SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

Mesix · Nov 19, 2008

Mesix said:
We are on turn 187. If we want to finish by turn 250, we need to get moving on the ohter continent. 250-187=63 turns left.

We can get the cats and healthy troops to Lisbon in 4 turns. The healer can heal the other units in 2 turns (so they will be 2 turns behind). Assuming 2-3 turns of wall pounding we should take Lisbon in about 8-9 turns. After Lisbon we need to take our stack to Lagos to meet up with Galleons. We will need at least 6 and probably 8 galleons to move our troops in position to take Delhi.

Lisbon falls in 8 turns.
1 Turn to upgrade to rifelmen (9 turns).
4 more turns to get to Lagos (13 turns).
2 turns to heal/upgrade more troops (15 turns).
2 turns to move galleons to the edge of India's cultural borders (17 turns).
2 turns to land troops near Delhi (19 turns).
Take Delhi (20 turns).

The above scenario is a best case scenario. It is still a bit behind the power curve for a turn 250 finish. In 20 turns we will have only 43 turns remaining to take out India, Rome, and at least one city from Celtia and HRE to get the wonders. We also need to destroy or vassalize AI opponents to get our victory.

Here is my TS plan:

War plan (outlined in more detail above): Take Lisbon and continue towards Lagos. Move 4 (soon to be 5) Galleons into position to meet troops in Lagos. Upgrade 2 Triremes to Galleons for a total of 7 transport ships. It will probably take more than 20 turns (so I will not do this on my TS...it will have to be followed by players on the next few TS) to get Delhi, that plan is a best case.

Research: Gunpowder (1 turn), Rifeling (4 turns)...switch to 0% to get gold for upgrading units...Physics, Chemistry, Steel.

Civics: Whip some stuff and then switch to Caste System. Keep running other civics including Free Religion.

Build Queue:
5th - Finish Bank (1 turn), Customs House (4 turns)
Parma - Finish Longbow (2 turns...whip?), Grocier (7 turns), Bank (10 turns)
Marbles - Bank (2 turns...whip?), Customs House (5 turns)
Engineering - Knights (3 turns each)
Stoneopolis - Galleon (2 turns...whip?), Customs House (23 turns)
Far Canal - Forge (5 turns), Macemen (5 turns)
Ulundi - Barracks (3 turns), Macemen (3 turns each)
Nobamba - Observatory (6 turns)...what to build next, maybe University (10 turns)???
Santarem - Currently building Forge (46 turns) is only size 1 with little production.
Leiria - Library (2)...add ahead of Library (or whip library?) Barracks (4 turns), Maceman (6 turns)
Evora - Lighthouse (5 turns), Granary (5 turns)
Oporto - Library (91 turns)...currently in revolt will improve.

WastinTime · Nov 19, 2008

greatbeyond said:
Rifling is 3T away, perhaps a little as 2T with some MM.

I had this in an earlier post:
Tech Path - Finish GP 1T, then what Rifling 2T or should we get Physics for the GS before Gandhi does? He has 2T left in Constitution.

I think getting the free GS is worth the slight detour.

Actually Rifling is like 6 away (not 3). Our GA ends next turn.

Gandhi is nowhere near Physics, so no need to detour. Chem, steel are more important. We'll need some frigates to clear the waters and it'd be nice to start IW. Then probably Physics. I need to look.

WastinTime · Nov 19, 2008

Isn't our army big enough to split and take Coimbra simultaenously?

Do not finish the longbow, and don't whip Parma. It grows too slowly. Just switch to bank and crank up the hammers. We really want that bank in before we run 0% research. It's too bad this building was delayed.

Customs houses: I'm not sure I like this idea. Certainly not for everyone (like Stoneop)

Please go back and read my post which commented on the build q for each city. I see you still have no military scheduled in our one key military city!

Mesix · Nov 19, 2008

Stoneopolis is getting about 16 commerce from trade routes. +100% is a good move. There isn't much else to do in Stoneololis. It can't really contribute to our military and it doesn't have enough production to build a wonder. We ned to maximize commerce from trade which will continue even after we DOW provided we don't get dogpiled. As we vassalize one AI we can DOW another so commerce from trade should stay continuous.

