culdeus
Emperor
What about putting some mostly harmless/useless NW in farcanal? I can't see any other use for the city at this time.
SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
greatbeyond
King
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I'll try addressing the comments one by one and I'll split into two posts. I'm sure there are some suboptimal decisions. Aren't there always? When you don't see every turn or event, it sometimes takes some explaining, or perhaps it was just poor decision making.
I only played 7 turns as requested and some builds are just place holders.
First the mea culpa (or is the plural, mea culpae? Sorry, I only know a few Latin sayings
):
Yes, I forgot about the fort, but so far didn't need it.
I did forget to examine the switch to Confucianism and your reasoning. Once we are in FR, you can't have Confucianism as your state religion. Do you still get the benefits of the 1 happy per city? I should have asked about this point.
GM:
Military:
The situation at the start is a few units on the Iron south of Evora, and lots of reinforcements coming. Evora has a small garrison and won't last against a concerted counter attack. Oporto has lots of defenders. Maybe not the best
defenders, but more than enough to resist our attackers or to attack and kill our few units. They were moved back into Evora to provide a better Garrison and await reinforcements. As it turns out, Joao did send 2 HA and a Cat to the tile adjacent to Evora that turn. The plan, as I recall, was to split into two stacks and go after Coimbra and Oporto. Coimbra appeared to be lightly defended. I had to wait 2 turns for enough new units to arrive, and they departed for their designated cities, leaving 3 defenders in Evora in case of a counter attack. Remember they had Engineering for 3 movement and the Iron tile was theirs. Meaning they could have attacked and taken it back. True, we could have then turned our units around and retaken it, but isn't that kind of a waste? In that time Opporto got 5 LBs, 2 XBs, an Axe, 2 Swords, and an Archer. I spent 1T bombarding to bring the defences down and on my last turn attacked. We had just enough units to take the city and even that wasn't certain. All it took was for the RNG to take an ugly turn.
Coimbra which had been defended by a Sword Archer and Cat had suddenly grown to 8 defenders which was more than a match for our attackers. Don't forget, Joao attacked out of Coimbra with 2 Cats, didn't lose either, and damaged our units. As much as I would have wanted to take Coimbra I don't believe it was possible. Perhaps I'm playing to conservatively?
I attached a screen shot of our Troops near Coimbra. I tried to capture a ss of the defenders, but ss in Vista lose the mouse focus when taking the ss. Defenders are 2 Cats, HA, 2 Swords, Axe, Chariot, and a LB
I did have to keep a few units in Santarem and the Ulundi area in case Joao's Carrracks had troops aboard.
Please be patient for the next post, I'll talk about cities and techs, perhaps even the future path.
I only played 7 turns as requested and some builds are just place holders.
First the mea culpa (or is the plural, mea culpae? Sorry, I only know a few Latin sayings
):Yes, I forgot about the fort, but so far didn't need it.
I did forget to examine the switch to Confucianism and your reasoning. Once we are in FR, you can't have Confucianism as your state religion. Do you still get the benefits of the 1 happy per city? I should have asked about this point.
GM:
I had forgotten to discuss this in my pre-turn write up, to see if there was any more discussion on this. I'd thought there was someone else who mentioned this earlier, but I couldn't find it. I looked at the options in addition to bulbing most of RP, Settling is a waste, a a trade mission is going to take 6 turns. I went for the immediate benefit as it seemed beelining for Rifles as quickly as possible was the general consensus. It was my decision and I hope the quicker path to Rifling pays off.
Military:
The situation at the start is a few units on the Iron south of Evora, and lots of reinforcements coming. Evora has a small garrison and won't last against a concerted counter attack. Oporto has lots of defenders. Maybe not the best
defenders, but more than enough to resist our attackers or to attack and kill our few units. They were moved back into Evora to provide a better Garrison and await reinforcements. As it turns out, Joao did send 2 HA and a Cat to the tile adjacent to Evora that turn. The plan, as I recall, was to split into two stacks and go after Coimbra and Oporto. Coimbra appeared to be lightly defended. I had to wait 2 turns for enough new units to arrive, and they departed for their designated cities, leaving 3 defenders in Evora in case of a counter attack. Remember they had Engineering for 3 movement and the Iron tile was theirs. Meaning they could have attacked and taken it back. True, we could have then turned our units around and retaken it, but isn't that kind of a waste? In that time Opporto got 5 LBs, 2 XBs, an Axe, 2 Swords, and an Archer. I spent 1T bombarding to bring the defences down and on my last turn attacked. We had just enough units to take the city and even that wasn't certain. All it took was for the RNG to take an ugly turn.
