SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

[WastinTime]

So, corps this turn...that means Free Market or Merc. Probably merc?
That will require quite a bit of specialist MM. Then again on the next turn when back in SP. Take a close look at the beakers/turn, gold/turn and see if you can stablize the same tech rate we have now, but in Merc. Maybe we can stay there.

I just realized that the RedCross will not finish in 8 turns now because of the hammer loss for leaving StateProp. We will probably have to buy the end of it.

 

[berserks01]

So, corps this turn...that means Free Market or Merc. Probably merc?
That will require quite a bit of specialist MM. Then again on the next turn when back in SP. Take a close look at the beakers/turn, gold/turn and see if you can stablize the same tech rate we have now, but in Merc. Maybe we can stay there.

I just realized that the RedCross will not finish in 8 turns now because of the hammer loss for leaving StateProp. We will probably have to buy the end of it.

Yup. Switch to Merc to found the corps. I'll see if careful MM can match the beakers/turn and gold/turn as its current rate in SP.

That's true about RedCross as well. Will see what can be done about it, but I suspect you are right about needing to buy it.

I'll wait til tomorrow night for more comments from the other players before starting my TS.

 

[BLubmuz]

I opened the save and just mousing over a GP tells me we cannot found corps under SP.

Better try to switch to Merc or FM?
Merc means one free specialist in every city and can be a merchant to partially compensate the maintenance costs.
FM means more income from TR, +1 TR in every city and less corps costs.
I'm for FM.

Solution for RC:
1- Evora has already an Hospital, and can do RC in 9t
2- we need 2 railroads to let the GE be there in 1 turn (2 pairs of workers can do the job, they're ready, be careful how to move them)
3- send a GE from Braga in Evora, he can found Mining Inc, giving 18 raw = 22-23 with the forge
4- send there also the GM, he can found Cereals
5- found it in this turn, after civics change, the RC should be done in 7 turns

found:
- Sushi in Dehli
- Jewels in Marbles
- continue combustion, then CC in Eng - AC has a GE in Rome, i don't wanna take a 4th roman city with CC.

Stay in FM for 1 more turn (your first complete turn) and next turn switch to SP!!!
Then, after Dehli pop his Gman, switch to FR, we need it for culture!!!

I made some test on a old diplo game: we'll win for sure the SG elections, and the diplo vote will come on turn 264: by then we can have captured Thebes, put decent garrisons in the cities under cultural pressure and built (Rocketry should be in turn 263) Aluminum switching again to FM.

No reason to afford a long war, with the risk some city can flip, to have one more wonder (Mueslim holy): let's win by Diplo!!!

 

[berserks01]

So you're saying to continue researching combustion and then artillery?

I'm not sure FM is better since we're not spreading the corps so it'll be only those corps we found.

 

[WastinTime]

GE in Rome. We have to take Rome anyway, so let him build the corp there. I doubt he will anyway. I'm thinking we skip combustion, but probably don't need to since our tech pace is good enough. How about the whale situation? how is happiness?

I'd still like to play as if we get a prophet in 2 and take rhodes. Even if we go diplo.

Good plan on RedC with Mining Inc.

God it feels good to plan a TS before we play it.

 

[WastinTime]

I'm not sure FM is better since we're not spreading the corps so it'll be only those corps we found.

Merc also comes with "no foreign trade rtes". Doesn't that mean all our vassals won't give TRoutes anymore? That could hurt, so maybe FM is better (and takes way less MM.)

 

[BLubmuz]

Merc also comes with "no foreign trade rtes". Doesn't that mean all our vassals won't give TRoutes anymore? That could hurt, so maybe FM is better (and takes way less MM.)

FM is far better.
But we have no problems of research, and we can keep it for the inherited turn and all next one.
We'll need anyway to rush-buy RC, but we'll save some money.
No problems for research, too, we can set to 0% after Rocketry.

I analyzed the save, and i think that we need all the stacks to safely take the 3 Roman cities: BtS AIs often reinforces the garrisons, so probably Cumae will not fall next turn.

We need a lot of time to move troops to sail to Rhodes, but we can try.

Just remember that Thebes is equally important, and we probably need a good stack for that too.
We can DoW Pericles after the fall of Antium, in the same turn, moving the stack in Roman territory just one tile E of Thebes the preceding turn.
This is a matter of next TS, but we need to plan it now.

There're 3 idle workers in Nongoma. Sorry, i didn't noticed them in my TS.