The only wonder available is the Krem. We can probably build military for the next 15-20 turns and then select a few cities to build wonders as they become available.

WastinTime · Nov 19, 2008

I got the impression, back when we were building harbors, that the +50% bonus is not clear to everyone. +100% does not mean +16 in your example for Stoneopolis. That would be amazing. I'm no trade route expert, but its something like +1/route. so probably +4. And it could be less, or even zero if that city doesn't have foreign, overseas routes. As our empire grows in # of cities and we declare war on some of the AI, we get little benefit. The capitol, and probably Ulundi are exceptions.

Sweetacshon · Nov 20, 2008

+1 per route? I think more, but it would behoove to check the city itself. If the 16 comes from OS routes, then taking off the 50% for the harbour (the bonuses don't multiply, of course), then the 100% from the customs would add about 10, wouldn't it? IIRC, cities can only trade with 1 OS city, and match up by city size (is this right?), so only our biggest cities would maintain the benefit through war and AI merc (I think I noticed Gandhi going into merc), so wouldn't it be worth putting customs houses in these cities?

Mesix · Nov 20, 2008

Here is the save.

Here is the Autolog.

Spoiler :

Mesix · Nov 20, 2008

Highlights from my TS (had to split into 2 posts):

We took Lisbon as planned. I split the forces to take the next two cities as recommended by Wasting Time. We only lost one Maceman in the combat and one Knight to a weak counterattack.

I have upgraded all of the Macemen with CR3 to Rifelmen. I upgraded our Super Medic to a Rifelman too. I moved some Macemen with CR2 to the north to gain more exp (for CR3) before they upgrade. The Super Medic is currently camped in Lisbon while the CR3 Rifelmen are headed west.

I traded on the last turn. We got Nationalism, Drama, and 400 gold for Liberalism from Ghandi, but I had to throw in Printing Press (he only had 2 turns left for Printing Press anyway, so it reduced his research time for Democracy by only 2 turns). I also traded Paper for Theology and Education for Music with Greece and Celtia to round the early techs that we were missing.

Triremes can only be upgraded to Caravals so that is what I did (50 gold each). I built 2 more Galleons in 5th to make up for the Caravals. We can use the Caravals to guard from barbarian ships while our Galleons rondovous to pick up our invasion forces.

I got an event that gave me the choice of 270 research towards Chemistry or +1 from a Library. I took the 270 since we don't plan for this game to last long enough for the 2nd option to pay off.

I sent 2 workers to rebuild the iron mine near Evora before sending them back up to build farms near the small cities that are further removed from the front lines. Other workers built workshops near our larger cities.

Here is the turn log.

Spoiler :

Mesix · Nov 20, 2008

As a side note, the trade routes in Fifthberg went from 8, 7, 6, 6 to 10, 9, 8, 8 when the Customs House was finished so the +100% equated to about +2 per trade route (a total of +8).

Mesix · Nov 20, 2008

I almost forgot to mention...we got a GE from Engineering and GG from combat.

WastinTime · Nov 20, 2008

Mesix said:
As a side note, the trade routes in Fifthberg went from 8, 7, 6, 6 to 10, 9, 8, 8 when the Customs House was finished so the +100% equated to about +2 per trade route (a total of +8).

Well yea, in the capitol, no doubt it's more than +4. I still don't think we want one in Stoneopolis.

WastinTime · Nov 20, 2008

No farms please. Workshops and more workshops. The only 2 farms we need are to irrigate the rice and the wheat, and we have not done either.

Caravel upgrades: probably not wise with Chemistry/frigate 2 turns away (unless they don't charge extra for the double upgrade).

I'm not sure we should build riflemen out of Nobamba. Macemen can get CR II immediately.

Stop working scientists and rice in Ulundi. Work cottages.

