably one is enough, but generating one in Moscow and one in Persepolis is fine with me since we seem to be doing well on unit production. Note that we can buy Philosophy and some gold from Gandhi for Astronomy and revolt to pacifism to speed up artist generation.
I also think we don't need to build courthouses in Arabia, they will take too long and we should still be able to sustain our economy by capturing cities. Lets just build unit there.
We might also want to revolt to vassalage, so that these units have at least one promotion and units built at home will still get 2 promotions, even if we switch to pacifism.
Also note that we don't need any long term micromanagement: halt ALL growth (except when it takes just a few turns), don't work any small cottages, work only the mature ones. If there is excess food MM for higher shields or hire merchants. BTW we should fire all scientists we have and hire merchants.
We should also start building settlers for small islands sometime soon.
akots
Poet
Obormot said:
Indeed, it is actually the most important point of playing a SG. Otherwise, it makes no sense. Now, if you don't like to write up better not play at all or if you have no time, better ask for a skip which can be granted then, just need to ask. It is not a big deal however, since there are lot of things to be changed apparently. I just don't think I understand certain things about the save clearly since there would have been obviously some sense behind some actions, I just fail to see that sense. Never mind the rant though. I have time to play today but have no time to play tomorrow and probably no time to play on Sunday as well. And this would mean that we either wait to Monday for the description or I play today at night without description. Either way is fine for me in general.
Judging by the progress of other teams, we are doing pretty average there, neither first nor last apparently more close to the upper part of the pack. So, there still might be some chance and we have to play very accurately and carefully without major setbacks and blunders, just kill everyone as efficiently and rapidly as possible while trying to maintain zero cash balance so that not to go onto strike. But even if it is strike for a few last turns, it should be OK, we can handle a loss of a few units apparently. Our rise of power had been somewhat slowed down recently again judgin just by the comparison of power curves with other teams.
So, I completely agree with Obormot here that we should start building units in captured cities and rush them to the frontline. Not sure about artists and pacifism, it might be worth it or it might be not. It just looks kinda odd playing all-out military game and using the pacifism civic. Not much of a roleplaying here which is a part of the fun.
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