SGOTM 01 - Memphis Blues

[radiopill]

Yes, good job for the war!

Now, we need to continue the pillage of her land...

For the tech path, IW is not a priority IMO, we should go for writing then alphabt/litteracy or Math/currency...but CoL is still a priority if we start to expand fast and if we discover (start) CoL not to late, we can try Oracle for CS...

But the priority is the war against Cathy, and I fear the maintenance cost of all her cities...

 

[Frederiksberg]

I'm quite happy for us to go for a wonder, IMO it should be commerce/research based - so either Colossus or the Great Library. I guess I favour the Library, we seem to be behind in techs.

Agree. We need to get more commerce/research to pay for our (hopefullly) growing empire. I believe the Colossus will earn us more money in the long run when our cities start working those water tiles. The GL only gives 2 scientists in the city where it is built which equals 6 . With a research rate near 100% we would only need to work 6 water tiles in our entire empire to match this (Colossus increases gold by one for all water tiles). But there are more arguments for researching Metal Casting next. Having this technology enables the construction of a forge. All cities with a forge receive an extra happyness point from silver and gems and we should soon have both of these luxuries hooked up. There is no other building available that will give us the same happyness increase. Furthermore the forges will add 25% production capacity which might come in handy when we start building a fleet and go Inca hunting (and we could have an engineer specialist in Thebes that will give us yet another GE for wonder building).

For the tech path, IW is not a priority IMO, we should go for writing then alphabt/litteracy or Math/currency...but CoL is still a priority if we start to expand fast and if we discover (start) CoL not to late, we can try Oracle for CS...

I agree that IW is not essential right now. We should be able to win the war without using iron and after that we are probably alone on our island. Writing should be high on our list of priorities since we need libraries to increase research. But we cannot build them now since we are at war and need all production capacity for building WC's. And Writing only takes 11 turns to research at the current rate. Metal Casting is about 56 turns away so the war and our GE should be finished by then and we could start building forges in our cities followed by the Colossus (and libraries). Code of Law is also important to cut down on maintenance when we capture the russian cities. My suggestion for tech path is thus:

Metal Casting -> Writing -> Code of Law

 

[Frederiksberg]

I almost forgot the war

I think we are in a good position (thanks to BSouder ). The copper mines are pillaged and the northern cities of St. Petersburg and Rostov are cut off by our WC's south of St. Petersburg and cannot be reinforced from Moscow. There are two archers in both the northern cities and none of those cities are producing more than 3-4 hammers per turn. This means they need about 10 turns or so to produce an archer. So most likely we will be facing 3 archers in St. Petersburg when we are ready to attack. We need at least 6 WC's to carry out the attack, 3 WC's for wearing down the defence (1st wave) and 3 WC's for finishing the defenders off. Attacking with insufficient forces is a BIG mistake because the defenders will heal and maybe even be promoted thus making the sacrifice of the first wave useless. So 7-8 WC's might be the safe number of attackers. We already have 4 WC's so in principle we only need to build 3 more. We should, however, use a few WC's to block the road from Moscow and prevent reinforcements to show up. They could also pillage the mines around Moscow to further reduce their military production and keep an eye on the copper near Novgorod and make sure this mine is not rebuilt. By the way, when we start piling up WC's outside St. Petersburg we should place them on the hills to further reduce the production of the city. If we use 3 WC's to keep the russians busy down south we need to build 6 more WC's and move them next to St. Petersburg before we attack. This will take 7 turns for building (We have two that are almost done) and around 6 turns for moving them. By the way, when promoting our newly built units we should use a mix of flanking and combat 1. Flanking will be good for the survival rate of the first suicide wave of attackers and combat 1 will be good for the second wave of killers. With a little luck we capture St. Petersburg 15 turns from now

 

[BSouder]

The WC that is nearing Moscow has no promotions. I think he is best served continuing pillaging around the capital.

We have 2 new barracks created WCs on St. Petersburgs doorstep and 2 more that will be built as soon as End Turn is pressed again.