WastinTime · Nov 20, 2008

Engineering is still working many inferior tiles. We need a good micro-manager up next.
Same for Nobamba. put a workshop over that new cottage and 2 more workshops.

BLubmuz · Nov 20, 2008

I've seen Mesix's TS report and it seems well played.
I'll try to MM following WT's suggestions in my TS.

To begin a plan for turns 197 to 205:
1) wipe Joao
2) prepare for Gandhi
3) follow the path to Steel/SP
4) limited tech trades
5) don't give in to any demand without some benefit
6) build some frigate when they will be avaible
7) upgrade caravels to frigates
8) no civics change

More will follow after i analyze the save.

Mesix · Nov 20, 2008

The farms are being built near size 1-3 cities that need to grow. They can be changed to workshops later after the cities have enough population to work several tiles. Workshops don't need time to mature like cottages to.

Mesix · Nov 20, 2008

What shuold we do witht he new GG?

I think the two best options are to settle him with our NE for more exp on fresh units or to combine him with a newly built maceman (insatnt 25 exp) to get a combat GG that can have CR3, +100% exp from combat, and be upgraded to a rifelman (and later an infantry) for free.

MacBalt · Nov 20, 2008

Good news on getting Lisbon. Now we should use those galleons hanging around off the coast to ferry a stack of riflemen to Joao's last few coastal cities and pick them up quickly. We'll need at least Braga, but I bet Lagos could be picked up within a turn of two after that by smart use of the galleons. We'll need peace soon though, because the war weariness is kicking in.

Nice to see that we got the Great Engineer.

Now, shouldn't Fifth be working a merchant instead of an Engineer if that's the next GP we need? More on the NE discussion, anyone?

BLubmuz · Nov 20, 2008

Settle a GG where there's another one doesn't make sense: Barracks give 3XP, 1GG 2XP, total 5.
What do we do with 7?
I propose to settle him in 5th.
Yes tell me which specialists i have to use.
I suppose some merchants in 5th, we should have good chances for a GM.

Mesix · Nov 20, 2008

Balthalion said:
Good news on getting Lisbon. Now we should use those galleons hanging around off the coast to ferry a stack of riflemen to Joao's last few coastal cities and pick them up quickly. We'll need at least Braga, but I bet Lagos could be picked up within a turn of two after that by smart use of the galleons. We'll need peace soon though, because the war weariness is kicking in.

Nice to see that we got the Great Engineer. Now, shouldn't Fifth be working a merchant instead of an Engineer if that's the next GP we need? More on the NE discussion, anyone?

The Galleons are in place to invade Delhi. Ghandi will get Democracy in 7 turns. We will not be able to take him out before he researchs Democracy, but we can take him out before he builds the SoL. We need the extra specialists from the SoL on this continent. We also can't dally around and let turns burn past us while our mythical 250 finish date gets closer (or further away from reality).

The Galleons are in place to take troops to Delhi ASAP!!!

We will take 2 of Joao's (Lagos and Coimbra) citis in the next TS. Braga should fall shortly after that. The remaining cities will be easy to take with fresh troops that are being built. The upgraded rifelmen need to get to the other continent if we are going to have any chance of winning this. We have 5 galleons in place for ferry duty and a 6th on the way.

Mesix · Nov 20, 2008

BLubmuz said:
Settle a GG where there's another one doesn't make sense: Barracks give 3XP, 1GG 2XP, total 5.
What do we do with 7?
I propose to settle him in 5th.
Yes tell me which specialists i have to use.
I suppose some merchants in 5th, we should have good chances for a GM.

I personally think that the best use of the GG would be to attach him to a single (not a stack) unit. We can either get a Leadership + CR3 military unit or another Super Medic.

SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

Obergruppenführer

Deity

Deity

Obergruppenführer

Deity

In the foetal position

Obergruppenführer

Obergruppenführer

Obergruppenführer

Obergruppenführer

Deity

Deity

Deity

HoF Quattromaster

Obergruppenführer

Obergruppenführer

Learnéd Fool

HoF Quattromaster

Obergruppenführer

Obergruppenführer

Similar threads