SGOTM 01 - Team One

Harok · May 21, 2006

I think I have already given my input but a quick recap....

I see the advantages to keeping Cyrus around and using him as a trade partner and I support that if the majority think it is best. However IMO we should take him out now by going Construction and getting some cats built ASAP to knock down his 40% or more culture defense and hurt the units some before Chariots take him out. This is our last chance to use our UU by the time we get Astronomy they will be useless.

On another note, one thing to watch for is freebies from Gandhi. He is a pretty helpful guy to his friends so if we spot him with a large amount of cash it might be worthwhile to ask if he will give it to us. I seem to have pretty good luck asking for stuff from friends as long as you don't do it all the time. And also if our power chart is well above Cyrus he may give in to a demand or 2. The key is to just don't ask/demand too often.

And lastly on the use of the GS....the academy will provide a significant boost to research for the rest of the game while using it for Philosophy will get us one tech, found a religion which is pretty pointless in this game (I would go so far as to say that founding a religion may hurt more than help us) as we have already gotten a religion from Gandhi and we have no chance to outspread him at this difficulty, and the Pacifism civic that appears to go against having a lot of troops which is exactly what we plan to have to dominate the world as quickly as possible. Pacifism is a solid civic for some games I just don't see it as being that good for us with our plans.

amh52 · May 21, 2006

I finished my turn. Nothing too exciting happened but I decided to research Construction after all. So all our options are still open. I thought we would need it later anyway and it was only 7 turns to research. It should be finished in next turn so we could potentially start building Cats. We also have a source of iron near Thebes (not in the fat cross) and it should be hooked up in a few turns too if we want swords. Cyrus cities aren't very well defended but he has spears and I also saw a sword around.

T1: Alexandria finishes Courthouse, starts Lighthouse.

T2: Cyrus settles Gordium in the no man's land between us, him and Gandhi.

T3: Zzzz

T4: Finish IW, start Construction.
No Trade available

T5: Whip Courthouse in Memphis, starts Lighthouse.

T6: Zzzz

T7: Zzzz

T8: Zzzz

T9: Trade CoL to Gandhi for Meditation, Polyethism, Archery and 200 Gold
Christianity has been founded in Calcutta.

T10: Memphis finishes Lighthouse, starts Monastery

Gandhi has Priesthood, Monotheism and Literature to trade but we have nothing to exchange. Hopefully Construction next turn. Cyrus seems behind.

I was also thinking of starting the new city on the horses NW of Moscow as we had discussed earlier. We could also have another one by the Iron with the Cows.

Here is the link:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_AD0170_01.Civ4SavedGame

Mutineer · May 21, 2006

O, My analisys of situation.

We have only 5 UU free if we want to go to war.
I believe that if we Attack Cyrus, we just shot ourself in a foot.
He is week, his land is poor and he allways wiill be week. We can allway kill him.
But, if we attack him now we would loose:
1) A trade partner for tech.
2) A trade pertner for our cities. (Currently cyrys provided foreigth trade partners for thurd of our cities.) That is lot of income.
3) Will will get a huge upkeep cost for his very remote cities.
4) If we raise his cities, Gandy will take the space.

On other hand I count 4 unsettled yet city cites on our continent.

So, My suggestion would be:
1). Make cyrys one of our friends and game long trade partner.
2) settle 4 city cites on our land.
3). Develop our land and rash to Navigation.

Turn report:
Regonitiate deal with Cyrus for 2 gold.
Construction- Civil service
Seens we develop commercial capital and build academy in it we would benefit from Civil service a lot.
Obtained by trade:

Litherature, Priesthood, Monotheism,

Later= Monarchy.

Revolted to Orgonise religion and building Missionaries to use it.

Did a lot of whipping in food ritch cities, by some reason courthouses were builded befor granaries. We have higth happiness limit and it will be higher when more resources come online and we can trade with Gandy for 2 more happiness resources

Did not revolted to Monarchy, civil service in 4, suggest to revotl them to Monarchy/Burocracy.

Build worker and allmost finished setler. Suggest settle on Hourse first, as gems will pay for city stright away.

Spoiler :

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_AD0350_01.Civ4SavedGame

blastoidstalker · May 21, 2006

Good sets of turns guy's
I agree with Mutineer that defeating Cyrus would be like adding a lead weight to our body. His lands are not good which means
1) He is not much of a threat and will be easy to eliminate later
2) His lands are not worth the maintance cost of taking them, especialy since we will want to build our forbidden palace elsewhere.

Mutineer · May 21, 2006

Additional comments.
WE have litherature, but I do not think we can get Library.
WE do not have marble.

WE can build National and Heroic Epic.

