Frederiksberg
Deity
Some pics:
Timbuktu:
Carthage:
Athens:
Nearest iron:
Timbuktu:
Spoiler :
Carthage:
Spoiler :
Athens:
Spoiler :
Nearest iron:
Spoiler :
SGOTM 06 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Frederiksberg
Deity
Frederiksberg
Deity
That early defeat did give me a bad feeling and it was even worse when the bear damaged our axe and slowed him by 4 turns.
Now I'm wondering how the odds are for our CR2 axe against a fortified archer in a 20% culture city
.
Now I'm wondering how the odds are for our CR2 axe against a fortified archer in a 20% culture city
.
Jimmy Thunder
King
Great stuff !!!
The fall of Timbuktu is awesome news, and with a worker to boot!
Both Athens and Carthage are EXCELLENT city sites, we did the right thing by stopping them hook up resources.
I will have a look at the save and gather thoughts over the next few days as we discuss the way forward.
All I can say is that between ShannonCT and Frederiksberg we have the perfect start!
The fall of Timbuktu is awesome news, and with a worker to boot!
Both Athens and Carthage are EXCELLENT city sites, we did the right thing by stopping them hook up resources.
I will have a look at the save and gather thoughts over the next few days as we discuss the way forward.
All I can say is that between ShannonCT and Frederiksberg we have the perfect start!
Frederiksberg
Deity
A couple of thoughts: We really need a border expansion in Timbuktu and we can get Mysticism in 4 and then let the worker chop an obelisk. We should also build a road from London to the river that runs past Timbuktu thus connecting resources - primarily copper. I'm not sure how we can best handle the remaining AI. A fast rush? Or maybe let them live until we have swords. It shouldn't be a problem to control them if we send some axes to both cities.
ShannonCT
Deity
Awesome turnset Fred! It's a Festivus miracle!
Losing the warrior in exchange for Timbuktu is the deal of the century. If we get two axemen each guarding Athens and Carthage, we will own the continent. I think we can execute the plan of picking off settler parties and forcing the AI into futile attempts to found a second city.
Then the question is: how do we best exploit this huge advantage we have? We need to figure out what the borders of our continent look like and whether we need Astronomy, what tech path gets us to the final three AI the quickest, whether to build the Oracle, where to host a GP farm (Timbuktu?), and when exactly to dispatch Greece and Carthage.
I wonder if someone could post a few pics of our continent for me since I can't open the save for a while. Thanks!
Losing the warrior in exchange for Timbuktu is the deal of the century. If we get two axemen each guarding Athens and Carthage, we will own the continent. I think we can execute the plan of picking off settler parties and forcing the AI into futile attempts to found a second city.
Then the question is: how do we best exploit this huge advantage we have? We need to figure out what the borders of our continent look like and whether we need Astronomy, what tech path gets us to the final three AI the quickest, whether to build the Oracle, where to host a GP farm (Timbuktu?), and when exactly to dispatch Greece and Carthage.
I wonder if someone could post a few pics of our continent for me since I can't open the save for a while. Thanks!
Jimmy Thunder
King
I wouldn't want to fast-rush Alex with his archers on the hill.
Hannibal - we could risk our CR2 axe if he still only has one unpromoted archer, i think we will be favourites for the battle at 5.0 vs 4.5 = 63% (+1 archer first strike).
http://c4combat.narod.ru/c4c.htm
I think a better approach might be to have 3-4 axes next to Carthage and wait until he sends out his first settler escort. Then we either strike his settler or strike his capital with the reduced garrison (or both!).
There is no immediate rush to take our neighbours out, but we have the luxury of being able to contemplate their early exit since we have begun to get a stranglehold on the continent.
Hannibal - we could risk our CR2 axe if he still only has one unpromoted archer, i think we will be favourites for the battle at 5.0 vs 4.5 = 63% (+1 archer first strike).
http://c4combat.narod.ru/c4c.htm
I think a better approach might be to have 3-4 axes next to Carthage and wait until he sends out his first settler escort. Then we either strike his settler or strike his capital with the reduced garrison (or both!).
There is no immediate rush to take our neighbours out, but we have the luxury of being able to contemplate their early exit since we have begun to get a stranglehold on the continent.