Coimbra which had been defended by a Sword Archer and Cat had suddenly grown to 8 defenders which was more than a match for our attackers. Don't forget, Joao attacked out of Coimbra with 2 Cats, didn't lose either, and damaged our units. As much as I would have wanted to take Coimbra I don't believe it was possible. Perhaps I'm playing to conservatively?
I attached a screen shot of our Troops near Coimbra. I tried to capture a ss of the defenders, but ss in Vista lose the mouse focus when taking the ss. Defenders are 2 Cats, HA, 2 Swords, Axe, Chariot, and a LB
I did have to keep a few units in Santarem and the Ulundi area in case Joao's Carrracks had troops aboard.
Please be patient for the next post, I'll talk about cities and techs, perhaps even the future path.
Attachments
berserks01
Obviously Very Confused
It varies depending on distance from our capital and size of the city. It might net up >2000 on Delhi.
Looks like we'll have to switch to Pacificism for some time ... at least til we manage to generate our needed GPeoples.
There was a sizeable counter-attack and you didn't lose much (if anyone.) It seems doubtful that you made any mistakes on the war and probably made some wise decisions that saved us from a setback. No complaint here that we only got the 1 city this TS.
FreeReligion automatically puts you in "No State Rel", but when you switch out of it, it would remember that you were in confuc and you save a turn. I neglected to mention that trick in time. I thought we were still discussing it.
FreeReligion automatically puts you in "No State Rel", but when you switch out of it, it would remember that you were in confuc and you save a turn. I neglected to mention that trick in time. I thought we were still discussing it.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
New trick learned, never switched back from FR, but if needed... can be useful.
Anyway, now it's too late.
To switch to Pacif/Confu we'll have 2 turns of anarchy, and the GP rate will hardly compensate this in few turns.
Then we have to fight with the RNG: and if we pop the wrong GP?
OTOH the GM Corps come very late (medicine, refrigeration IIRC) so we can finish before those if we have enough wonders.
Anyway my complaints on GB's TS are about the GM, not the rest, which seems well done, mainly the war.
Our tech is screaming along now, and will only get faster as we take cities. medicine/refrig are not going to be a problem, so we won't finish before then. GM should be the easiest to pop out. We should be careful to ONLY run merchants, except for engineering which will run 4 engineers. Then we should not have a problem with the RNG. We could pick one city to run artists, and aim for a very late GArtist, but if one happens to pop out of engineering (because of the NatEpic) then we turn off the artist city.
I'm gonna do some calculations. I'm afraid we may need pacifism NOW -- while it's free.
EDIT: What about caste? That's a free switch too. Now we have workshops and we need to start running merch/artists.
I'm gonna do some calculations. I'm afraid we may need pacifism NOW -- while it's free.
EDIT: What about caste? That's a free switch too. Now we have workshops and we need to start running merch/artists.
greatbeyond
King
- Joined
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- 989
Cities
Nobamba - I didn't build the Cottage or whip anyone. I didn't examine every Worker's action at the start of my TS and missed this. I did start an Observatory and have 1T in it. Perhaps it should be switched to just Units. I was trying for some more science output. As for the MM, If we work a workshop instead of the Grass/Cottage, we will grow verrry slow. Right now after we get to Pop 8 next turn, It will take us 10 - 11 turns working what we are now and an additional Workshop. I would say it is more important to grow it quickly, then when near it's happy cap, switch to enough workshops where we are stagnant in growth and use Workshops. To get even more radical, I would have irrigated the Grass 2N and then the Grass 1NE.
Parma - the forge finished last turn and I forgot to que up a Bank/Grocer/Market and forgot the LB was still in the Que. I see we also have some hammers in a LH. Not a waste, as a LH will help it grow bigger, but it can wait until the financial buildings have been completed. After the financials are done, I suggest finishing the LH, then perhaos a Baray or some units.
