SGOTM 08 - XTeam

[leif erikson]

The way I have things MMed right now, we are losing 500+ gpt. We can sustain that loss for 2 turns. We could pick up another 400-500 gold within 2 turns by capturing Cumae and razing Ravenna. We might be able to raze Knossos too. And we can pillage the towns in former Indian territory that we wont be able to use in a timely manner.

Very interesting! It looks like there are also a few cities that will begin losing population to starvation after 2 or 3 turns. Other cities coming out of resistance could offset this some as well as cities finishing thier builds that could be changed to Research, like Jute and Canalville.

I think we may have to take Ravenna. As long as that loss of population does not push us up ovr 60%. We are at 56.62 now, not much head room!

Don't we need to change out of State Property also for corporation to work?

I don't think we care if it works, just that it is built and counts towards the Wonder total!

 

[DJMGator13]

I don't think we care if it works, just that it is built and counts towards the Wonder total!

It won't be greyed out will it? It has been awhile since I've done a space game and I'm not sure I was in state property, otherwise I'm not usually pushing this far into the tech path. Just want to make sure we don't have one of those "oh crap" moments right at the end. You all have done an excellent job.

 

[leif erikson]

It won't be greyed out will it? It has been awhile since I've done a space game and I'm not sure I was in state property, otherwise I'm not usually pushing this far into the tech path. Just want to make sure we don't have one of those "oh crap" moments right at the end. You all have done an excellent job.

I do not know the answer!

The Civlopedia says that under State Property, Corporations do not function, which makes sense. I does not say that you can't build them. Guess a test is in order, but not tonight. Time for some

 

[ShannonCT]

Don't we need to change out of State Property also for corporation to work?

Actually, you're right!!! We can't found a corp while in State Property. We'll have to switch to Free Market sometime after we get Refrig. If we can get Refrig on T212, we could switch to FM that turn, found the corps, and switch to SP and slavery on T213. SP gives us a 10% production bonus that makes a difference in how many hammers we need invested in a wonder before we can whip it, so it would be to our benefit to be in SP on T213. Wall Street in Horseville was the trickiest build. Whipping while in State Property requires 315 hammers invested. Whipping while not in SP requires 332 hammers invested, which is the exact number I calculate that we could have invested on T213! That's really cutting it close.

I think we may have to take Ravenna. As long as that loss of population does not push us up ovr 60%. We are at 56.62 now, not much head room!

We can always give cities back to our vassals. We don't need Lagos, Evora, Florence, Camul, Gergovia, Prague, Nuremburg.

We could also capture Ravenna, Knossos, etc, and then give them back after capturing Rome/Cumae/Antium and making peace with Augustus.

We can always find a way to get under 60% population.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Nice catch, Gator.

"If we can get Refrig on T212, we could switch to FM that turn, found the corps, and switch to SP and slavery on T213." I know we can now switch civics without incurring anarchy, but is the four or five turn wait before you can change civics again also suspended?

 

[ShannonCT]

Nice catch, Gator.

"If we can get Refrig on T212, we could switch to FM that turn, found the corps, and switch to SP and slavery on T213." I know we can now switch civics without incurring anarchy, but is the four or five turn wait before you can change civics again also suspended?

Yeah, it's just a one turn wait now.

 

[rrau]

Nice catch, Gator.

"If we can get Refrig on T212, we could switch to FM that turn, found the corps, and switch to SP and slavery on T213." I know we can now switch civics without incurring anarchy, but is the four or five turn wait before you can change civics again also suspended?

Sorry I haven't been around much, but I think that rule is to prevent people from exploiting the anarchy's lack of gpt and saving some economies that are severely in the red. I'm not going to be around much in the next week or two, so good luck finishing it up!

 

[Cactus Pete]

Good to have you with us, however briefly, rrau. Check back in when RL allows.

 

[Mad Professor]

I like what I'm seeing. Good planning and good execution!

Those graphs indicate a rather close finish I think, but graph gazing is a lot more uncertain than fog gazing, so I guess we'll just have to wait til we're finished, then go find out for sure

Won't be long now!

 

[Frederiksberg]

Wall Street in Horseville was the trickiest build. Whipping while in State Property requires 315 hammers invested. Whipping while not in SP requires 332 hammers invested, which is the exact number I calculate that we could have invested on T213! That's really cutting it close.

Can we do something to increase this margin? There is a dessert hill near Horseville that could be mined. With such a small margin only 1 hammer of slip could cause 6 turns of delay!

OK, I MMed all of our cities for research. Have a look at the save. Beakers per turn is at 2389. With the 20% prereq bonus, that number is really 2866 bpt. Two turns at that rate gives 5732, and I estimate a 1960 beaker overflow from the previous tech. So in two turns, we have 7692 beakers. Medicine requires 6727 and Corp is 2392 (6727 + 2392 = 9119). So we would need 1427 beakers on the third turn to get Corp on T209. The end of the golden age certainly wont cause bpt to go down 50%. I think we should delay the one-turn slavery switch to T209, after corp comes in. Switching to slavery on T208 would reduce workshop output, and whipping all those hospitals would further reduce research at the critical time.

I would expect that our beakers per turn rate will drop 15%-20% when the golden age ends. Postponing slavery one turn sounds reasonable if we still have time to build Red Cross with one turn less.