Goal: win by Diplo on turn 265, with a wonder score of 285 or 290.
respectively, 1.0754 and 1.0943

I smell a medal

 

[WastinTime]

Didn't think we'd sail to Rhodes. Just move cavalry thru HRE land. Whatcha planning Berserks? I think you already said, but let us know if anything changed and what the final assault is now.

 

[BLubmuz]

By land or by sea doesn't matter, it's a long trip to the West.
I was building railroads, but can't build them fast enough.

 

[berserks01]

I'll post the updated PPP later today to finalize it. I haven't heard anything from any of the other players, so I'll wait another day before playing.

 

[berserks01]

Here's the updated PPP.

Switch to Free Market now before ending the turn. Then MM to get research to improve or stabilize with positive cash flow.
Found all corps now.

Marbles: wealth, can through out a GPerson (54% GM) in 6-7 turns if we turn on more specialists
Engineering: wealth, throughs out a GPerson (85% GE) in 4 turns
Nongoma: Red Cross in 8 turns (switch from working FP to Windmill desert hill)
Leira: National Park in 2 turns, then wealth

Delhi: Wall Street in 1 turn, GPerson (43% GP) in 2 turns if we turn on 1 more priest
Bombay: GPerson (62% GP) in 6 turns

Nuremburg: turn on more artists to fight culture
Tolosa: fire artist, hire engineer for hammers
Pisa: kill library, build troops

All other cities in mainland switch to build wealth, and to work hammer tiles (hammer == gold), and to if we must turn on specialists turn on merchants instead (more gold than engineers)
All other cities on war island further from the war switch to build cavalries, they get to the front much faster than infantries. Perc is weak military wise, cavs should be enough to take him, infantries should be use to defend instead.

The tile 2E1N of Florence should be where our stack to take Rhodes form. The canons in Ulm and Pisa and Bombay can head Aachen to help with the resistance.
The infantry in Pataliputra can head over to Aachen so the cavs there can go to the stack for Rhodes.
1 of the infrantry in Bombay can join the infantry in Vienna.
The cavs in Agra can head over to the stack for Phodes as well.
The 2 infantries in Versailles should head over to Nuremburg.
The airships in Veranasi and Lahore can rebase to Florence to bombard Rhodes defense. The airships will recon to see what we're up against in Rhodes.
That would be ~10 cavs and ~8 airships and a couple of infantries, that should take care of Rhodes and hold it I think.

The stack on it's way from the mainland should land next to Cumae. It'll help hold it as well as take out Satricum if Rome still refuse to capitulate. Also, we can be assured that Rome will whip more defenders for Cumue in the IBT.
Rome should fall in 2 turns with those 2 stacks and Cumae should fall next turn. Rebase the airships to Rome immediately so we can start the bombardment of Antium. Thebes should also be within bombard range from there.
Then send the fresh and lightly damaged troops to Antium immediately while the rest can heal and defend Rome and Cumae.

If we get a vote option in 4 turns, we choose the +1 trade routes.
See if we can get some cash/tech trades or cash/tech demands from our vassals.

Solution for RC:
1- Evora has already an Hospital, and can do RC in 9t
2- we need 2 railroads to let the GE be there in 1 turn (2 pairs of workers can do the job, they're ready, be careful how to move them)
3- send a GE from Braga in Evora, he can found Mining Inc, giving 18 raw = 22-23 with the forge
4- send there also the GM, he can found Cereals
5- found it in this turn, after civics change, the RC should be done in 7 turns

found:
- Sushi in Dehli
- Jewels in Marbles
- continue combustion, then CC in Eng - AC has a GE in Rome, i don't wanna take a 4th roman city with CC.

Stay in FM for 1 more turn (your first complete turn) and next turn switch to SP!!!
Then, after Dehli pop his Gman, switch to FR, we need it for culture!!!


A couple of turns of healing should enable them to start on Perc. I think that's it.

 

[BLubmuz]

Seems good, but:

Nongoma: WEALTH!!! and move those idle workers from there!!!
5th: wealth
Eng: complete factory, then wealth.
Parma: Wealth, that MG will never reach the front!
Stone: wealth
HE city: finish build, then wealth
more cities in mainland: wealth
build cultural buildings or units in new continent.
CH in Dehli after WS, should be in 1 turn, then wealth.

Absolutely don't unload the galleons near Cumae (it's not coastal), unload them to Dehli.
AC has a couple frigates and a SotL around, and our frigates are seriously damaged.

And don't worry, he will capitulate after the fall of Rome, but we need Antium too, so we'll wait.

You can run far more than 2 priests after Sushi in Dehli.
The Gman from there will be our last one, so don't bother with more (and remember that the GP points increase, so the turns you posted are more).
MM the cities only to max wealth.