Far Canal - The Barracks was already started and I figured the two turns it had left weren't too much of a waste. I then started the Forg to get some kind of production out of the city. We won't be able to build wonders there at the 7hpt it was producing. To that end I also built/building two Workshops just to the east. After the Forge, we could build the Kremlin or the Nat Epic and perhaps we can GP Farm it to produce a GA. It does not have an overabundance of food though to make a lot of gpp
Ulundi - This is our best hope for a gp farm. It has plenty of food and can run quite a few specialists. We may need to irrigate a little to fine tune it.
Engineering - You're right it could have been working the Workshops. I didn't check this, but at the time we needed money more than hammers. Now that we have Banks/Markets/Grocers we could work mm to workshops until we get the financial buildings completed. It has produced only mounted units for my TS
Fifthburg - It has grown nicely and will have a Bank next turn. I completed the Temple, and Grocer (it already had a Market) and if we build a Colosseum, we can get it to size 20. At that point I think we should convert it to a gp farm.
Marbles - completed a Temple, and it will complete the back soon. Then a Market, Grocer, and CH. WE don't get a distance penalty under SP but we still pay mainteance. We'll have to build a few more CH so we can build the FP, probably in Oporto or Lisbon, it could even go in Ulundi.
Stoneopolis - This should build our Galleons (Navy) or even in a few turns a Settler so we could place a city on the eastern end of the island.
Santarem - Finish the Forge then a LH or the CH. It needs to grow.
Nongoma - Finish Library (1T) then Forge (9T) or Kremlin (20T) and then Market/Grocer/Bank
Leira - Finish Library , then CH
Evora - Finish LH then CH ?
Tech Path - Finish GP 1T, then what Rifling 2T or should we get Physics for the GS before Gandhi does? He has 2T left in Constitution.
Workers - The only two working outside our Borders right now are the two NE of Leiria. The plan was to irrigate all the way to Leiria as it is food poor. I thought the next culture pop was coming sooner than it is. You are right it would have been best to irrigate the next tile south as soon a as the Workers were done 1NE. The Workers irrigating near Santarem are doing so to help it grow quicker. We also have a crew working on getting Farcanal some Workshops.
The Worker near Nongoma should irrigate the Flood plain next, for faster growth.
Our original core is pretty much set for development at the time, and our Workers can concentrate on the underdeveloped cities we got from the Zulu and Joao.
Trades - Should we consider some resource trades for Gold? There are some available.
There aren't any techs worth trading for yet. It doesn't benefit us anything to get Music or Drama as both those wonders were built by India. We will need them before Nationalism but hopefully can trade some lesser techs for them.
War - I did look to see if Joao would give us some cities for peace. I didn't get too close with the negotiations as I didn't want to settle before we discussed it. I don't know if he will. It has been my experience so far with the patched BTS that the AI capitulates quicker but does not give up cities. We could make peace and then attack fresh as soon as we are ready.
Nobamba - I didn't build the Cottage or whip anyone. I didn't examine every Worker's action at the start of my TS and missed this. I did start an Observatory and have 1T in it. Perhaps it should be switched to just Units. I was trying for some more science output. As for the MM, If we work a workshop instead of the Grass/Cottage, we will grow verrry slow. Right now after we get to Pop 8 next turn, It will take us 10 - 11 turns working what we are now and an additional Workshop. I would say it is more important to grow it quickly, then when near it's happy cap, switch to enough workshops where we are stagnant in growth and use Workshops. To get even more radical, I would have irrigated the Grass 2N and then the Grass 1NE.
Parma - the forge finished last turn and I forgot to que up a Bank/Grocer/Market and forgot the LB was still in the Que. I see we also have some hammers in a LH. Not a waste, as a LH will help it grow bigger, but it can wait until the financial buildings have been completed. After the financials are done, I suggest finishing the LH, then perhaos a Baray or some units.