I think the current turn order is:

Hyfrydle
Frederiksberg
Mad Professor
KingdomBrunel
BSouder (Just Played)
Drogear (Up Next)
radiopill
Syntherio

 

[Drogear]

Ok I’m up next.

Thursday isn’t really a good day for me because I always play poker this night
(live 30-man SnG NL hold ém). I’ll play all my turns on Friday.

I’m going to read up on the posts, but are there any general techpath/war strategies or anything else Ill have to keep my mind on?

P.S Good thing that HOMMV seems to be a real downer so I get more civIV

 

[Frederiksberg]

Ok I’m up next.

Thursday isn’t really a good day for me because I always play poker this night
(live 30-man SnG NL hold ém). I’ll play all my turns on Friday.

I’m going to read up on the posts, but are there any general techpath/war strategies or anything else Ill have to keep my mind on?

P.S Good thing that HOMMV seems to be a real downer so I get more civIV

Would you consider swapping with someone else? Can't play tonight myself though since I'm going to Sweden. But maybe Radiopill or Syntherio would consider swapping?

 

[radiopill]

For me it's OK, as I'm in holiday...

I don't play right now, I wait on some more discussion about the tech strategy...

For the production, as anyone look at the possibility of whipping some unit , or will it hurt to much the happiness...
Is it possible for example, to run Police state now, pump 4 WC durind 6 turns (3 turns for 1 WC right?), then at the 7th turn whip 1 more in the cities, then start Representation for the happinees..?
That would make 6 WC in about 7-8 turns... or I could wait 3 more turns for 2 more WC, and it'll make 8 WC in 10 turns...

What do you think about this..?

 

[Syntherio]

Lets wait till friday... No need to hurry I think.
Imo we should attack with 4 WCs against 2 archers and 6 WCs against 3 archers.
For the research: I would prefer IW, with Swordsmen we would be able to finish Cathy fast. But if the majority decides, that we don´t need IW, i would agree with Frederiksberg and Metal Casting.

 

[radiopill]

Another question... how many give a chopped forest (next to a city)..? And how many turns do we need to make this chop (with 1 or 2 Workers)..?

 

[Frederiksberg]

Lets wait till friday... No need to hurry I think.
Imo we should attack with 4 WCs against 2 archers and 6 WCs against 3 archers.
For the research: I would prefer IW, with Swordsmen we would be able to finish Cathy fast. But if the majority decides, that we don´t need IW, i would agree with Frederiksberg and Metal Casting.

If Radiopill is willing to play tonight I don't see any harm in that. Drogear would still get to play tomorrow as planned.

When St. Petersburg is captured we get copper and can use axemen with city raider promotion to finish off Moscow.

Otherwise I agree

 

[Frederiksberg]

Another question... how many give a chopped forest (next to a city)..? And how many turns do we need to make this chop (with 1 or 2 Workers)..?

I think it's 3 or 4 turns and we get 30 hammers.

 

[radiopill]

I think it's 3 or 4 turns and we get 30 hammers.

I thought, it's was more and longer in epic. So in this case, before whipping the WC, it's also possible to chop 1 or 2 forest around thebes...

 

[Frederiksberg]

I thought, it's was more and longer in epic. So in this case, before whipping the WC, it's also possible to chop 1 or 2 forest around thebes...

Hammer ouput increases by 50% after researching Math as far as I know. This is new to version 1.61 earlier on there wasn't this penalty early on. We can chop one forrest around Thebes without hurting health. I don't know much about pop rushing and if you'd like to try it out I suggest you do it in Memphis, where the population is growing fast.

 

[Drogear]

Ive been seeing that we are falling behind in the race vs other teams

Any chance we can overrun the ruskies sone? I remember someone saying that we are gaining war chariots fast.

 

[Mad Professor]

Ive been seeing that we are falling behind in the race vs other teams

Any chance we can overrun the ruskies sone? I remember someone saying that we are gaining war chariots fast.

I think that when the two WC's currently being produced arrive at the battle front, we'll have enough to take out the two archers currently in the copper city, so if Catherine hasn't built another one by then that one city could go down I think.

