Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
IIRC Gyathaar removes all the goody huts near the human player to remove the element of luck. Of course CRC (CFR?) managed to pop one for Mining (?) in SGOTM02.
SGOTM 08 - Geezers
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
IIRC Gyathaar removes all the goody huts near the human player to remove the element of luck. Of course CRC (CFR?) managed to pop one for Mining (?) in SGOTM02.
erikthecelt
Old, Geezer, Unoriginal
I think waiting for Misotu to comment before proceeding would be appropriate. I would like to run some comparisons on the fishing vs AH start as I do not see what the worker will contribute after mining the gold. I also think we are probably on an island and we will need boats to scout not warriors.
CRC and 5th element have both stopped at turn 13. Read the entrails
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
CRC and 5th element have both stopped at turn 13. Read the entrails
Yes I noticed that. Could just be coincidence......
I take your point about Misotu.
Harbourboy
Deity
I agree, but scouting may reveal that we want fishing ASAP to build a WB.
AgedOne
Emperor
Good point. I was playing another practice, starting with a worker, and it was evidently one of those situations where you are always close to having an idle worker. Even when I found a bit of road-building for them to do, it was hardly a profitable use. A couple of workboats would have been useful - one for food and one to explore.
Hmm. Big surprise coming up at the limit of our scout's exploration?CRC and 5th element have both stopped at turn 13. Read the entrails
Practice Game
I thought I'd try out the aim of building a few early wonders - Henge, Oracle, Mids - and using the Gt Prophet to bulb Theology. This whole sequence worked a treat. I also got the Gt Lib, and a useful tech lead.
I took CoL from the Oracle, but maybe I shouldn't have, as of course that founded Confucianism, and perhaps I could have been keeping to just Christianity.
The other major problem I made for myself was failing to expand adequately, which resulted in a little boxed-in empire. I'm sure I could have avoided that with just a little forethought.
So I got the AP, having spread my religion to 5 other civs just before. I was the only full member, and it didn't seem to offer me a victory vote, as folk have been telling me that has been fixed in a patch. In any case, I needed one or two of the others to side with me, and I still needed to get their attitude up high enough for that.
By the way, I used the fort-as-cut-thru technique, and it was fine.
erikthecelt
Old, Geezer, Unoriginal
Start optimization
In order to evaluate the different possible tech path/build scenarios (similar to what we did for Mids/G. Lib in the last game). i would like to know what early techs/builds I should be looking at.
Obviously we have path 1 - AH/BW with worker/warrior/warrior/settler and path 2 with fishing/AH with worker(partial)/WB/worker(finish)/warrior/warrior/settler.
Other techs to include are masonary,wheel,sailing. Does anyone have any other ideas on what should be included in the tech/build mix. I will compare turns to complete settler, #hammers and beakers. Anything else?
In order to evaluate the different possible tech path/build scenarios (similar to what we did for Mids/G. Lib in the last game). i would like to know what early techs/builds I should be looking at.
Obviously we have path 1 - AH/BW with worker/warrior/warrior/settler and path 2 with fishing/AH with worker(partial)/WB/worker(finish)/warrior/warrior/settler.
Other techs to include are masonary,wheel,sailing. Does anyone have any other ideas on what should be included in the tech/build mix. I will compare turns to complete settler, #hammers and beakers. Anything else?
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
What about looking at an Oracle slingshot? The other question is what free tech we might want. MC or maybe CoL? Another option would be to look at going for the Great Wall. It's good for spy points, an early Great Spy and enhanced power rating.
AgedOne
Emperor
See my post just a few back. In my latest practice, I pulled off a slingshot to CoL, followed by a Gt Prof bulbing Theology, and I wasn't particularly skillful in my approach.
My tech path was:
AH - (popped Masonry) - Myst - Fishing - Wheel - Medi - Priest - Poly - Writing - (CoL from Oracle) - BW - Mono - (Theo from GP)
Re. Great Wall. Yes, the whole espionage thing must not be forgotten in BTS. Ignore it and everyone starts turning their spies against you. Get a Gt Spy and infiltrate an enemy for a few thousand spy points to use, and instant visibility of their cities
. Very useful if we're about to take them out.
erikthecelt
Old, Geezer, Unoriginal
I think you are trying to look to far ahead. Please think about 4/5 techs and ready for 2nd city.
Test 1
T14 AH
T16 worker
T20 cow pasture
T23 warrior,size2
T25 gold
T27 warrior, BW
T31 fishing
T35 forest chop
T37 settler,fishing
Test 1
T14 AH
T16 worker
T20 cow pasture
T23 warrior,size2
T25 gold
T27 warrior, BW
T31 fishing
T35 forest chop
T37 settler,fishing
AgedOne
Emperor
I think these are two separate conversations, erikthecelt.
