SGOTM 01 - Team One

[Strobe]

Added screenshot of bombay, but I didn't think to take one when I was next to it.

 

[Conroe]

Got It ... will play turns tonight.

With Ghandi so close and always relatively weak military wise, killing him early may also be worthwhile

I downloaded the save and took a look to see where Gandhi was located. The first thing that I notice is that we are not allowed to declare war on Gandhi. So, conquering him is out of the question. Here is a map of the known world, though:

I really like Mutineer's dot map. Memphis is 2 turns from a Settler which I will send to red dot. Thebes is 4 turns from a Settler for yellow dot. That is assuming that no one has any objections to this arrangement ...

Moscow is currently building a Library. I'm thinking of switching it to a Settler if there are no objections.

Unless I overlooked it somewhere, Mutineer did not do a dot map of the old Russian lands. Here is one that I came up with. Note that we will need Iron Working to clear all of that jungle to make use of the rice and gems.

We have 16 gold in the bank with 70% on the research slider. There are 14 turns until Currency and another 22 turns until Code of Laws. The big concern is can we afford 3 more cities. But, Mutineer is correct that we need more expansion.

 

[Strobe]

I completely forgot about the locked in peace with unknown civilization. Not unknown anymore I guess.

I have no problem with the expansion, we can currently maintain 60% science and with 2 of the proposed cities have silver or gems it should be okay.

I like your city layout for russian lands .

 

[Harok]

Wow busy morning!!

I agree with not razing St Pete's after the copper showed up there but no biggie. Mutineer's and Conroe's dot maps look good to me. It has been awhile since I looked at one of the saves but I don't mind a short dip in the science rate while our cottages (assuming we have a number of them) are developing and courthouses are on the way.

Alphabet may be worthwhile now also to trade with Gandhi. Hopefully he will be willing to trade. It would be really nice if we could find another civ or 2. We really need to pump tech pace right now to get to Astronomy unless that land mass contains most of the world.

Great work everyone.

 

[amh52]

Sorry for razing StPetes. But it was size 1 and didn't look good when I took it. Also I was under the impression that we wanted to raze it to build in a better spot. Anyway I am sure those new yellow dots will do miracles for us in the future so that at the end it will look like it was a good move.

It'd be cool if Gandhi could spread his religions to us. That would help with happiness issue.

 

[Mutineer]

I hope we open border with Gandy.

We should not do anything which will have long tern bad consiquences, as we would want to create permanent alliance with Gandy as soon as posible.

I would not build any more military.
If you need place holder, build acveduc.

We have 2 needs rigth now:

1) Generate GS for philosofy. Some where where city ha slibrary we need to hire 2 scientists, so the moment we got COL we can get philosofy.
There allredy a big chance we are to late for that. If we loose philosofy and would not get Thaoism we are really loose a lot. Gandy could spread religion to as, but it would not happened soon.

2) We could and probubly should build Harden Garden. Never underestimate 1 health and one population per city is good to.

So, we have 3 needs in order of priorities as I see them.
1) expand
2) GS
3) Garden

 

[Harok]

I agree with Mutineer about not needing more military right now (I could change my mind if we find someone else on Gahndi's landmass as I love to ) and I also agree with wanting to generate a GS. I just disagree on the use of it, as I would build an academy in Thebes. Getting a religion from Gandhi would be perfect as sharing a religion will help build our relationship instead of having different ones hurting it.

Hanging Gardens is an interesting idea with our floodplain health issues but it is a large investment. I am interested in others thoughts on it.

 

[blastoidstalker]

I agree with Mutineer as well, we do not need military till we see what we are up against. Better to put into settler and infrastructure.

I think Hanging Garden is a good idea, though it is better in typical GOTM where score is what counts not speed. If we can hit it when we got a couple of the new cities started it could be a big boost, especialy to the red city (free ocean tile and 2 commerece). It also makes great engineer points which are very usefull, espicaly for rapidly putting versailles or forbidden palace in a recently conquested capital or other city on another contenent. I would build it in memphis. The AI often ignores it so I think we have a good shot at it.

