SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

[culdeus]

So our spy is dead?

What was the trade you did in the last turn?

I'll look at things tonight. This is a good week to play, but I will need to do it probably strictly on either wednesday or thursday night.

 

[WastinTime]

Last turn our spy was still cruising around. I don't think he got discovered.

Everyone got CS and we didn't get anything for it. Some started getting paper, so, I traded paper+compass for feudal+lit. Otherwise we might not get feudal without giving away something huge like edu or ppress. This was the first turn Lit was available.

 

[Mesix]

@mesix: I can't verify the Temple of Artemis is in Delhi as you had listed it.

Spoiler :

The mouse over went away as I hit "print screen" to get the screen grab. ToA is the third wonder pictured.

 

[Mesix]

I analyzed the latest save and updated the list of World Wonders that have been built:

Fifthberg (Fifth Element)
-Great Lighthouse
-Colossus

Parma (Fifth Element)
-Oracle
-Kong Miao (shrine)

Engineering (Fifth Element)
-Hanging Gardens

Delhi (India)
-Angkor Wat
-Parthenon
-Notre Dame
-University of Sankore
-Apostolic Palace
-Hagia Sophia
-Statue of Zues
-Stonehenge
-Temple of Artemis
-Keshi Vishwanath (shrine)
-Temple of Solomon (shrine)

Bombay (India)
-Sistine Chapel
-Church of Nativity (shrine)

Bibracte (Celtic)
-Mausoleum of Maussollos
-Great Wall

Rome (Roman)
-Pyramids
-Chichen Itza

Antium (Roman)
-Shwedagon Paya
-Great Library

Aachen (Holy Roman Empire)
-Mahabodlli (shrine)

Changes are highlighted in red. Antium and Bombay changes are not listed on the top 5 cities, but I can see the wonders when I zoom in. If someone wants to double check that would be great as I may have missed one.

 

[Mesix]

I believe these are all that remain:

Broadway...................Mass Media
Cristo Redentor...........Radio
Eiffel Tower................Radio
Holly Wood.................Mass Media
Kremlin......................Communism
Pentagon...................Assembly Line
Rock & Roll.................Radio
Space Elevator............Robotics
Spiral Minaret..............Devine Right
Statue of Liberty.........Democracy
Taj Mahal...................Nationalism
Three Gorges Dam.......Plastics
United Nations............Mass Media
Versailles...................Devine Right

 

[Mesix]

We only have to capture 6 cities on the other continent to capture all of the AI built wonders. If we continue to tech fast, we may be able to achieve a Space Race or Diplomatic VC faster than a Domination.

Are we planning to vassalize AI civs after taking the wonder cities? Vassals will help us win a Domination, Conquest, or Diplomatic VC.

As my above posts attempt to illustrate, we need to keep our eye on the prize. The late game wonders (and all 7 corporate HQ) need to be finished before we achieve victory.

 

[WastinTime]

Since we have to attack almost everyone, I'm not seeing a Diplo win.

Space would take an extra 50-80 turns beyond our current target of t250.

Vassalizing is a problem because our wonders cities might flip back due to culture. Some vassalizing might be doable.

 

[Mesix]

As soon as you vassalize AI players they vote for you in a Diplo vote unleass they are the opposing candidate. Diplo is easy with vassals.

We are Creative so all our cities produce 2 culture and a Theaters are cheap to build for another 3. I don't see culture flipping being a problem. If you really want to ensure that they don't flip then spread Sid Sushi to each of our captured cities (again...corporations are much better than State Property).

 

[Mesix]

Looking ahead on tech:
PPress
SciMethod
Philo (free ?)
Liberalism (Free Communism -- state property)

Guilds (free?)
Banking
Economics
ReplParts
Rifling
GunP (free ?)

Engineering (free)
Chem
Steel

This looks pretty good.

I think that after Communism (we can run State Property for awhile, sigh) we should bee line Rifeling (through Gunpowder and Replaceable Parts) to get our troops upgraded.

