SGOTM 08 - Trash Team

[chopster]

Didnt know 2W was decided, I would have preferred the gold.... what's done is done.

I am in favour of an extra round of exploration, even 2... I think it's an inland lake.

Wow, I don't log in for one day and we've already opened and moved!

Well, now we see what we do, I'm inclined to change my position in favour of settling on the cows - this potentially leaves us room for another city on the plains hill which can use the clams if we turn out to be food poor. This area has a lot of forest and hills and could produce some nice wonders for us with a few invested worker turns.

So, my proposal based on that is settle on cow on turn 0, research fishing, bw while building worker, workboat, settler with chops. Worker can begin with mining the gold and at size 2 we can work fish and gold for nice food surplus and cracking research pace - this will help with the possibility of founding religions if we choose.

Once we have 2 border pops and sailing and math we will have marble access easily for whatever wonders we need it for.

Anyone care to modify the test map to use this info we have now so we can do some testing - I'm hopeless with worldbuilder.

EDIT: I disagree with exploring more than turn 0, as every turn before we start is a turn later we finish, and I can't really see what we could possibly find that would make us want to settle anywhere but the start spot or the cow, although I too wold have preferred the scout go to the gold.

 

[ese-aSH]

For me 2W has not revealed crucial information, except maybe plain hill BFC if we settle in place.

so I dont change my mind :

tech BW/fishing

build warrior for 3 turns working cows:
food store 9/22
warrior 3/15

switch to worker after border pop (work plain hill)
worker will take 12 turns

when worker is out, mine the gold then prechop / chop WB


we could move settler on gold just to see, the only problem is that it means :
- settling on the cows next turn, which is still not my prefered option.
- loosing 1 more turn to return to initial spot or enter a forest.


If anyone could make a quick test to evaluate the real benefits of settling on the cows for the first 100 turns it would be helpfull.
I think I did settled on a food ressource only once and cant remember.

 

[KingMorgan]

Right one quick and dirty test.

Spoiler :

All micromanagemnt was left to the AI so it may be below par. Also forgot to save the orginal set up so 2nd test save game was rebuilt in Worldbuilder.

Both tests were; BW-Fish-AH-IW Worker-Warrior part-Fishing boat chopped-warrior, WB, Barracks

The result was size 5 at turn 46.

Settling on Cow size 5 at turn 43 - (S/s taken on turn 44)

BAH. Just realised i workboated the fish in the 2nd test not the clam, like the first.


Retest under exam conditions!

Test 1 settle in place.

size 5 on turn 43.

Test 2 settle on Cows.

Size 5 at turn 42

Not enough in it to justfiy settling on the cows, imo.

 

[stuge]

An option that I don't remember anyone (including me) mentioning is building our capital 2E (other side of cow, 1S of gold). It gets clam, fish, cow, gold and marble in BFC, and gives the fish instead of the clams (+1food) without sailing around. It would lose riverside health and a riverside grassland. Whether it would gain anything remains hidden in the fog. Maybe settler to gold hill and lose a turn (2 turns to return to riverside)?

An interesting proposal, although I'm afraid that marble in BFC is a moot point. If we were to build a quarry there, we'd need a city on the island anyway to hook it up. The other option, a fort, doesn't give any prod/commerce bonus.

How are we going to settle this?

 

[ese-aSH]

Right one quick and dirty test.

in test 1 you did not build the pasture ?

+ you did not have plain forested hill in your BFC : beeing expansive makes having a 3h tile as efficient as settling on 3f tile for first worker production.
(and in our game we hav to choose between settling on cows OR having the plain hill)

edit : anyway the conclusion is the same = no real benefits settling on cows

 

[remconius]

Being expansive cant you get +1 F in the capital and work 3H tile?

In order to to settle this, let's stick to the playing procedure.

Pigswill if you compile a PPP from all things said so far, we can give comments if needed. Then, if we have an agreement we can make some progress.

 

[KingMorgan]

Potential pasture = 2 week debate on researching AH after Fishing. Ironically i has to worldbuilder a pasture removal - pesky industrius villagers event.

Remc, what is a PPP?

 

[stuge]

Check his second post on page one.