So Gahndi is our friend. To bad as I was about to suggest sending all our war chariots over and burning every single one of his imporvements to the ground.

I do think we should build a galley and get a war chariot or something over there to scout though.

 

[Conroe]

Turn 0 - 550BC: I preempt the Library build in Moscow for a Settler. I also notice that Moscow is down to 5 turns of whip unhappiness. Once some hammers are invested in the Settler, I want to whip it out.

I also like the suggestion of hiring a couple of scientists. However, I don't want it to impact the build times for our Settlers, so I've decided to delay the hiring ...

Turn 1 - 535BC:

Turn 2 - 520BC: Hinduism has spread to Memphis! I want to delay the revolt until Thebes' Settler is ready. Gandhi, by the way, is the founder of Hinduism.

Meanwhile, Memphis completes a Settler for red dot and begins construction of an Aqueduct.

Turn 3 - 505BC: The city of Heliopolis is founded at the site of red dot. I start it building a Lighthouse, as it will need access to food to grow. City maintenance forces me to lower the research slider down a notch to 60%.

Meanwhile, I the Settler in Moscow.

Turn 4 - 490BC: Moscow completes the whipped Settler and resumes construction of a Library. Thebes completes the Settler for yellow dot. It starts construction of an Aqueduct, as well. I go ahead and hire 2 scientist in Thebes. It will take 25 turns before a Great Scientist is born.

The silver mine at Heliopolis will be delayed. I didn't realize that the Workers building the road had been automated.

The research slider is reduced to 50% as unit costs and civic upkeep are rising. We are breakeven with 1 gold in the bank. Currency is due in 11 turns.

Turn 5 - 475BC:

Turn 6 - 460BC: Elephantine is founded at the site of yellow dot. It begins construction of a Work Boat. For some odd reason, city maintenance costs do not result in a change in our cash flow.

Alexandria is founded on the desert tile north of the ruins of St. Petersburg. This city also begins construction of a Work Boat. This city does have a significant impact to our cash flow, costing us a total of 6gpt in city maintenance. I lower the research slider to 40% to compensate. Currency is now due in 11 turns.

Turn 7 - 445BC: Novgorod completes its Granary. I would really like to build another Worker, but I'm concerned about our unit costs as it is. Instead, I start it on a Lighthouse.

Turn 8 - 430BC:

Turn 9 - 415BC: The silver mine is complete at Heliopolis, although a road remains to be constructed to bring the silver online. By stagnating the growth in Heliopolis, the build time for the Lighthouse is cut by a third. Plus, enough cash is being generated to pay for a couple more Workers.

I preempt the Lighthouse build in Novgorod for a Worker, due in 10 turns.

Turn 10 - 400BC: Moscow completes its Library and starts a Worker.

Notes: Memphis has 1 angry citizen. Once the silver mine is connected to the trade network (3 turns), he will go back to work. Or, better yet, convert to Hinduism. I completely forgot to do that once the Settlers were ready. Also, there is a Worker north of Moscow. He should be sent to Alexandria to get the resource tiles improved. After that, we need to get some Workers over to Elephantine. We currently have 4 Workers with 2 more due in 9 turns.

Our Island:

Our World:

And the save ...

 

[Conroe]

Roster Check:
Mutineer
Strobe
Conroe - Just Played
Harok - UP
Blastoidstalker - On Deck
Doc TK
amh52




FYI - I will be unavailable from Thursday May 18th until Sunday May 21st. If my turn comes up again before then, please go ahead and skip me. I doubt that it will be an issue, though. Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

[Doc TK]

Wow a lot has happened.

Why are we building an Aqueduct in Memphis? It has 9/6 on health?

We need to get a galley going so we can explore the land south west of us. It looks to be pretty big so I'd suspect there's another civ there.

We need to get our infrastructure in a lot better shape. So Memphis could be creating Work Boats for new city, Galley, Workers (since its over happy limit).

Also, let's keep our eye on supply cost. We have an extra War Chariot outside our borders which costs us 1 per turn. And since we are a long way away from Monarchy/Heredity, I'm tempted to dump a few warriors to save on unit costs. However, since we have got a Galley down to get units on the new land, I'm not as confident on that move, maybe get a Galley moving in Memphis ASAP, have it work on workers next.

