SGOTM 01 - Fifth Element

[gskur]

@Merum #142
Oops! I forgot about the 1C on the cows tile due to the river. The cows win in the end by 1F. But yes, as long as we develop horses first anyways...

The cities are miraculously connected: Memphis has cows for +1 health, and those are pastured at Thebes; they have no road on them but are on the river bank, so that's it, I guess.

St. Petersburg will be tough, yes. But it has to go. We'll build Chariots in both cities till we have enough, otherwise we can forget domination.

We must raze the city. Taking it and not taking Moscow right away will be a real pain for us (Moscow will overwhelm it--or nearly so--with culture), and a real drain of resources with no contribution back to us. We are so-o-o better off razing it!

 

[gskur]

I've collapsed this post into a spoiler to save screen space! (05-19-02)

Spoiler The first 6 turns :

2260 BC
Changed production in Memphis to barracks. The Warrior remains in the queue, for now.
Leonardo is directed to go to horses tile; movement starts next turn.
Gave no promotion to Tefnut…
Moved Tefnut and Geb in an attempt to reduce fog of war in the east—not good.
Saved the game.
End of 1of10

2230 BC
Leonardo is moving. Shu is fortified 1W from where I found him; only the silver tile is dark in the north.
Moved Tefnut and Geb back . Alas, they cannot completely remove the fog of war; their original positions are the best. I’ll park them next turn.
Saved the game.
End of 2of10

2200 BC
Fortified Tefnut and Geb.
Leonardo arrived to the horses tile. Starting next turn, it will take 7 turns to build pasture, 3? Turns to buil a road—this is 10 turns in this spot, braking the fog of war 1N1W of horses.
Directing Shu to go towards the silver tile to light it up. He moves 1 place diagonally NE. The silver is not dark any longer, but the 2W of the horses is. Darn. You can tell I hate the dark areas on the map… Need to move him back nex turn.
Saved the game.
End of 3of10

2170 BC
Leonardo started on pasture (6 turns left).
Memphis will grow in 7 turns to size 2.
Memphis borders will expand in 6 turns.
Shu is back , 1N of Leonardo.
The second worker is due in Thebes in 2 turns.
Saved the game.
End of 4of10

2140 BC
Bronze Working is due in 2 turns.
Saved the game.
End of 5of10

2110 BC
The second worker is redy in Thebes and goes to finish quarry (2 turns to move, 2? to finish construction). Started on barracks (16 turns).
Thebes grows to size 4 in 6 turns.
BW is due in 1 turn.
Saved the game.
End of 6of10

2080 BC
The second worker is on the stone tile.
Bronze Working is researched.
We do not have copper. Catherine does, 2N1E of St. Petersburg.
We did not convert to Slavery at this time.
Started researching Pottery (11 turns), saved the game, but did not finish the turn yet. Saved the game.
Some might like going for Iron (30 turns) or anything else?

 

[Groin_Apologist]

Looks like I'm closer to the Chicago-Dallas contingent. Lansing, Michigan = Eastern standard time = GMT -05?

I know we're building a barracks... are we going to attack before founding a third city then? Is the plan to get a couple of chariots and raze St. Pete's, or are we thinking we want to build a huge chariot army to proceed directly to Moscow. Like someone said, are we even going to be able to take on Moscow before getting contruction and catapults?

And we are putting priority on war-making, right? (As opposed to, say, an oracle slingshot?)

 

[Goodenuf]

Hi all,

Thx for the updates on locations of everyone. Truly a global game. We just need someone in OZ or China/Japan to really make it an around the world game.

The lack of copper for us, and it's availability in St. Petes makes a quick attack with chariots a critical decision. If we dont go soon, our chariot advantage is lost, and we have to wait for Cats to get in. If so, then a research path will be needed (a la slingshot). Needless to say, we're a ways away from that.