I'm aware of what you are looking at, but Sam_Yeager raised a more long-term strategic point - of the sort we have been considering - and this was my comment back to him.
I don't think there's anything wrong with looking closely at the short term, whilst also thinking about the longer term more generally.
erikthecelt
Old, Geezer, Unoriginal
@AgedOne - sorry, Sam quoted my remarks, so I assumed the chat was directed towards the testing I am doing.
Harbourboy
Deity
I think we do need to be mindful of the longer term and I would have thought that setting up for something strategic from the Oracle should be a part of our direction.
Happy to see the results of erikthecelt's testing for a clear idea of what the optimal ealry game path is.
Happy to see the results of erikthecelt's testing for a clear idea of what the optimal ealry game path is.
erikthecelt
Old, Geezer, Unoriginal
Test results: Table 3 yields the best result IMO we are size 3 and we are are working cows, gold and clams to build the settler. There is one chop and 2 hills are mined prior to completing the setller. Tech AH,Fish,BW - Build Worker, part warrior, WB, finish warrior, settler. Note T13 is when AH has been researched. The second tech is probably what is being discussed by the other team.
AH/Worker
T6
T14 AH
T16 worker
T19
T20 cow pasture
T23 warrior,size2
T25 gold
T27 warrior,BW
T28
T29
T30
T31 fishing
T32
T35 forest chop
T37 settler, masonary
T40
Fishing
T6 Fishing
T14
T16 WB/clams
T19 AH
T20
T23
T25 worker
T27
T28 BW,size2,cows
T29
T30
T31 warrior
T32 BW , size 3
T35
T37
T40 settler,sailing
AH/Fishing
T6
T14 AH
T16 worker
T19
T20 fishing
T23 size 2
T25
T27
T28 WB
T29 size 3
T30 warrior
T31 BW
T32
T35
T37 settler,sailing
T40
AH/Worker
T6
T14 AH
T16 worker
T19
T20 cow pasture
T23 warrior,size2
T25 gold
T27 warrior,BW
T28
T29
T30
T31 fishing
T32
T35 forest chop
T37 settler, masonary
T40
Fishing
T6 Fishing
T14
T16 WB/clams
T19 AH
T20
T23
T25 worker
T27
T28 BW,size2,cows
T29
T30
T31 warrior
T32 BW , size 3
T35
T37
T40 settler,sailing
AH/Fishing
T6
T14 AH
T16 worker
T19
T20 fishing
T23 size 2
T25
T27
T28 WB
T29 size 3
T30 warrior
T31 BW
T32
T35
T37 settler,sailing
T40
Harbourboy
Deity
Does the workboat put down nets or go exploring in scenario 3?
erikthecelt
Old, Geezer, Unoriginal
It works the clams.
Harbourboy
Deity
Does the worker ever run out of things to do in any of those scenarios? Does that matter?
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
I had a swift play this morning with the test save up to T41. I went AH - Myst - Med - Priesthood - Wheel - BW (part) and built worker - warrior - barracks (part) - settler - warrior. By T42 I would have been ready to start the Oracle.
By no means am I saying we should go down this route. However if we decided to beeline the Oracle then it might be a possible tech path.
Whilst it would be nice to play my turnset this evening it looks like we may need some more discussion first. Better to delay playing until we are all clear in our minds what we are trying to accomplish.
By no means am I saying we should go down this route. However if we decided to beeline the Oracle then it might be a possible tech path.
Whilst it would be nice to play my turnset this evening it looks like we may need some more discussion first. Better to delay playing until we are all clear in our minds what we are trying to accomplish.
AgedOne
Emperor
That's OK, erikthecelt. It's all useful work.
Re your scenarios. Yes, option 3 is looking the most productive. As Harbourboy says, though:
As long as the worker doesn't stand completely idle, then I think it has been a worthwhile build. As soon as we get BW, there are forested hills to be chopped and mined.
Do we need to road the gold, or is it connected via the coast? If we need roads, then I would recommend early Wheel.
If we are going to try some sort of Oracle sling, we should lay down some of the required tech fairly early. Maybe Myst before sailing?
Harbourboy
Deity
Sam - your test forgoes fishing? Can we afford to wait that long to do fishing?
Nice work, Erik. 
I guess we are not intending to build Stonhenge, then.
Are we agreed that we have to build wonders ourselves ? I have not been able to find a way to encourage an AI to build wonders for us, so I think this will not get us anywhere.
Looking at the victory condition we really should set a path now which wonders we are aiming for and focus on that. We will get the most points the earlier we control wonders.
I guess we are not intending to build Stonhenge, then.
Are we agreed that we have to build wonders ourselves ? I have not been able to find a way to encourage an AI to build wonders for us, so I think this will not get us anywhere.
Looking at the victory condition we really should set a path now which wonders we are aiming for and focus on that. We will get the most points the earlier we control wonders.
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