Also, I don't think we need new cities right now. There were a couple more called for in the dot map, but we need to clean up what we have first and new cities are going to be a net commerce loss for quite a while.

On Thebes, once we get the silver going (3 turns?) we will have room for one more citizen. I'd suggest we reduce the number of scientists to 1 for a few turns to allow us to use the cows to grow to one more and then bump it back to 2. Possibly get a new cottage next to it.

I personally try to keep new cities working on buildings, e.g., Granaries, Lighthouses, etc. and have some of the older cities produce workboats to let the new ones grow faster for whipping etc.

After Currency, I'd like us to switch to Alpha to trade with Ghandi, but also to be in position when/if we meet another civ on that land mass. It might allow us to use our Chariots to do some attacking to extort some tech as well.

 

[Mutineer]

>Why are we building an Aqueduct in Memphis? It has 9/6 on health?

Isuspect people decided to build Harden Garden there

>We need to get a galley going so we can explore the land south west of us.

We allredy have work boat doing that.

>After Currency, I'd like us to switch to Alpha to trade with Ghandi, but also >to be in position when/if we meet another civ on that land mass.

To late, we need Col as soon as posible.

 

[Conroe]

You raise some good points, Doc. At the beginning of my turns, our #1 priority was expansion. After founding 3 additional cities and lowering the research slider to 40%, we cannot afford any new cities. I also found during my turns that we are being handicapped by only having 4 Workers. To that end, I started building 2 more Workers. And, as you noted, we could probably use a few more.

We also need to see about getting our research slider back up to 50% at least, maybe 60%. Code of Laws is an expensive tech.

I suggest giving Worker priority to Elephantine and Alexandria. Once the silver mine is online at Heliopolis, get those workers down south to Elephantine. Alexandria will be a good production city once the copper and cows are improved.

On a related note: Will Elephantine, the flood plains city, be a commerce city or a GP Farm? We need to decide now so that we know whether to build cottages or farms.

We have an extra War Chariot outside our borders which costs us 1 per turn.

All of the units outside of our territory have been positioned as "fog-busters", to prevent the spawning of any barbarians.


Oh, and one more thing: We need to convert to Hinduism!

 

[Mutineer]

I did believe that we allredy decided Elephantine to be a parmanent GP farm, as it popentially have biggest food excess of all our cities.

 

[Doc TK]

The reason I'd like to see a Galley is that we might be able to put our Chariots back to work on a new Civ assuming there's one or more on the new continent. It looks big enough to have two civs (roughly similar size to ours). It would be nice to be able to get stuff going across to it, but I can understand waiting to see if we run into another Civ. If we do, can we commit to trying to get guys across to scout and possibly attack?

Did we decide on going for the Hanging Gardens? Okay, I missed that discussion, but there was a lot, so easy to miss. I would have voted for getting a galley, work boats and workers going instead of Aqua and Hanging Gardens in that city.

To me, right now, I'm not that worried bout fog busting since we've got plenty to kill anything that pops up. I'm more worried about saving gold. But, if people want to keep extra guys around to be safe, I'm okay with that. Let's just make it a conscious decision.

When are we planning to go after Alpha? After CoL? Or are we skipping it? Seems like Ghandi has to have some stuff to trade, but we might not have any techs to trade with him.

Maybe someone can summarize what the overall strategy is at this point (tech, research, religion, city builds). We may be able to hop over to another land mass or find a bunch of civs, but likely there will be one or two found fairly shortly. Given that we find one or two more via workboat travels, what is the plan?

 

[Strobe]

With only Ghandi found so far and no war possible, strategy is to expand as fast as is sensible making the most use of our current land until we can get more.

We have some good land and cities with Happiness being our only major issue at the moment.

I think COL is best tech to ensure we can continue expanding, then alpha to trade with Ghandi. After that needs some discussion.

It would be nice to scout out Ghandi's land at some point with a unit, requiring a Galley but it is not too urgent.