I don't think we have time to build a settler and a 3rd city. Barracks and chariots via chopping may be the path to go down. First order would be to pillage that copper (if it gets hooked up), then take/raze St. Petes. If we don't have copper, Cathy will likely come after us if we sit back.

The lack of copper to me indicates that we may need Iron Working sooner than later so we can (hopefully) have iron and swords to back up those chariots.

In any case, I'm signing off for our Canadian long weekend (camping trip). I will check in again late Monday (Pacific Time). I fully expect to be eating some pillaged caviar by then

Obviously, I defer my turn if it comes up. Take care and good hunting.

 

[Dolphan]

@All discussion #136+

That copper isn't too bad - I'm thinking we should take the worker when it pops up to build a mine, keep an eye on the tile to stop her getting spearmen. I think with momentum we should be able to take Moscow with chariots, IW may not be the optimal next choice. Axes are just as good as swords for rushes, and we can get the copper after taking Moscow. what are our other options, I've lost track?

 

[Perugia]

Turn 9 (2290): The fledgling city of Memphis is founded, on the original blue site. Rivers miraculously allow an instantaneous trade link with Thebes (not sure exactly how, but its nice anyway). Science down to 90 to get rid of the -1 gold, gets us +2.

+gskur. I have had instantaneous trade links before between two cities connected along a coast but before I discovered sailing. I thought it was probably due to the cities cultural borders touching in the ocean. So it seems trade can happen over ocean before sailing or astronomy as long as the ocean is inside your borders.

I suspect something similar is happening here as the cultual border one city is touching the river that the other city was founded on.

Great Idea Dolphan to watch the copper mine and steal the worker. Goodenuf, with us being able to disconnect the Russian copper, we don't need IW yet. It's very expensive we must give science a boost now and go for POTTERY. We are OK until the next border expansion of St Petersburg which is some 40 turns off.

My timezone is BST (GMT+1 in summer, GMT in winter).

Once we build a few chariots, but before we have enough to attack Catherine, we could reduce the amount of fog busting near where the chariots are mustering. That way the chariots can get their second promotions.

Sorry for the bad mining location 1S of Moscow, should have been 1S of Thebes!

I am not keen to convert to Slavery any time soon.

Can we name the second worker...

Do Anhur and Tefnut both have enough experience for a promotion? What shall we give them something defensive like Combat 1, Woodsman 1 or Guerilla I. Would it be better to give them city attack promos or cover to help kill any weakened archers?

Keep building for war and improving the tiles to the max folks.

 

[Dolphan]

@Perugia #145

Tefnut has a promotion waiting, I left it for others to decide. Definitely agree about going for pottery. We need cottages growing.

 

[gskur]

I would have named the worker...
Can anybody tell me how it is done (I never do it, so I never learned how). Never mind...
What is you suggestion for the name? I like Apprentice.

Tefnut still has a promotion pending. Maybe combat I, but I think hill defence for the chariot support might be it. What do you think? If she'll be doing the worker stealing from the Russians, then this is useless, but I suspect we will have chariots by then. Should we wait till the moment comes?

 

[Merum]

I'm at work now, so I'll keep this brief...

We're spiritual. Wouldn't switching to slavery now save us 1gpt at no anarchy cost?

I go to China several times a year on business... will that count towards our overall globalization?

 

[gskur]

@Merum, #149
1. I am all ears: How does it save 1gpt?
2.

 

[gskur]

Completed my turns and uploaded the file. It can be downloaded from SGOTM Progress and Results Page. Groin Apologist, make desired changes, if any, and end the turn to start your watch. Good luck!

Groin_Apologist (up)
Goodenuf (skip on May 19-22)
Perugia (on deck)
Merum
DoomTrain
BrianS
Dolphan
gskur (resting)

My full report follows.

 

[gskur]

I am attempting a compact format here. Let me know what you think.