Far Canal - The Barracks was already started and I figured the two turns it had left weren't too much of a waste. I then started the Forg to get some kind of production out of the city. We won't be able to build wonders there at the 7hpt it was producing. To that end I also built/building two Workshops just to the east. After the Forge, we could build the Kremlin or the Nat Epic and perhaps we can GP Farm it to produce a GA. It does not have an overabundance of food though to make a lot of gpp
Ulundi - This is our best hope for a gp farm. It has plenty of food and can run quite a few specialists. We may need to irrigate a little to fine tune it.
Engineering - You're right it could have been working the Workshops. I didn't check this, but at the time we needed money more than hammers. Now that we have Banks/Markets/Grocers we could work mm to workshops until we get the financial buildings completed. It has produced only mounted units for my TS
Fifthburg - It has grown nicely and will have a Bank next turn. I completed the Temple, and Grocer (it already had a Market) and if we build a Colosseum, we can get it to size 20. At that point I think we should convert it to a gp farm.
Marbles - completed a Temple, and it will complete the back soon. Then a Market, Grocer, and CH. WE don't get a distance penalty under SP but we still pay mainteance. We'll have to build a few more CH so we can build the FP, probably in Oporto or Lisbon, it could even go in Ulundi.
Stoneopolis - This should build our Galleons (Navy) or even in a few turns a Settler so we could place a city on the eastern end of the island.
Santarem - Finish the Forge then a LH or the CH. It needs to grow.
Nongoma - Finish Library (1T) then Forge (9T) or Kremlin (20T) and then Market/Grocer/Bank
Leira - Finish Library , then CH
Evora - Finish LH then CH ?
Tech Path - Finish GP 1T, then what Rifling 2T or should we get Physics for the GS before Gandhi does? He has 2T left in Constitution.
Workers - The only two working outside our Borders right now are the two NE of Leiria. The plan was to irrigate all the way to Leiria as it is food poor. I thought the next culture pop was coming sooner than it is. You are right it would have been best to irrigate the next tile south as soon a as the Workers were done 1NE. The Workers irrigating near Santarem are doing so to help it grow quicker. We also have a crew working on getting Farcanal some Workshops.
The Worker near Nongoma should irrigate the Flood plain next, for faster growth.
Our original core is pretty much set for development at the time, and our Workers can concentrate on the underdeveloped cities we got from the Zulu and Joao.
Trades - Should we consider some resource trades for Gold? There are some available.
There aren't any techs worth trading for yet. It doesn't benefit us anything to get Music or Drama as both those wonders were built by India. We will need them before Nationalism but hopefully can trade some lesser techs for them.
War - I did look to see if Joao would give us some cities for peace. I didn't get too close with the negotiations as I didn't want to settle before we discussed it. I don't know if he will. It has been my experience so far with the patched BTS that the AI capitulates quicker but does not give up cities. We could make peace and then attack fresh as soon as we are ready.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
Nice job with the war. Like the others said, my only criticism is the use of the GM.
I plan to play tomorrow. I will analyze the save and post my comments in a bit.
I plan to play tomorrow. I will analyze the save and post my comments in a bit.
greatbeyond
King
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
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- 989
I see your point about the switch to Confu before FR. Lesson learned (hopefully)
Again, I see your point about the GM. I figured a trade mission to India would have taken at least 10 turns but would have given us lots of gold. I shouldn't have assumed that because rushing RP was mentioned once that it was the chosen path.
I thought about Caste and should have mentioned it, as that along with Pacifism gets GP quickly. This was the path I chose in BOTM 11 discussed below. It is possible to get GP very quickly, even without the Parthenon.
Perhaps we should get the NE built in the city that can complete it the quickest to get the 100% birth rate increase.
I finished BOTM using it as a test for our game. I let it go most of the way to the end just to see how the later Wonders worked out. I did a SR in 1973 with a wonder score of 265. I built the UN and had the option of a UN win but didn't really care to mess with the voting. This could have come a lot sooner but as I said I just played around and didn't try and capture the few wonders I didn't have. I also didn't bother with war until the very end when Cathy DOWed me. Which is different than the path we're on. As I said earlier the AI will capitulate fairly quickly, so we must take their wonder cities first. i I followed roughly the same path we're on now, with an emphasis on science to get me way ahead of the AI. Modern Armor vs Muskets and Rifles. We are somewhat behind in that I only missed the very early Wonders. The good news is we'll take them from Gandhi. This does mean we'll have to build the later wonders ourselves.
