SGOTM 08 - Geezers

[Sam_Yeager]

Sam - your test forgoes fishing? Can we afford to wait that long to do fishing?

Well it was only a quick test. It was really to highlight that going for Oracle could be done early without significatly slowing down settling. I think it's worth pointing out that the capital grew to 3 pop without the seafood. However I admit that it's possible that we might want a WB for exploring once we've scouted a bit more.

 

[erikthecelt]

I think we can still build both Henge and Oracle after a tech path of AH,Fish,BW,Sail,Mason,Myst,Poly,Priest. With this path the option og G.Lighthouse is available which is a lot more valuable to us than the Henge. I like MC from Oracle and Colosus.

I think we are in the Little part or Big & Little. Exploring more will give us a better idea. I am OK with Sam playing until we get AH and finding out if we really are on an island or an isthmus. That would be turn 13 like CRC and 5th.

I want to build a second city and get out some scout ships before we start on the 1st wonder.

 

[erikthecelt]

Does the worker ever run out of things to do in any of those scenarios? Does that matter?

The worker always has something to do. He mines a hill that is not worked until later but after BW he can pre-chop a lot of forest for the 1st wonder.

 

[markh]

I think we can still build both Henge and Oracle after a tech path of AH,Fish,BW,Sail,Mason,Myst,Poly,Priest. With this path the option og G.Lighthouse is available which is a lot more valuable to us than the Henge. I like MC from Oracle and Colosus.

I want to build a second city and get out some scout ships before we start on the 1st wonder.

I have my doubts whether we will get stonehenge with that tech order. IIRC the AI builds it around turn 60-65, speaking of non-industrial AIs. This would be a close race and I am sure Gyathaar will have put some industrial AIs in the game with access to the necessary resources to make it harder for the teams.

I agree on your point on The Great Lighthouse. As much as we can see yet our cities will be coastal, so this wonder would be quite high on my list. However we can get both if we want.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I have my doubts whether we will get stonehenge with that tech order.

Why do we want the 'henge anyway? We're creative after all.

 

[markh]

It's the earliest wonder you can get, so the earliest points we can gather for the victory condition. Given the set victory condition by Gyathaar I do not see why we would not want as many wonders as possible.

I am not that interested in the momuments, but in the GP points for a Great Prophet. Settled they give +1 hammer and +5 gold which pays maintenance for one additional city.

 

[erikthecelt]

It's the earliest wonder you can get, so the earliest points we can gather for the victory condition. Given the set victory condition by Gyathaar I do not see why we would not want as many wonders as possible.

I am not that interested in the momuments, but in the GP points for a Great Prophet. Settled they give +1 hammer and +5 gold which pays maintenance for one additional city.

Shrines count as wonders, that's a better use for GP, we can get the hammers and gold elsewhere. GW is earlier. We could sub masonary + myst for sailing but i think we should be careful about going for too many.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

It's the earliest wonder you can get, so the earliest points we can gather for the victory condition. Given the set victory condition by Gyathaar I do not see why we would not want as many wonders as possible.

Well, yes..., but if we go for 'henge then will we lose other wonders that might be more useful to us? We don't need 'henge as we're creative so it doesn't matter if we capture it later. I would argue however that building Oracle & GW would be more useful to us as well as getting the wonder points.

It seems as though we need to come up with an agreed priority for building wonders. Given that our capital will be the main building city for quite a while we need to be realistic about what we can build.

Btw the amount of posts so far must be a record for us given that we haven't even finished the first turn.

 

[erikthecelt]

Btw the amount of posts so far must be a record for us given that we haven't even finished the first turn.

Post 136 before Hawk settled last time. Are you waiting to beat that count Sam

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Post 136 before Hawk settled last time. Are you waiting to beat that count Sam

Wow, I hadn't realised it was that late! Mind you I think I may well be quite close to that figure by the time we agree on our provisional path for the first 40 or so turns.

 

[erikthecelt]

Wow, I hadn't realised it was that late! Mind you I think I may well be quite close to that figure by the time we agree on our provisional path for the first 40 or so turns.

I think you should research AH and build the worker, then stop. Forget the 40 turns. Seeing if we are on an island or not will help to focus the discussion.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I think you should research AH and build the worker, then stop. Forget the 40 turns. Seeing if we are on an island or not will help to focus the discussion.

I think that makes sense. I'll try and post the result later on tonight.

 

[erikthecelt]

I think that makes sense. I'll try and post the result later on tonight.

Good Luck - Find STONE

 

[Harbourboy]

Yes, I want the results of recon before deciding what we do in the longer term.

This really is a fantastic SGOTM setup as it is forcing us to think about some quite different ideas from normal games.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Humph! Well that was super quick since the scout came to a nasty end.

Spoiler Exploration to date :

I'll upload the save shortly so that the team can look more in detail.

EDIT: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm8/Geezers_SG008_BC3720_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[markh]

deleted as obsolete now.

 

[AgedOne]

Humph! Well that was super quick since the scout came to a nasty end.

Ohhhhhh! I hate panthers!
Well, weren't you saying just a few hundred posts back how scouts are far too vulnerable against barbs?
(Also, was turn 13 the fateful one for CRC and 5th's scouts?)


Well, I guess we just carry on with the plan, but without any early exploration.
Do you think we should pop a scout into the build queue? And, if so, at what point?

I think we do need to explore this land in order to make good plans, but I would recommend a second WB to do that for us - and more.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Well, weren't you saying just a few hundred posts back how scouts are far too vulnerable against barbs?

I believe mark made that comment.

(Also, was turn 13 the fateful one for CRC and 5th's scouts?)

An interesting question. I notice that some of the other teams have saves around about that date.

Well, I guess we just carry on with the plan, but without any early exploration.

Well first we need to decide which early wonders we are targeting so that we can agree what the plan is. Regrettably it's still not totally clear whether or not we're on a an island or not.

 

[AgedOne]

Well first we need to decide which early wonders we are targeting so that we can agree what the plan is. Regrettably it's still not totally clear whether or not we're on a an island or not.

I feel that, if we are really going to give a religious victory a shot, we should be trying to build both Stonehenge and Oracle in the same city, which pops an early Great Prophet, who can be used to lightbulb Theology.

Of course, that's only if we decide that's the way to go.

But if we do, we don't want to be polluting the Gt Prophet points by building other wonders first - e.g. Gt Lighthouse or Gt Wall.

I just tried a practice, went along the lines of AH - Fishing - BW - Sailing - Masonry - Myst - Poly - Priest and I hit a few problems. One was the lack of wheel early on. I also missed out on Gt Wall. But having got Gt Lighthouse followed by Oracle in the capital, I was going to pop a Gt Merchant 70% or more. The exploring WBs were good though.


I would recommend AH - Fishing - Myst - BW - Wheel - Poly - Priest - Sailing - Masonry.

 

[erikthecelt]

Too bad Sam.

Now that we can see we have enough room for at least two cities and we will need early IW I am inclined to go with The-Hawk's original suggestion of BW after AH and defer the fishing. Copper would be nice to find if we don't get horses and being able to get a settler out early for a second city doesn't hurt.

A build of warrior/warrior/warrior/settler/worker looks attractive. A tech path of AH - BW - Myst - Fish will be fairly quick once we are working the gold. The third warrior is for the MP so the first 2 can scout SW and NW.

Sam - did you want to continue the turn to complete AH and the worker?