 

[ShannonCT]

Can we do something to increase this margin? There is a dessert hill near Horseville that could be mined. With such a small margin only 1 hammer of slip could cause 6 turns of delay!

Good idea. We could also build a workshop on the cows (-1 food, +2 hammers). I'll send the worker near Canalville and at least 2 near Jute to do this. We need to chop the 2 remaining forests near Furville. Does anyone know if those forests are prechopped?

I would expect that our beakers per turn rate will drop 15%-20% when the golden age ends. Postponing slavery one turn sounds reasonable if we still have time to build Red Cross with one turn less.

Yes. Before, I had it planned to just barely build a hospital in X-ville in one turn. But it's just as good to build it in two turns with a large overflow into RC. There's still a large margin for error on RC that will let us keep the towns for a few more turns.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Don't think I pre-chopped the Furville forests.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I haven't prechopped either.

I noticed that CRC and Murky have posted new saves. CRC are now at turn 212 and I really like our chances compared to them. Murky are now at T202 and seem to be on par with us when you judge from the graphs. Will probably be really close. OSS finished sometime after T236 and I doubt that they can beat us with such a late finish. We know that we couldn't improve our score by continuing the game. Gypsy Kings are at T166 so it's too early to judge if they have a shot at the gold. The rest of the teams seem to be too far behind in score and power to pose a threat - my guess is that they all lack either beakers or hammers.

 

[leif erikson]

I didn't pre-chop there either.

Looks like we are neck and neck with Murky. Going to be a photo finish?

 

[ShannonCT]

OK, so I'll send 2 workers to Furville. Tundra forests take 3 turns to chop. Does anyone know the keystroke to cancel all worker actions?

 

[ShannonCT]

Pre-play Plan for turns 206-214:

Research:
Med (T208) - Corp (T209) - Refrig (T212-213)

Civics:
Slavery (T209) - Caste (T210) - Free Market (after Refrig) - Slavery (T213) and SP (T213 if Refrig on T212)

Diplomacy:
More military techs to our vassals.
Possible CF with Augustus and Pericles on T212 to gift back Ravenna and Knossos.
Give non-wonder cities back to vassals if needed on T212.

Military:
Capture Knossos, Ravenna, Cumae on T208
Capture Rome and Antium T210-212
Soften other Roman/Greek cities
Pillage towns
Watch for Roman/Greek galleys and sink them. Sink the Greek caravel near Hun?
Use GG to upgrade 4-5 wounded units

Blessed Seas Quest:
Settle 4 new cities on T210
Chain Prophet to Hun
Build shrine

Workers:
Chop SoL at Furville and hospital at Aachen
Build workshop/mine at Horseville
Build workshops at X-ville on turns 210 and 211

Cities:
X-ville: settler-hospital-RC(whip)
Ivoryville: settler-workboats
Pigville: research-hospital(whip)-research
Canalville: settler-research-Globe(whip)
Ulundi: research(3 turns)-Hollywood(whip)
Horseville: UN-bank-WS(whip) (maximize overflow into WS)
Furville: Statue of Liberty(whip)
Jute: Versailles-research-NPark(whip)
Oporto: research-hospital(whip)-research
Lisbon: Broadway
Tolosa: research-hospital(whip)-research
Aachen: research-hospital(chop)-research
Vijay: hospital(whip)-research
All other cities: research/wealth

Hospital whips are on T209. All other whips are on T213.

Victory:
All corps/shrines are built by T213. All final wonders are whipped on T213. On T212, get population below 60%. On T213, propose Diplo Victory resolution. Get Diplo victory on T214.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Can we afford to take the risk of losing a galleon to the Greek caravel? If not, suggest you keep our galleon on a coastal square. If we can afford to lose him, then it's probably better to attack him and find out ASAP, rather than have him attack and win just before you move the prophet.

 

[ShannonCT]

Can we afford to take the risk of losing a galleon to the Greek caravel? If not, suggest you keep our galleon on a coastal square. If we can afford to lose him, then it's probably better to attack him and find out ASAP, rather than have him attack and win just before you move the prophet.

Yes, we can afford to lose a galleon. We only need 3 for the chain and we have 4.

 

[leif erikson]

It sounds like you are ready to go!

Another way to handle the Caravel near Hun is to use the extra Galleon to sit on the tile NW of Hun to ensure it can't be blocked (or that we have to fight for it) when we race the GProphet to Hun.

EDIT - I just noticed that Pericles has Guilds. Augustus doesn't yet but it can't be far behind. Watch for Knights!

 

[ShannonCT]

It sounds like you are ready to go!

If everyone agrees with that sentiment, I can start tonight.

Go ahead and shout out anything I might be forgetting.

Another way to handle the Caravel near Hun is to use the extra Galleon to sit on the tile NW of Hun to ensure it can't be blocked (or that we have to fight for it) when we race the GProphet to Hun.

I was thinking that we should sink it because there are other tiles along the chain path that the caravel could block. If we can clear the way, we can make it so the Prophet never has to end a turn at sea.

EDIT - I just noticed that Pericles has Guilds. Augustus doesn't yet but it can't be far behind. Watch for Knights!

OK, I'll keep an eye out.