Since we have already waited this long, I think it may be wiser to skip Guilds and Banking and trade for them. We need to concentrate on Rifeling and all the late game techs needed to build wonders. We can trade Liberalism and its prereqs with the AI players for all the early game techs (Music, Banking, et al) that we missed while we are ramping up for our conquest.

 

[WastinTime]

We need guilds/banking for repParts, so we won't be able to wait and trade for it. Normally, I'd agree with you 100% on getting guilds/bank free.

You keep saying how corps are better that stateProp. I know that they're close because it has sparked huge discussions. However, in our case, it's not close. Those debates are talking about longer games. This one should be over 10-20 turns after the corp techs are discovered.

I'm sure there is a corp focused strategy (like sushi) that might have been great, but we'd have to be trying harder to get it rolling....mmm sushi rolls.

RE Diplo: With vassals, wouldn't we be likely to hit the self-voting rule which prevents a win?

 

[Sweetacshon]

Delhi (India)
-Angkor Wat
-Parthenon
-Notre Dame
-University of Sankore
-Apostolic Palace
-Hagia Sophia
-Statue of Zues
-Stonehenge
-Temple of Artemis
-Keshi Vishwanath (shrine)
-Temple of Solomon (shrine)

Bombay (India)
-Sistine Chapel
-Church of Nativity (shrine)

Do we really want to take this guy out first? He's doing all the hard work for us.

It seems well played, WT, but I can't check the save yet. Just a point of order on the trades (not the trade content), maybe that could've waited until turn 1 of the next TS, just to allow opinions/discussion.

I noticed 5 confucian pops. Nice one. None in the HRE yet, tho. I might try and make another wonder map when I get a chance, so we can come up with a conquest route.

 

[culdeus]

God bless Ghandi. I just don't see why he has to go first either. If he keeps this up we just have to worry about our national wonders and corps.

 

[WastinTime]

I just want to get Gandhi before he gets grenadiers. And owning all those wonders would be nice (especially the shrines). But I'm open to suggestions. The war on that continent frightens and confuses me.

I ended up meeting HRE as soon as I got off the boat in Gandhi's land, so I sent the first two missionaries to G and Augustus. The 3rd is going to HRE I think. Any other spreading was free.

 

[WastinTime]

Do we really want to take this guy out first? He's doing all the hard work for us.

Yea, but look at Mesix's list. I see Gandhi doing the two DivineRight wonders and then the rest we have to build ourselves.

 

[berserks01]

I'm thinking we're gonna need to go about this more carefully.

How about taking a couple of the other AI's first, vassalize them after taking their wonders, then when we're close to the dom limit, take Gandhi for the win? We can keep Pericles as a friend to help out with the war.

 

[WastinTime]

I'm not saying I disagree, but why?

Are you sayin, let him build RockRoll, hollywood, Etower, UN, etc? That's sounding better, cus I think we'll have our hands full trying to get dom and build all those wonders.

So we let him get Grens and we take him out with Infantry.

Gandhi could also try to pull off a culture win.

 

[Mesix]

Taking Delhi will fund our economy allowing us to conduct our war and also continue to research. Building Wall Street in Delhi (along with normal buildings) will net 120 gold per turn from the two shrines.

 

[Mesix]

Vassals don't count for the self vote limit. They are still AI players and one of them could be the other candidate.

 

[Mesix]

In Minor Gauntlet 44 a few months back I was forced to play for Diplo (UN) victory as the Mongls playing against war mongors and religious zealots. My strategy was to vassalize all but one player and leave hiim landlocked (on Terra to prevent Dom limits). After building the UN the vote came up and all of my conquered vassals voted me the winner. It works like a charm.

 

[WastinTime]

Vassals don't count for the self vote limit.

I did not know that. Seems like something they mighta patched in 3.17. Are you sure?

Are you sure your vassals will vote for you? Even if annoyed?

So only if the vassal is up for vote, then he'll vote for himself?

This will need some testing, but seems like the easy way out. Domination is a lot of land.