Did anyone ever make a wonder curve for our progress? It may not be worth stretching to go past Rocketry, Plastics, Mass Media, Fascism and Refrigeration. This only leaves the Space Elevator as the only Wonder not built.
Again, I see your point about the GM. I figured a trade mission to India would have taken at least 10 turns but would have given us lots of gold. I shouldn't have assumed that because rushing RP was mentioned once that it was the chosen path.
I thought about Caste and should have mentioned it, as that along with Pacifism gets GP quickly. This was the path I chose in BOTM 11 discussed below. It is possible to get GP very quickly, even without the Parthenon.
Perhaps we should get the NE built in the city that can complete it the quickest to get the 100% birth rate increase.
I finished BOTM using it as a test for our game. I let it go most of the way to the end just to see how the later Wonders worked out. I did a SR in 1973 with a wonder score of 265. I built the UN and had the option of a UN win but didn't really care to mess with the voting. This could have come a lot sooner but as I said I just played around and didn't try and capture the few wonders I didn't have. I also didn't bother with war until the very end when Cathy DOWed me. Which is different than the path we're on. As I said earlier the AI will capitulate fairly quickly, so we must take their wonder cities first. i I followed roughly the same path we're on now, with an emphasis on science to get me way ahead of the AI. Modern Armor vs Muskets and Rifles. We are somewhat behind in that I only missed the very early Wonders. The good news is we'll take them from Gandhi. This does mean we'll have to build the later wonders ourselves.
Did anyone ever make a wonder curve for our progress? It may not be worth stretching to go past Rocketry, Plastics, Mass Media, Fascism and Refrigeration. This only leaves the Space Elevator as the only Wonder not built.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
I want to research gunpowder>rifeling. I want to get rifelmen going for Ghandi quickly. He is researching constitution so democracy will be next. I want to hit Delhi and Bombay before he builds the Statue of Liberty. I also want to kill him off before he gifts democracy to all the other AI civs so that we don't get Emancipation unhappiness.
I think the we should trade Liberalism to Ghandi for Music and Theocracy. He will switch to Free Religion which will give him one turn of revolt slowing him down. He will also lose the shared religion diplo bonus with the other AI players before we DOW. Those are the only two techs that the AI will trade and we should be able to get both for Liberalism.
Since we are a few turns from being ready to advance on Ghandi, I want vote to continue the war on Joao. We have a healer with our forward stack. We can let a few units heal while the healthy units escort the cats to Lisbon. 2-3 turns of pounding down walls and the other units should catch up. Suicide one cat and then take the Capitol.
The only world wonder available to build is the Kremlin. Do we want to start building it? If so...where?
I think the we should trade Liberalism to Ghandi for Music and Theocracy. He will switch to Free Religion which will give him one turn of revolt slowing him down. He will also lose the shared religion diplo bonus with the other AI players before we DOW. Those are the only two techs that the AI will trade and we should be able to get both for Liberalism.
Since we are a few turns from being ready to advance on Ghandi, I want vote to continue the war on Joao. We have a healer with our forward stack. We can let a few units heal while the healthy units escort the cats to Lisbon. 2-3 turns of pounding down walls and the other units should catch up. Suicide one cat and then take the Capitol.
The only world wonder available to build is the Kremlin. Do we want to start building it? If so...where?
berserks01
Obviously Very Confused
I like the Pacifism + Caste idea. We should decide before Mesix plays so we can switch without anarchy while we still can.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
The 100% bonus is only in the city that buils it...not nation wide. We need to carefully select a city that will run a lot of specialists. Marbles might be a good candidate. Engineering would be good if we think that the GE will be difficult to get. Remember that we can only build 2 national wonders per city so if we build NE in Engineering then we need to save the other national wonder slot for IW to get the additional engineers necessary.
We only need one more GE for corp HQ. I suppose that any extra great people above the corp HQ should be GE to rush wonders in the late game. To that end, Engineering might be the best option.