 

[remconius]

Remc, what is a PPP?

I would hope everyone read the guidelines

 

[cripp7]

I would hope everyone read the guidelines

I did read the guidelines, but still PPP

 

[pigswill]

Difficult to write a plan until we've got the basics settled:
Q1: start or cows?
Q2. Settler>Oracle or >SH>Settler>Oracle or something different?

I might have a go at running a couple of tests on Settler>Oracle option using both starting points and post the details.

 

[KingMorgan]

I would hope everyone read the guidelines

Sorry remconius, my bad, very bad memory.

anyhow it was such long time ago i read the guidelines.....

@Cripp Back to school for you.

3. Your first task is to make an initial Pre-Play Plan (PPP) with your view of what your turn set will bring and what your planned actions are.

Pigs, i think we need to decide what tech we plan from Oracle, If theolgy then we need longer for research, although maybe thats planning too far ahead?

We could easliy do worker,wboat,warrior,warrior,S/H,settler,Oracle. a few chops will help us along.

Would it be a good idea to build a worker, tech BW then explore for 10 turns, then complete a PPP?

 

[stuge]

Let's not complicate things with the Oracle yet. We must still decide on where to settle. If the group cannot reach a consensus, then it's up to pigswill to make the call based on the info and opinions put forth so far, with no-one complaining about it later.

My vote goes to settling in place.

 

[KingMorgan]

Settle in place.

 

[cripp7]

@KingMorgan.
Yes it's back to school for me on the guidelines, will read very thoroughly.

My vote, settle in place.

 

[pigswill]

Democratically speaking we've got 5 for starting position (me, cripp7, ese-aSH, King Morgan and stuge) , 2 for the cow (chopster and remconius) and jadex n' blastoidstalker not deigning to join the argument.

Settle in place it shall be.

PPP coming shortly (geologically speaking).

 

[pigswill]

Pre-Play-Plan: Turns 1-20!

T0 Settle in place.
T1-3. Build warrior, work cows. +9F (Total 9/22), +3H(warrior)
(Border pop!)
T4-15.Build worker. Work forest plains hill.
T16-19. Build WB, work cows. +12F. Total 21/22F. +4H (WB)
T20 Build WB, work gold. +1F (22/22). +2H (WB).

Unit moves. Scout heads east to explore poss links to marble.
Worker moves to gold (1T) and builds mine (4T).

After 20 turns we have a worker, part warrior (3H), part WB (6H).
We have a gold mine.
We've learned fishing and BW.
Our city is pop2.

If we're mining the gold first then it takes 20 turns to build a worker and mine the gold. Its better to learn fishing first so we can start on a workboat. Worker can't chop if its mining the gold. We can't whip before pop2 therefore we do not need BW first.

 

[remconius]

The guidelines are put up to bring some structure into this game. In the previous game one member just went ahead an played p'ing quite a few off. Glad you all read it

On to the game:
Alright, settle in place it is.

But if it turns out to be a inland sea, dont say I didnt warn you
slim chance of being a game breaker.

With regards to PPP, why start a warrior and not straight onto worker?

Longer term I think we should skip SH and get our Prohpet from the Oracle. We should make sure city 2 is food rich so it can run priests.

 

[pigswill]

Hafta think about that.

Worker first.
3 turns working cows = +9H, 0F.
Then 11 more turns working plains hill +55H,0F = worker +4hammers overflow, 0F.
6 turns working cows +18F +6H.
After 20 turns we're still pop 1 and need 2 more turns working cows to grow to pop 2.
Goldmine is completed a turn earlier but if we work it we grow to pop2 on turn 26. We gain an extra worker turn and 4 hammers but lose 2 turns of working goldmine+cows which loses the hammers we gained. If we work the goldmine from turn 19 we gain one turn of goldmine (6C,2H) but lose 18 food.

I hope that makes sense.

Edit: having read it myself I'm totally confused .

Basically going worker first slows down growth which reduces the number of turns we work cows and goldmine together costing either food (slowing growth) or hammers and research.

 

[stuge]

Okay, I stared at your plan for five minutes and made my brain jump through hoops, and finally it started making sense. It's solid, I've nothing to add.