Jimmy Thunder
King
ShannonCT
Deity
Double post
ShannonCT
Deity
That's nice. If we strike the settler party first, we could get some extra City Raider upgrades for our axes. We could execute this plan quite soon if we don't build barracks in London and York first. Timbuktu can take care of our worker and settler needs in the meantime. I am strongly in favor of settling City 3 in the previously discussed location so we can chop a wonder, hook stone, and start turning wood into gold so our tech rate doesn't suffer with our because of our far flung empire.
And we never had to lay eyes on a single SKIRMISHER!!
Just as you predicted.
Great turn set, great press release. Hard to imagine we could have done much better. I'd be interested for our graph gurus will compare ours to the competition when the info is available.
Excellent turn set Fred!! 
Looks like it came a bit early!!Actually, I think the whole team did a great job in figuring this thing out. Now we have to build on this success.
Roster:
rrau - UP
Cactus Pete - On Deck
Jimmy Thunder
Leif
ShannonCT
Frederiksberg
Gator - recovering comfortably I hope.
At this point, I think it is time to take a short break. I think rrau can post a plan once family has departed and Christmas is winding down. The time can be used for the rest of us to test out various scenarios and assist with planning the next moves. Only problem may be the three days of reading required before rrau can finish a plan?
Nice work thus far, let's keep it up!!
I must admit that building the Oracle and shooting for Code of Laws is looking pretty good to me right now. I like the idea of sending some Axes down to visit Carthage and Athens in order to keep them backward so we can take them at some point. Carthage looks like it could be a problem as it has Fish and Clams connected and can pop rush defenders, not a pretty site. So I think we should think about whether to take it or wait for Cats?
For Shannon, here are some piccies for you of the continent.
The northern two-thirds:
The southern two-thirds:
Do we need a mock up of the continent from World Builder. I might be able to create something by the end of the weekend? I hope
EDIT - Almost forgot. Founding a city on the Iron south of London could be a possibility given the Fish resource offshore? It would give us Iron, two Gold Hills, a plains Cow and a Fish, not too shabby?
For Shannon, here are some piccies for you of the continent.
The northern two-thirds:
The southern two-thirds:
Do we need a mock up of the continent from World Builder. I might be able to create something by the end of the weekend? I hope
EDIT - Almost forgot. Founding a city on the Iron south of London could be a possibility given the Fish resource offshore? It would give us Iron, two Gold Hills, a plains Cow and a Fish, not too shabby?
ShannonCT
Deity
Thanks for the pics Lief. I've overlayed a proposed road network.
Roads:
The fastest way to connect Timbuktu would be to build a road from London to the river, but I don't know that such a route would be very useful otherwise. We could instead build roads up toward the proposed City 3 site (or City 4, now that Timbuktu is City 3
) from both directions. Then, we also need roads leading toward Carthage, and then Athens. There are some nice potential city sites along those routes as well. Warriors should suffice to protect our road crews while barbs are mostly warriors.
Roads:
Spoiler :
The fastest way to connect Timbuktu would be to build a road from London to the river, but I don't know that such a route would be very useful otherwise. We could instead build roads up toward the proposed City 3 site (or City 4, now that Timbuktu is City 3
) from both directions. Then, we also need roads leading toward Carthage, and then Athens. There are some nice potential city sites along those routes as well. Warriors should suffice to protect our road crews while barbs are mostly warriors.In looking over the map, there are multiple good city sites, but I'm not seeing any new site (including the previously proposed ones to the NE, near the horses) that will be very useful before it expands, and expansion is many turns away.
I haven't thought this through, but I'd like to at least consider settling our next city on the iron (as leif suggested) and just working one gold hill until a means of expansion becomes available. Once the iron is settled, then we could concentrate on promoting enough swords and existing axes to take over capitals (or at least Carthage) until expansion is possible. I'm wondering how fast we could get to CoL working three gold mines.
Also, continued exploration of our continent, including the penninsula to our west, should be part of the next turn set.
I haven't thought this through, but I'd like to at least consider settling our next city on the iron (as leif suggested) and just working one gold hill until a means of expansion becomes available. Once the iron is settled, then we could concentrate on promoting enough swords and existing axes to take over capitals (or at least Carthage) until expansion is possible. I'm wondering how fast we could get to CoL working three gold mines.