Spoiler Report by gskur, 2260 BC through 1960 BC :

Spoiler 2260 BC :

2260 BC
Changed production in Memphis to barracks. The Warrior remains in the queue, for now.
Leonardo is directed to go to horses tile; movement starts next turn.
Gave no promotion to Tefnut…
Moved Tefnut and Geb in an attempt to reduce fog of war in the east—not good.
Saved the game.
End of 1 of 10

Spoiler 2230 BC :

2230 BC
Leonardo is moving. Shu is fortified 1W from where I found him; only the silver tile is dark in the north.
Moved Tefnut and Geb back . Alas, they cannot completely remove the fog of war; their original positions are the best. I’ll park them next turn.
Saved the game.
End of 2 of 10

Spoiler 2200 BC :

2200 BC
Fortified Tefnut and Geb.
Leonardo arrived to the horses tile. Starting next turn, it will take 7 turns to build pasture, 3? Turns to buil a road—this is 10 turns in this spot, braking the fog of war 1N1W of horses.
Directing Shu to go towards the silver tile to light it up. He moves 1 place diagonally NE. The silver is not dark any longer, but the 2W of the horses is. Darn. You can tell I hate the dark areas on the map… Need to move him back nex turn.
Saved the game.
End of 3 of 10

Spoiler 2170 BC :

2170 BC
Leonardo started on pasture (6 turns left).
Memphis will grow in 7 turns to size 2.
Memphis borders will expand in 6 turns.
Shu is back , 1N of Leonardo.
The second worker is due in Thebes in 2 turns.
Saved the game.
End of 4 of 10

Spoiler 2140 BC :

2140 BC
Bronze Working is due in 2 turns.
Saved the game.
End of 5 of 10

Spoiler 2110 BC :

2110 BC
The second worker is redy in Thebes and goes to finish quarry (2 turns to move, 2? to finish construction). Started on barracks (16 turns).
Thebes grows to size 4 in 6 turns.
BW is due in 1 turn.
Saved the game.
End of 6 of 10

Spoiler 2080 BC :

2080 BC
The second worker is on the stone tile.
Bronze Working is researched.
We do not have copper. Catherine does, 2N1E of St. Petersburg.
We did not convert to Slavery at this time.
Started researching Pottery (11 turns), saved the game, but did not finish the turn yet. Saved the game.
Some might like going for Iron (30 turns) or anything else?
End of 7 of 10

Spoiler 2050 BC :

2050 BC
Borders of Memphis expanded.
As on cue, a barb Warior emerges from the Silverland and is 2N of Shu.
Shu will remain in-place. After the battle, I’ll moving him 1N1W to remove fog of war from the silver tile.
Someone discovered Judaism.
Apprentice was ordered to finish quarry and is done. Surprise! Well, the turn Leonardo was pulled off the spot was credited as work, silly me. Cool!
Nothing happens on the Russian end.
Continue with Pottery (10).
Saved the game.
End of 8 of 10

Spoiler 2020 BC :

2020 BC
Moving Apprentice to 1S of Thebes to build a mine. Pottery is 9 turns away, so after this mine is completed, he will move to 1S1E of Thebes and build a cottage, then to 2S of Thebes and finish the mine that was started a few dozen turns back. I am switching Thebes to work this flood now, in anticiaption.
Leonardo completed the pasture on horses.
The barb warrior went away. Moving Shu 1N1E; yes, the barb is on top of silver…
Nothing on the Russian side.
Saved the game.
End of 9 of 10

Spoiler 1990 BC :

1990 BC
The barb moves SE onto a wooded hill. Shu moves E onto the wooded hill just S of the barb.
Move Anhur NE (in case Shu is totally ot of luck). BTW, Anhur has a promotion pending too, like Tefnut.
Leonardo starts on the road to connect horses (3 turns, counting this one).
Memphis grows to size 2 next turn. I will MM the new citizen to work the horses.
Apprentice arrived 1S of Thebes.
Nothing on the Russian side.
Saved the game.
End of 10 of 10

Spoiler 1960 BC :

1960 BC
The barb attacks. Shu suffers no damage and is ready for promotion! I order him to fortify in-place.
The new citizen of Memphis automatically went to work horses. I turned off sitizen automation in the city: we better MM for now.
Anhur is back in Thebes.
Apprentice started the mine on 1S of the capital. It will take him 6 turns, counting this one. Pottery is 7 turns away. When the mine is completed, move him E to build a cottage: this is, as it happened, a perfect timing!
Saved the game. Uploaded.
Did not end the turn.