We don't want to attack with insufficient forces as losing will just strengthen the defenders by giving them promotions, and they'll heal before our next wave arrives.

I seem to remember though that there's about 3 WC's near that city already, and two more are nearly finished in Memphis and Thebes, so it would be a matter of having those two newly produced ones arrive, then attacking the first city wouldn't it? Someone please correct me if I'm remembering wrong here!

 

[KingdomBrunel]

I don't think there's any rush to get things played tonight. I think a good 24 or 48 hour pause every week or so while we consider where we're going to go next is a good idea. It needs to be that long to give everyone time to comment.

Had a further thought on the war. We know Catherine's sent a settler overseas don't we. Once she's down to her final mainland city, is it worth suing for peace to try and get this city? We need to bear in mind that this city could have copper too, and if it's coastal, it may start supplying it back to the mainland. Perhaps we need to include a galley in our build plans somewhere? Feel free to correct me if that logic doesn't hold true!

 

[Frederiksberg]

I think that when the two WC's currently being produced arrive at the battle front, we'll have enough to take out the two archers currently in the copper city, so if Catherine hasn't built another one by then that one city could go down I think.

We don't want to attack with insufficient forces as losing will just strengthen the defenders by giving them promotions, and they'll heal before our next wave arrives.

I seem to remember though that there's about 3 WC's near that city already, and two more are nearly finished in Memphis and Thebes, so it would be a matter of having those two newly produced ones arrive, then attacking the first city wouldn't it? Someone please correct me if I'm remembering wrong here!

In principle you are right. 5 WC's should be enough against 2 archers. But in that case we don't have any units for pillaging and blocking the reinforcements that might come from Moscow. Also we need to keep an eye on the second copper location near Novgorod. But maybe we can still manage to do that. It's hard to predict and I think the player going next has to evaluate the best course turn by turn as events unfold. We don't know when a third archer will be built in St. Petersburg and if we can hit them before that happens your plan could easily be the best.

 

[radiopill]

I don't think there's any rush to get things played tonight. I think a good 24 or 48 hour pause every week or so while we consider where we're going to go next is a good idea. It needs to be that long to give everyone time to comment.

Had a further thought on the war. We know Catherine's sent a settler overseas don't we. Once she's down to her final mainland city, is it worth suing for peace to try and get this city? We need to bear in mind that this city could have copper too, and if it's coastal, it may start supplying it back to the mainland. Perhaps we need to include a galley in our build plans somewhere? Feel free to correct me if that logic doesn't hold true!

Ok, let's go with the original roster, there's no hurry...

If we want to chase the overseas city of Cathy, we need to research sailing, and we need a coastal city at the right coast (south coast)... not like Memphis (north coast)...

In principle you are right. 5 WC's should be enough against 2 archers. But in that case we don't have any units for pillaging and blocking the reinforcements that might come from Moscow.

The sooner we get copper, the sooner we can pump axemen...

 

[Frederiksberg]

Ok, let's go with the original roster, there's no hurry...

Allright, I can wait

The sooner we get copper, the sooner we can pump axemen...

That seems to favor the early attack! Lets hope we can get 5 WC's to St. P. before it builds a third archer!

 

[BSouder]

For the disposition of the WCs...

1 new one is sitting on the cow next to St. Petsersburg, and 1 other new one is 1 move away. Both have experience from barracks but are un-promoted.

There is a third one 1 square away (hill or jungle square) with a combat 1 promotion, but he has 7 or 8 turns left to be fully healed.

Our 4th WC has 0 experience and is about 3 turns from St. Petersburg currenly. He just pillaged a gem mine (got a good chunk of gold from that too ) and is eyeing the mines north of Moscow.

My recommendation would be to take the 2 new ones and the 2 more that will be built next turn and use them as the main attack force. I would keep the currently injured one basically where he is to deter re-inforcements from Moscow sneaking in, then move him up when we are going to attack to be a 5th attacker as a safety net in case we get bad rolls against the 2 archers.