The other side of the argument goes for Marbles. With 2 seafood we can run a bunch of specialists. We currently have a surplus of 7 food in marbles at the happy cap so we can run 3 specialists now. We can get more specialists later. It may be a good idea to get NE in Marbles since we can get more great people totoal out of there.
What does everyone else think?
Nobamba: A grass workshop is the same growth rate as the cottage mow it down.
Agree don't whip there. In 6 turns it could be working ALL 4 workshops + mine + horse. Who cares if it grows anymore after that? (assuming those workshops get built)
Parma: I would not have done the forge. This team has a love for forges. That forge gives +3 hammers to Parma. It will take 40 turns just to get back the hammer cost. Then there's the city maint. cost for the extra building. Then we need to slowly make up for all the delayed financial buildings, etc. So it might even out by the time the game ends around t250, but probably not.
FarCanal: you boxed in the rice instead of irrigating it. If a city doesn't have any production then a forge is a huge waste of hammers. It could have been a gp farm, but now with a couple more workshops, it should probably build a wonder.
Unlundi. No irrigating, it has plenty of food. Yes, it will be a good gp farm. It's a shame it is already corrupted with GS points. p.s. Let's get an observatory there too.
Fifth: can turn on a couple merchants. It should pop very soon after Engineering. Not a big fan of the coloseum. But maybe with more wars coming it's ok. Let's hold off until necessary.
Marbles: Again, like the forge situation, it will take forever to re-coup the cost of a grocer. 50 turns. Courthouse, similar, but we do need the 6 minimum. Some banks are OK cus we need Wall St. A market is good for the happiness...should be +3 once we get fur.
Stone: Could someone please explain what all these galleons are going to do after dropping off the army. We only need 1-2 after the transfer to take reinforcements. Maybe 2 for ferrying.
Santarem: Why does every city always have to be building something? What's wrong with wealth? This city should never work a water tile, so no LH. It also doesn't need a CH. We need just 3 more CH and those should be built faster than this city can do. All CH we plan to build should be built in the next 10-20 turns or never built. I don't want to see any in the queues after t210.
Nongoma: Library, then Wealth or wonder. Irrigate the wheat and make GP. Maybe a forge/wonders if you don't want to do GP here, but definitely no grocer, market, etc.
Evora: How about granary.
Leira: CH normally goes in those new cities far from the capitol, but in StProp we don't need to do this. Maint will be higher in the capitol itself than in this city.
Agree don't whip there. In 6 turns it could be working ALL 4 workshops + mine + horse. Who cares if it grows anymore after that? (assuming those workshops get built)
Parma: I would not have done the forge. This team has a love for forges. That forge gives +3 hammers to Parma. It will take 40 turns just to get back the hammer cost. Then there's the city maint. cost for the extra building. Then we need to slowly make up for all the delayed financial buildings, etc. So it might even out by the time the game ends around t250, but probably not.
FarCanal: you boxed in the rice instead of irrigating it. If a city doesn't have any production then a forge is a huge waste of hammers. It could have been a gp farm, but now with a couple more workshops, it should probably build a wonder.
Unlundi. No irrigating, it has plenty of food. Yes, it will be a good gp farm. It's a shame it is already corrupted with GS points. p.s. Let's get an observatory there too.
Fifth: can turn on a couple merchants. It should pop very soon after Engineering. Not a big fan of the coloseum. But maybe with more wars coming it's ok. Let's hold off until necessary.
Marbles: Again, like the forge situation, it will take forever to re-coup the cost of a grocer. 50 turns. Courthouse, similar, but we do need the 6 minimum. Some banks are OK cus we need Wall St. A market is good for the happiness...should be +3 once we get fur.
Stone: Could someone please explain what all these galleons are going to do after dropping off the army. We only need 1-2 after the transfer to take reinforcements. Maybe 2 for ferrying.
Santarem: Why does every city always have to be building something? What's wrong with wealth? This city should never work a water tile, so no LH. It also doesn't need a CH. We need just 3 more CH and those should be built faster than this city can do. All CH we plan to build should be built in the next 10-20 turns or never built. I don't want to see any in the queues after t210.
Nongoma: Library, then Wealth or wonder. Irrigate the wheat and make GP. Maybe a forge/wonders if you don't want to do GP here, but definitely no grocer, market, etc.