National going to our destignated GP farm.
I did not decided on location of Heroic.

I would suggest to put it into higth production coastal city, later to be parred with West Point. Coastal because we would need strong fleet to win by domination.

WE can build Forbitten palace, but I think we should not.
Our land is not that spread, we would need forbitten if we take over Cyrus or inwide Oversea, Otherwize distance maintence will kill as.

blastoidstalker · May 21, 2006

I agree on location of National Epic
I think Heroic epic should go into Alexandria which i think will be our best production city in the lng run (copper and lots of hills).
Forbidden palace is not built now. We will need to build somewhere in the first over-ocean civ that we conquer (not Cyrus).

Conroe · May 22, 2006

To go to war with Cyrus for no other reason than our UU will be obsolete doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I, too, feel that we should hold off on attacking Cyrus.

After switching to beaucracy, I would like to see us put some Caravels in the water and go after the circumnavigation bonus. I think I read somewhere that we have already researched Optics and Calendar. Lets find the other AI while researching straight to Chemistry.

Until then, lets concentrate on infrastructure.

Doc TK · May 22, 2006

I agree on holding off on Cyrus temporarily. However, once we decide we want to start attacking things, then taking the Holy City (hopefully shrine) should be something to keep in mind. At that point, I expect him to be behind in tech. Hopefully we will find some other trading partners as well.

The reason I would get Courthouses going is simply to help the economy function better. Especially if we are building the additional cities. I agree that with the happiness issues, we are not going to be able to grow the cities much, but we also don't have to worry much about whipping and regrowing the cities quickly since it's a relatively small range. Either way will probably work out about the same.

So, it seems like we are agreed on heading towards Optics right? Get caravels to scout. Then to Astronomy to get Galleon. I don't see us going after anything prior to those right? Hopefully we can trade some techs along the way.

BTW - I haven't seen a roster recently and can't look at the games right now, so I'm assuming whomever is up knows it?

blastoidstalker · May 22, 2006

the roster I think:

Mutineer -
Strobe - up
Conroe- on deck
Harok
Blastoidstalker
Doc TK
amh52

Strobe · May 23, 2006

Got it !.

Will play tonight.

Our current short-term plan I think we agree on.
1. I won't war with Cyrus, may even be nice to him

2. Develop our land and will continue and look to expand further cities sooner rather than later.
3. After civil service change to Heriditary Rule & Beauracracy
4. Optics is next research path.
5. National Epic in GP Farm.
6. Build courthouses (whip after granary when possible).
7. No more units until after we build caravels.

Strobe · May 23, 2006

Settling Piramesses I think was a great move.
Notice Persepolis that Cyrus has settled. 2 crabs, 3 fish and 6 plains hills, iron and budha capital !!!! I wouldn't mind that city.
Elephantine has +3

for 49 turns, ouch ! what are you doing to my loyal citizens

Not much has been said on last few city placements we are to make. Decide we do need to continue to settle.
City on plains hill in the south, won't add much but sugar at this stage (and we don't need anymore to trade just yet). On the west coast below Thebes, equally doesn't appeal for any instant gain. Looks like settling on the horses is the best bet, we can utilise the two gems quickly and get some extra cash plus city spot is most likely ghandi or cyrus may try to settle. With Gems the city also pays for itself.

In elephantine I would normally place GP's by now when city is smaller as it grows quicker anyway, I am just not sure why we are growing bigger before getting out the first couple of cheap GP's. Presume we want to maybe whip National Epic. Not sure what to do here really so I will let it grow and leave decision until we have discussed it. I think we need to set some plans/goals for GP assignment though.

T1: Send worker to elephantine to help build farm which will not be ready for next turn growth.

T2: Elephantine grows. Assign citizen to farm.

T3: Missionary ready so send him to Thebes. Change Alexandria to settler (dont think we need market here), it will be ready in 8 turns for the next player giving us time to talk about city placement.
Another sugar connected so trade to Ghandi for Dyes.

T4: Hinduism successfully spread in Thesbes. Civil Service --> Compass (good trade tech plus harbours).
Change to Heritary RUle and Beauracracy.
Look at tech trade to Ghandi but he only has theocracy and music + 80 gold. Decide to wait a few turns and see what he gets for next tech.

T5. Another Gems hooked up, trade to Ghandi for silk. Happy now up to 14 so not bad at all.
Ghandi completes Great Library.

T6: Start building monastery in Moscow. Take a look at Persepolis, it has 5 archers, a settler and a spearman. Nothing to worry about.
Place galleys near horses in south to watch for any AI galley with settler.

T7: zzzzzzz

T8: Hinduism successfully spread in Novogorod. Elephantine still growing !. memphis to build another missionary.

