SGOTM 08 - Trash Team

[ese-aSH]

Early shrine is not a prio, like you say. We just need one at some point to have GP farm and generate 4-5 prophets. The last 2-3 we dont need till way in the end of the game.

We do need a religous capital for the shrine. Can we found judaism and then go for oracle/MC slingshot?

judaism is a gambit : in one of my 2 test games I managed to get it (I needed it to get theo from oracle), but if there are several 'religious zealot' AI on the map we're pretty sure to loose it (we can not go for monotheism directly, we have to get some food tech before that).

If we go for MC, and got the mids, an 'easy' way to get a religion is bulbing philo : for that we need drama (which unlocks our cheap theatres and the culture slider), meditation (which we would already have on the path to priesthood) and mathematics otherwise the GS will bulb math and not philo (math unlock our UB and are on the path to construction, which unlocks cheap colosseum and UU).

And of course we need a GS + a GP.
those could take some time (remember here we already had a GE) and if we are unlucky they may be delayed du to wonders GPP pollution.

 

[KingMorgan]

Ref my test game;

WP - Didn't attached a GG for level 6 - laziness really, Mil Ad were more imortant.
Jud Shrine - No GP. I didn;t focus on producing late game GP, i could have though and it would have been easy. Again laziness.

Portgual could have fallen, but they got too powerful. Had to concetrate on the overseas conquest as Zara had 8+ wonders and 3 potenial shrines. At that point Portgual had 1. I think i was also lucky that Huapac was nearby, weak and had built 3 of the Corps.

To be honest everyone should now have played a test game. We should seriously think about starting. We can discuss stratergy till the cows come home, then send out a scout and find we are stuck on a 3 city island. (I bet we haven't discussed strat for that!!)

We should decide 2 techs to reasearch, our first build queue item, then start, uncover a bit of the map, say 15 turns if we are lucky and don;t get killed. Then we can decide an informed stratrgy and continue when agreed, slowly with many dicussions and strats. Otherwise we could run out of time.

EDIT

Re reading the rules it's unlikely we will run out of time.

 

[ese-aSH]

I agree with KingMorgan we should quickly decide which start we want to go for (first 25 turns : build worker and grow size 2~3) ; play it and then rediscuss according to what we've explore.

Since we know only a few I would go for a generic start BW/fishing.

if you want we can make some computations to decide which start fits better our whishes.

an important point is : early naval exploration, I tend to neglect it in most of my games, but here it is too important to forget.

 

[pigswill]

Even before our first move we need to agree on settling on the starting spot or on the cow. I personally favour starting spot and look to pick up AH fairly soon.

 

[remconius]

If we are not on an island, and we do settle in place, it could mean we cannot use the fish for a long time. Chances are small, but the map has been modified by Gyathaar.
Also the Marble fortress will not work if we are on the wrong side I think. Marble could be useful in a wonder game...

The +1 food from the cow could help us to a flying start. And we have enough food for later: clams, fish and lots of grassland.

Perhaps 2 turns walking and settling on turn 1 before settling could help. Settler move 1S, scout NE. Then on turn 1 we can have the scout move again and then decide cow or not.

 

[ese-aSH]

Settling on the cows will make us loose 1f 2h + fresh water. not a good move imho.

move scout on the gold 'just in case' something is revealed, but we already got : cows / gold / clam + fish in sight, so settling in place seems good.

 

[pigswill]

Moving the scout and then posting a map before moving the settler is one option. This would of course constitute starting the game and we'd have to save and play from there.

 

[remconius]

Agree settling in place is not bad. At the same time:
- Benefit of fresh water are limited as I did not run into health problems in test games.
- Grassland cow is quite powerful, but with the Clams and Fish we have enough food and grassland all around, so this should not be a problem.
- +1 food in the capital will give us a head start when building our first worker.

I do see three drawbacks that are set-backs and even potential game-breakers:
-No access to marble through a fortress on the island.
-No fish for a long time if sailing there is not possible (maybe north is inland lake)
-No throughfare from North to South.

If we can sail around easily no problem, but if not we are really in big trouble.

 

[stuge]

We really should move the scout before deciding where to settle. I see two possibilities:

-Onto the gold. This might show whether we can sail to the fish or not. Of course, there might still be a sail-around to the west.

-2W. I suggest this move. It'll let us see what we'll give up by settling on the cows. My big worry with that move is the loss of productivity. As is apparent from the starting screenie, cowtown will cost us at least one hill.

 

[ese-aSH]

- +1 food in the capital will give us a head start when building our first worker.

only hammers are impacted by the expansive trait. we will have the same bonus for worker production if we get 4 hammers

 

[remconius]

only hammers are impacted by the expansive trait. we will have the same bonus for worker production if we get 4 hammers

I think we are not talking about the same:

If you settle on a grassland cow, the capital itsself will produce 3 food instead of 2.

@Stuge I am not so worried about production, we have 4 grassland hills left. And later on we can build watermills, workshops.

 

[remconius]

Let's decide on initial moves, then the first player can move units and post a screenie.

Pigswill, you were the first to log in, do you want to pick up the first round?

 

[cripp7]

settling on the cow will give access to the marble with 1 border pop

 

[pigswill]

I'll get the ball rolling by moving the scout. I like stuge's idea of moving 2 west.

 

[pigswill]

And here it is:

 

[KingMorgan]

settling on the cow will give access to the marble with 1 border pop

No it will need 2 border pops if we settle on the cow.

4 border pops if settle in place.

I really think the marble is a red herring, it's a medium term goal imo. I'm also convinced that there is no archpilgo past the gold, i'm thinking the coast curves round and we should have easy access for a workboat. In my experience, short term only one seafood can be worked until happiness cap is increased, if we had plains hils then possible a second is required, otherwise we will be producing too much food and run into happiness issues.

My vote is BW and Fishing, either first is fine, although BW may be best. First build is worker then workboat chopped. Scout to move onto the gold.

 

[KingMorgan]

Well done Pigs, sorry wrote my piece above then posted it after dinner without checking for updates.

Settle in place, My vote is BW and Fishing, either first is fine, although BW may be best. First build is worker then workboat chopped.

Scout heads SW.

 

[remconius]

Didnt know 2W was decided, I would have preferred the gold.... what's done is done.

I am in favour of an extra round of exploration, even 2... I think it's an inland lake.

 

[stuge]

I suppose we could still take a look to the east with the settler, don't really know if it's worth it.

 

[pigswill]

An option that I don't remember anyone (including me) mentioning is building our capital 2E (other side of cow, 1S of gold). It gets clam, fish, cow, gold and marble in BFC, and gives the fish instead of the clams (+1food) without sailing around. It would lose riverside health and a riverside grassland. Whether it would gain anything remains hidden in the fog. Maybe settler to gold hill and lose a turn (2 turns to return to riverside)?