All that movement for Rhodes only in case we pop a GP.
And if we pop another Gman?
If a GA we can use him to culture-bomb one of the newly conquered cities, say Aachen or Ravenna.
If a GE (almost impossible) bring him to finish the RC.
If else, just add him to Dehli.

I've seen you copy/pasted my suggestions, so i think you have catch it!

Goal: Diplo in 265, or death!!!
BTW i've well examined the graphs, and the smell of medal is stronger.

 

[berserks01]

Forgot about Nogoma. I've already mentioned all other cities in the mainland to build wealth. I see no point in allow them to finish their builds since they'll never amount to anything in the remaining 8 turns.

I was thinking of unloading the Galleons on the stack already there. The frigates are healing and should be enough to cover our galleons. But if I see trouble, then I'll unload them at Delhi.

We don't need more priests since we're popping a GPerson in 2 turn at Delhi, so it's a moot point to run more than is necessary.

 

[WastinTime]

berserks is right, don't bother finishing factories now, just wealth.

if you found sushi in delhi, is there a chance you can get a GP in 1 turn with a ton of specialists (i.e. 100% specialist)? It won't delay WallSt, because there's only something like 2 hammers left on it!

Switching back to SP, or not. You may not be able to do this. It might kill the RedCross build because Mining Inc will turn off. Again we could plan to buy the end of it. You should be able to calculate if RC will finish under SP.

Other Gman. Check and see if it can be used to research anything. If it's a GM, maybe a trade mission then. Adding it to Delhi doesn't sound like much gain, don't do that.

 

[BLubmuz]

The Factory in Eng is due in 1t, and it will increase prod by 25%: it pays that turn in 4t!!!

Good idea use a GM for a trade mission

We need to switch to SP, we cannot sustain the maintenance and keep science high.
In addition, most of our cities are starving.
We'll need to buy the RC anyway, in 7 turns we're done.
But remember that after Rocketry we can turn science to 0.
CH in Dehli, please! with FM and Sushi it costs too much, and it's done in 1turn.

We have enough troops for Rome, Cumae and Antium and counting the galleons also for Thebes.
If you unload them on the present stack, you lost moves.

You can also kill that pretorian+LB with some infantry in Lahore, and bring them close to Rome.

 

[berserks01]

If I'm going FM for 1or 2 turns only and then switch back to SP, why bother moving the RC to Delhi and lose the hammers already burned for it in it's current location? We're gonna rush buy it anyway, so why not leave it there? I'd rather have Delhi through out more troops anyway.

Loading them on the stack at Cumae would lose moves, but at least they're right there the turn after. Loading them at Delhi will also lose moves, and it'll need to walk a ways to get to the war.

Leave the praetorian+BL in the fort. Why waste health against something that'll never be a bother anyway? If they move to join a city, then even better since most of our promotions are for city raiders.

I will try the 100% GMen and see if that works.

 

[WastinTime]

The Factory in Eng is due in 1t, and it will increase prod by 25%: it pays that turn in 4t!!!

Did you read my explanation on how FreeR does not really give 10%?

This is the same common mistake. The factory will not pay for itself in 4 turns. Eng already gets 100% from IW and then the forge too. +25% from a factory is more like +11%. So 9 turns, not 4.

 

[WastinTime]

why bother moving the RC to Delhi and lose the hammers already burned for it in it's current location?

There won't be any wasted hammers. This is a good idea to consider. WallSt has 2 hammers to go, so all of the overflow will go into RC as if it started building it this turn.

The questions...are there any national wonders in Delhi already? and how fast can Delhi finish RC?

 

[BLubmuz]

There won't be any wasted hammers. This is a good idea to consider. WallSt has 2 hammers to go, so all of the overflow will go into RC as if it started building it this turn.

The questions...are there any national wonders in Delhi already? and how fast can Delhi finish RC?

Forget it.
Dehli doesn't even have an Hospital.

And there isn't a single hammer wasted on RC in Nobamba, and the GE can reach only Evora to take advantage of Mining Inc.
I thought to every single possibility to recover my mistake, and the one i proposed and that Bers pasted in his PPP is the best possible.

I know the bonus thing, still 1 turn to complete the factory will pay before the end, we'll build CC next turn and we'll run FM for some more turn before the end.

I will try the 100% GMen and see if that works.

I don't understand.
But if you're saying to not switch to FR right after our next Gman, you're gambling with our wonders (Aachen and Bibracte).

 

[berserks01]

The "I will try the 100%" GMen is to see if we can generate another GPerson from Delhi after the one that pops in 2 turns by turning on a heck of a lot of specialists.