Evora: How about granary.
Leira: CH normally goes in those new cities far from the capitol, but in StProp we don't need to do this. Maint will be higher in the capitol itself than in this city.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
I don't like Pacificism while we are at war. To that end I vote for FR. CS is okay if people like it.
FR will keep the diplo penalty down and hopefully the AI players will not dog pile us when we start making in roads on the other continent.
FR will keep the diplo penalty down and hopefully the AI players will not dog pile us when we start making in roads on the other continent.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
Captured wonders produce GP points but no culture. Delhi might be a good city for NE and WS to be built.
The way I see it...NE should go in one of these 4 cities:
Fifthberg
Marbles
Engineering
Delhi
The way I see it...NE should go in one of these 4 cities:
Fifthberg
Marbles
Engineering
Delhi
I doubt we can get a stable plan and play tomorrow. Let's not rush it. There are some major decisions this turn.
Fifth & marbles have GP pollution issues.
Delhi is also a mess and comes a bit late.
I think Eng, running 4 engineers is a good place for the NE.
The only other option I see is putting it in something like Nongoma and running 100% pure artist there.
greatbeyond
King
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 989
I'm not sure there is any more penalty for having Pacifism as your Religion and DOw as there is for any other religion. Perhaps it is something I have missed.
WT - Good discussion on the cities. I'll take a look at your points and see what you mean.
Understood about the NE affecting only itself but this is still a 100% boost for the city. I kind of like Ulundi, Fifthburg, or Marbles for this for this. One of the things I try to do is keep similar wonder types in the same city and not mix them too much. It is bad enough to get some GP tainting from non wonders.
WT - Good discussion on the cities. I'll take a look at your points and see what you mean.
Understood about the NE affecting only itself but this is still a 100% boost for the city. I kind of like Ulundi, Fifthburg, or Marbles for this for this. One of the things I try to do is keep similar wonder types in the same city and not mix them too much. It is bad enough to get some GP tainting from non wonders.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
We shoul take Delhi before we research Steel. That means that Delhi is no later for NE than Engineering.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
We are on turn 187. If we want to finish by turn 250, we need to get moving on the ohter continent. 250-187=63 turns left.
We can get the cats and healthy troops to Lisbon in 4 turns. The healer can heal the other units in 2 turns (so they will be 2 turns behind). Assuming 2-3 turns of wall pounding we should take Lisbon in about 8-9 turns. After Lisbon we need to take our stack to Lagos to meet up with Galleons. We will need at least 6 and probably 8 galleons to move our troops in position to take Delhi.
Lisbon falls in 8 turns.
1 Turn to upgrade to rifelmen (9 turns).
4 more turns to get to Lagos (13 turns).
2 turns to heal/upgrade more troops (15 turns).
2 turns to move galleons to the edge of India's cultural borders (17 turns).
2 turns to land troops near Delhi (19 turns).
Take Delhi (20 turns).
The above scenario is a best case scenario. It is still a bit behind the power curve for a turn 250 finish. In 20 turns we will have only 43 turns remaining to take out India, Rome, and at least one city from Celtia and HRE to get the wonders. We also need to destroy or vassalize AI opponents to get our victory.
We can get the cats and healthy troops to Lisbon in 4 turns. The healer can heal the other units in 2 turns (so they will be 2 turns behind). Assuming 2-3 turns of wall pounding we should take Lisbon in about 8-9 turns. After Lisbon we need to take our stack to Lagos to meet up with Galleons. We will need at least 6 and probably 8 galleons to move our troops in position to take Delhi.
Lisbon falls in 8 turns.
1 Turn to upgrade to rifelmen (9 turns).
4 more turns to get to Lagos (13 turns).
2 turns to heal/upgrade more troops (15 turns).
2 turns to move galleons to the edge of India's cultural borders (17 turns).
2 turns to land troops near Delhi (19 turns).
Take Delhi (20 turns).
The above scenario is a best case scenario. It is still a bit behind the power curve for a turn 250 finish. In 20 turns we will have only 43 turns remaining to take out India, Rome, and at least one city from Celtia and HRE to get the wonders. We also need to destroy or vassalize AI opponents to get our victory.
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