T9: Move to clear jungles on last Gems. Ghandi has horse riding so don't think its worth trading yet.
Elephantine hits health limit. 60% Science.

T10: Compass --> Metal Casting (try for colossus ?).
Courthouse in Thebes complete. Change back to settler (2 turns). 70% Science (-4gpt).

Spoiler :

Nothing too exciting but things going well in general. Seems a bit too easy maybe the map will give us a surprise later

Elephantine now needs some strategy in the next turnset.

Memphis, alexandria and piramesses are set to build harbour on next turn, then maybe archers to and disband the warriors ?

Might be worth whipping a harbour or two to keep our 70% science rate and support our 2nd settler fomring a city.

Good Luck !

Save is here http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_AD0500_01.Civ4SavedGame

blastoidstalker · May 23, 2006

on GP usuage, I would switch to caste system and run merchants. Trade missions to our fute oversea ally and a bunch of Gold. Great scientists would be my next option if we have a need to keep slavery.

Mutineer · May 23, 2006

I would shift out unused UU to mainland and use them for happines. Remember we have Heridary rule?
GP farm can be very profitable pacifyed by using Military. I swould not work any hill at all, as whipping faster. It is important to whipe all health buildinga nd National there befor we let it grow to maximum optimum size for specialists and finanlly assign a lot of specialists.
We can stay in slavery if we whipe could of temples there to.
In that case we could run 2 scientist+2 merchants + 2 priests there with out castle system. We can find the use for any of this GP.

Harok · May 23, 2006

Personally I would like one more Great Scientist for either another academy or joining to the capital which would get us to Astronomy sooner. After that I would push for Great Merchants as we may be back at war for the rest of the game by the time we get to that point and could use the extra cash.

Or we could just push for artist and try to get Gandhi's cities to flip to us, until we wipe him out that way.

blastoidstalker · May 24, 2006

I like Harok's suggestion of great scientist first then great merchants. We probably can stay in slavery with the great scientist build then switch to caste system when we are ready for war to generate great merchants. Caste system is also usefull for getting specilists for a culture or money blitz in recently acquired cities once we we start our next war. But for now I agree that slavery is proably more useful.

blastoidstalker · May 24, 2006

Roster:

Mutineer -
Strobe -
Conroe- up
Harok - on deck
Blastoidstalker
Doc TK
amh52

Conroe · May 24, 2006

Got it. Won't be able to play it for about 24 hours, though.

Strobe · May 24, 2006

If we want a scientist next then I would whip a Library immediately in Elephantine and set the 2 scientists up. An Aqueduct also needs whipping to get health closer to ahppy limit. I would not whip NE yet otherwise you may not get a scientist.

Couple of additional units will be needed to help with happy faces in Elephantine.

Following that I would normaly set merchants and go for trade mission when I am going for domination. It gives instant cash which helps fund war but also helps get to key military techs that little bit earlier.

Caste System isn't a problem, since we are spiritual we can just switch on the turn we need to assign the GPs.

Not sure I would bring back unused chariots from Cyrus lands, he is indeed very weak but with only 4 spears he could currently decimate us. We could move the sentry chariots from his lands though back to ours to reduce maintenance ? Following this theme I would also start replacing warriors with archers, the AI has an uncanny ability to attack weak cities. I'm possibly being a bit over cautious but that is the weakness in my playing style.

I think next city should on top of horses on south west coast. Access to Gems will pay for itself.

We have trade routes of 4gpt in most cities so getting the harbours now available running in all coast cities should be a priority and will fund the new cities.

Metal Casting is only 7 turns away. Going after the Colossus I think would be worth a try as we have a lot of coastal towns.

Doc TK · May 24, 2006

I agree with Mutineer about using the Chariots to help with Happiness. Maybe we leave one in case, but if our relation with Cyrus is relatively good he probably won't attack. If you think he's going to attack, then we should be killing him.

FYI - I'm out this weekend (including Monday) which looks like roughly when my next turn would be. If that's the case, feel free to skip me or I can swap with the next person or whatever.

Harok · May 24, 2006

As I have stated before I have never played a SG so I don't know the ins and outs of etiquette and rules, but I would hate for Doc to get skipped. I plan to be around all weekend so if no one minds and it isn't against some rule I would be willing to swap with him for this round.

Just let me know.

SGOTM 01 - Team One

Vagabond

Warlord

Deity

The Geographer

Deity

The Geographer

√∞

Warlord

The Geographer

Warlord

Warlord

The Geographer

Deity

Vagabond

The Geographer

The Geographer

√∞

Warlord

Warlord

Vagabond

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