Current Status

Thebes will have a new citizen next turn. Let's put him to work quarry.
Barracks at Thebes are 39/90. Next turn comes, it will be 44/90. Next turn after that, with quarry working, we’ll be pulling 10Hpt. This will make barracks ready in 6 turns from now. Then we can Alt-Chariot to our victory over Catherine.
Continue with Apprentice as described in 2010 BC and 1950 BC reports (see above).

Memphis will grow in 12 turns. After the road is built on horses, I think we should make Leonardo build a pasture for the cows by the river (2S from the horses), NOT for those SW of horses—my concern here is more with Commerce then with Hammers vs. Food.
Barracks are due in about 18 turns (considering of the pending growth in 12 and working the cows by the new citizen)

All three warriors are ready for promotions.
Tefnut is awaiting a Russian worker to steal him and sacrifice herself (inevitably so, if not supported by other troops).

There is this dark spot 2N from Tefnut: whatch out for barbs!

What do we research after Pottery?

 

[BrianS]

@gskur #152

I am attempting a compact format here. Let me know what you think.

Too many clicks. I'd prefer 1 button to show all the turns, or maybe 2 buttons for the first 5 and second 5 turns.

 

[Merum]

Never mind about the slavery and the 1gpt... I understood that with the advent of patch 1.52, that switching to slavery could save you money since it was changed to "No Upkeep". I think it might have been changed back in 1.61.

I do wonder though, if we might grow one of our cities agressively and whip some chariots out of it...

 

[Dolphan]

@Merum #154

I was thinking about whipping chariots. Only thing is, I've never tried it before, although according to some people in the strategy forum it can be very effective. With spiritual, it could be worth it to get the jump on Cathy.

 

[gskur]

@Dolphan
Why does "spiritual" matter? Can you point out the references in the forum (if handy)?

We, and only we--Egyptians, have special chariots: 5 strength (not 4) and immune to first strike (great against archers), all for the same ragular 37 production hammers worth of a chariot. Otherwise we would not stand a chance with chariots. This begs to be exploited to the fullest, for it is the only standard-built-into-the-game military break we will ever get. Is this what they mean?

 

[Dolphan]

@Gskur #156

Spiritual matters because we don't incur any negative effect from switching to slavery - no anarchy, and I'm pretty sure its the same upkeep.

I'll find a link, but I was talking about pop rushing in general, usually axes - obviously people wouldn't normally be using chariots.

EDIT - here, take a look, particularly at Tyrant's posts: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165946&highlight=pop+rush

 

[Merum]

Groin_Apologist, are you alive?

The save is getting stale...

I'm wondering... If we're going to take a shot at Catherine, should writing/Alphabet be on our list so that we can squeeze tech from her when she's on the ropes, or are we just going flat out for a full kill? Thoughts?

 

[Dolphan]

@Merum #158

I think we would hope to have her wiped out and be consolidating by the time alphabet comes around.

 

[Merum]

Groin_Apologist, are you alive?

The save is getting stale...

I'm wondering... If we're going to take a shot at Catherine, should writing/Alphabet be on our list so that we can squeeze tech from her when she's on the ropes, or are we just going flat out for a full kill? Thoughts?

@Dolphan 159: Yes, you're probably right. I just like to get all the options on the table...

Damn... I meant to edit my original post. Sorry about the spam