Also, continued exploration of our continent, including the penninsula to our west, should be part of the next turn set.
Jimmy Thunder
King
EDIT: OOPS I miscalculated the cost of Stonehenge (120 instead of 180) and forgot that CoL also gives us the chance to make artist specialist....
Oh well, I better head to bed before I make any more boo-boos
I've spent some time going blurry-eyed looking at the save and I have a tentative proposal:
We spend the next turnset going combat-light and builder-heavy.
I like leif's ironspot for our next (4th) city. With the gold coming online we get to construction faster (which is a boon now that we also have easy access to ivory). Also, with the assurance of swords in the future we can lay off building too many axes since we won't be using them to capture cities.
Our next BIG move should be building the Stonehenge.
Thinking back about the Oracle suggestion, as well as diverting our immediate research, we won't have a reliable way of spreading the religion (border expansion) to further cities. We need Meditation for monasteries but we don't want it incase we need to bulb our way to Astronomy in the shortest period of time.
I think we can build Stonehenge in Timbuktu in 20 turns time with this plan. [Whip monument and chop 4 forests for the Henge.]
Spoiler :
As far as military goes, we keep our axes in place outside AI capitals (don't risk the Carthage attack - we don't really need that city right now anyway), send our woodsman warrior exploring around the coast, build enough axes to defend our core, and if we have spare we send them to Hannibal to fish for settler escorts.
Research:
Myst->Writing->Math (the beeline for construction and also get superforest chops soon for making our sword army)
5th city goes on top of the northernmost of the 4 ivories. It gives us elephants and horses, can connect to iron easily from the river, has more food and production potential than our northern horses site, has enough forests to chop into a good sword army once maths is in and is close to our enemies.
Spoiler :
This also saves our northern horse site for later on with a ripe 12 forests in the fat cross incase we chop/whip/walls = gold.
PS: We need 781 tiles for domination, we have 348 land tiles visible on our continent and an estimated (CONSERVATIVE) 80 land tiles on our continent behind the black fog.
EDIT: PPS: London's border pops for the second time in 3 turns.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Jimmy Thunder said:I wouldn't want to fast-rush Alex with his archers on the hill.
Hannibal - we could risk our CR2 axe if he still only has one unpromoted archer, i think we will be favourites for the battle at 5.0 vs 4.5 = 63% (+1 archer first strike).
http://c4combat.narod.ru/c4c.htm
I think a better approach might be to have 3-4 axes next to Carthage and wait until he sends out his first settler escort. Then we either strike his settler or strike his capital with the reduced garrison (or both!).
There is no immediate rush to take our neighbours out, but we have the luxury of being able to contemplate their early exit since we have begun to get a stranglehold on the continent.
I don't like those odds either. Better get another axe down there soon to intercept settlers leaving Carthage.
Cactus Pete said:
Settling on the iron sounds like a good option since this city could work both gold hills after expansion.
Cactus Pete said:
I would be tempted to build a 2nd work boat for exploration - it's crucial to determine as early as possible if we can stop research and go all in for an attack on some of the 3 unknown AI.
ShannonCT said:
Your proposal for a road south connecting London and the proposed Iron city needs only to be extended by 2 tiles to connect to the river running past Timbuktu so I think this is clearly worth doing. Not only do we get access to copper and gold in Carthage but we also gain 2gpt.
I'm not sure how long we can rely on barbs being only warriors - what does the testing suggest? A warrior does not defend well against archers.
Regarding the Oracle discussion I don't think the CoL slingshot is interesting if it involves chopping before Math. I would rather do the hammers for gold conversion suggested by Shannon after Math when we get more hammers from each forest and thus more gold. Would the slingshot be possible after Math? Probably it's too late but we have to remember that this is Prince level... And maybe we could go for a more expensive tech than CoL?
Frederiksberg
Deity
Yes, that would be very interesting. I would like to know how many teams decided to pay Mansa an early visit with an axe. Those who come too late and find fortified skirmishers in a hill top city will have great difficulty taking Timbuktu early on. Looking at the power graph I doubt that CRC have done the early axe rush on Mansa and it's hard to tell what the other teams have done since they have not played very far yet.
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