If we don't find another AI soon this will become our biggest problem, bearing in mind we have to try for a fast domination victory.

If we do find another AI then we will need to make a strategy at that point.

I think we should have GP Farm at elephantine.

 

[Harok]

I will play tonight. Current plan before I have opened the save.....

1) Convert to Hinduism. Switch production in Memphis to a monastery which I will probably whip. Build a Hindu missionary to spread it to Thebes which will also build a monastery for the increase in science.

2) Research CoL. I have never waited so long to get Alphabet before and I am nervous about that but our expansion (which I totally agree with the cities we built) makes CoL our biggest research need. If we don't get it soon and some courthouses built our science rate is going to tank and we won't have anything to trade with Alpha anyway. If we use the upcoming GS for an academy in Thebes, along with a monastery, and a couple of Courthouses our research should take a DRAMATIC increase.

3) Build a galley. I hate not having a single one considering how close that land mass is. We may decide to try to settle a city there to get a foothold, find a civ we want to attack before Chariots are worthless, or just get a unit over there to scout around but I think the potential benefits are too big to not make one.

4) Workers will look at getting the new cities profitable/useful.

I agree with Elephantine as our Great Person factory but not sure if I will be able to do anything about it in my turnset.

Long term research I think we need to start looking at getting to Optics/Astronomy as soon as possible. If we can find someone to attack Construction for cats would be great and Guilds (and later Military Tradition) might make sense for us as we could upgrade our most veteran Chariots. We really need to focus on techs that will get us to our goal of fast domination. We need to reach the enemy and have units capable of taking them down.

EDIT >> Actually I don't think we can build monasteries yet so that part of the plan will need edited.

 

[Doc TK]

2) Research CoL. I have never waited so long to get Alphabet before and I am nervous about that but our expansion (which I totally agree with the cities we built) makes CoL our biggest research need. If we don't get it soon and some courthouses built our science rate is going to tank and we won't have anything to trade with Alpha anyway. If we use the upcoming GS for an academy in Thebes, along with a monastery, and a couple of Courthouses our research should take a DRAMATIC increase.

Sounds good to me, but I would add that we should look at Alpha after CoL depending on what we find. Probably not an issue during your turnset, but will be for next person.

3) Build a galley. I hate not having a single one considering how close that land mass is. We may decide to try to settle a city there to get a foothold, find a civ we want to attack before Chariots are worthless, or just get a unit over there to scout around but I think the potential benefits are too big to not make one.

I agree, but given your build above, may need to wait until after Memphis gets other stuff done.

I agree with Elephantine as our Great Person factory but not sure if I will be able to do anything about it in my turnset.

What do people want built in a GP factory city? I think having it build a workboat (instead of getting it built by Thebes) is not the best.

Long term research I think we need to start looking at getting to Optics/Astronomy as soon as possible. If we can find someone to attack Construction for cats would be great and Guilds (and later Military Tradition) might make sense for us as we could upgrade our most veteran Chariots. We really need to focus on techs that will get us to our goal of fast domination. We need to reach the enemy and have units capable of taking them down.

I agree about Optics route soon after CoL and Alpha depending on what we find.

 

[amh52]

Do we want to research Meditation before (or after CoL) so we can build Manasteries? It is pretty cheap.

Can we afford to skip Alpha and hope that Gandhi will get it soon enough? That would allow us to research more advanced techs and we would then have something useful to trade to him.

Otherwise I agree that Optics/Astronomy should be our long term goals. Maybe start with Calendar so we can work the Sugar.

I would not settle on Gandhi's island as we want to keep him as pleased with us as possible. That could change if we find another AI on his island but for now I would abstain. Also I would wait to build a Galley until our Workboat has finished exploring.

 

[Mutineer]

WE do not need to keep Gandy as please as posible at all time. If we have religious differences, it is temporal, He can not declare on as, so it does not mean anything.
The only thinks we need to avoide is to do any LONG turn damage to our relationship.
So, we give him what ever he demand, etc.


WE need to generate GS for philosofy. It is absolutly key technology and will give as Pacifism.