SGOTM 10 - Team Liz

[Abegweit]

one other thing... this whole technology stealing building... does that mean that we want to keep writing away from our allies... dutch wanted it for ceremonial bural, obviously i said no... but i figured i should ask here... i will not take any deals from the AI allies.

The Barbs will get the tech when they get the tech. It has no effect on our relationship with our neighbours since the Barbs are in a locked war with everyone and are rampantly corrupt.

On other matters, it looks to me that all the civs but one are on this landmass. If not, the Maya are going to be backwards. This argues against switching back to the Slingshot since the tech pace will be rapid.

 

[Abegweit]

sorry about the slingshot

It's all right. We'll survive. In the meantime, can you answer the question about Writing? Look back through your autosaves or something?

 

[juballs2001]

i have no idea when they got writing... i mean i met the byzantines on turn 10

 

[Abegweit]

Everyone knows it. We are down at least 5 techs to everyone except Sumeria (3). It's possible, I suppose, that they all learnt it at the same time but I doubt it.

 

[Redbad]

London can have 10% lux in 1910BC but Nottingham not. It's because Nottingham has no MP. So I think Yorks warrior to Nottingham and Hastings warrior on the scout.

The third shield of York and Hastings are corrupt. So Hastings should work a roaded iplain asap. York can now switch to iplain. The commerce will bring the research on philo down. Same applies for Nottinghams fifth shield.

btw. hearing Juballs story I'm in favour of continueing philo research and grab a free col if we get the option. I think it's a blessing after all that Juballs choose philo.

Considering the unhappiness working non-commercial tiles has in Nottingham maybe we should road the forests. We could even consider mining goatmountain in order to keep Nottingham smaller.

Btw. red dot looks to be a perfect launch-site when are our archers are going to thank Pachacuti for sharing Warrior Code with us.

I don't recall rocks, but there nice enough bonusses

 

[Abegweit]

Plans for this turn:

1. Wake up the warriors in Hastings and York. Get them out exploring.
2. I don't see any reason to change the city build order. Red-ltblue-blue.
3. For the moment, Canterbury should mostly get the sheep and Red the FP.
4. Switch Hastings to a worker.
5. Get a new dot map. We need it urgently.


Random thoughts:

Switching away from the Slingshot may not have been such a bad idea with two other sea civs on what effectively is a Pangea. We might well have failed.

We could try for the other one. Slow down research and trade for CoL in the Big Picture. I think it has a decent chance of success. The downside, of course, is that we may miss Philo too. I'd feel better about this if we knew Mysticism. But we don't even have CB

Stopping the AI (and therefore the Barbs) from reaching Astronomy is clearly an objective. Could well be doable on this map.

Should Canterbury get a granary? It could produce it fairly quickly with the sheep, the BG and a chop. It's a 3 turn worker factory now and 2 in Republic.

 

[Abegweit]

Considering the unhappiness working non-commercial tiles has in Nottingham maybe we should road the forests. We could even consider mining goatmountain in order to keep Nottingham smaller.

We are badly short of workers. Getting factories up in Canterbury and LtBlue are high priority. Then Nottingham can have what it needs.

 

[Redbad]

Should Canterbury get a granary? It could produce it fairly quickly with the sheep, the BG and a chop. It's a 3 turn worker factory now and 2 in Republic.

I think Canterbury fifth shield will be corrupt. That means with a granary it becomes a three turn worker factory. Working tiles are:
isheep, iplain, floodplain
iplain, iplain, floodplain
iplain, iplain, floodplain
It's rather MMing but York still can get most of the isheep. Reddot can't get floodplain in this plan.
I think it's very desireable to set up such a factory.

Edit:
However the bg and the chop are of little use. Only bg in range is permanently used by London. The only forest which could go to Canterbury, has to be chopped before reddot is settled. I suppose reddot can be founded with the next settler.

 

[Redbad]

We are badly short of workers. Getting factories up in Canterbury and LtBlue are high priority. Then Nottingham can have what it needs.

As can be seen in the above post, Canterbury doesn't need much improvement and there are 2 workers helping (York and Canterbury). With a 3-turn workerfactory and the regular stray workers from other cities we should be able to keep in pace with the settlers from London.

Lightblue is indeed a very promising site and could very well become a 2-turn workerfactory or even a new settlerfactory. However it needs severe improvement to get in working order. I do agree with you that it has high priority. But by high priority I don't mean that lightblue will get all the workers committed.

And I think you will agree that Nottingham has priority amoung the other cities. And 1 worker is enough to keep Nottingham on schedule. So I'm suggesting that Nottinghams current worker continues to support Nottingham.

 

[Abegweit]

However the bg and the chop are of little use. Only bg in range is permanently used by London. The only forest which could go to Canterbury, has to be chopped before reddot is settled. I suppose reddot can be founded with the next settler.

I had a brainfart about the BG I was thinking Canterbury could access the one by Red. If we had access to a wonder, the forest could go to Canterbury. This being the case, the possibility of changing the order is quite attractive. I suggest swapping ltblue and red. We'll get a wonder build when we get Philo.

I think you will agree that Nottingham has priority amoung the other cities. And 1 worker is enough to keep Nottingham on schedule. So I'm suggesting that Nottinghams current worker continues to support Nottingham.

Growth over everything. I think that city should build its own when it is about to reach size four and be folded back in when it is about to grow again.

Advantages:
a) more efficient use of shields.
b) additional work gets done.
c) avoiding ten turns at size four where the flip risk is greatest.
d) growth to size 5 from size 3 takes 14 turns instead of 17.

Disadvantages:
a)You'd have to crunch the numbers to work it out exactly but 1-2 fewer archers are built.

I don't feel strongly about either option though.

by high priority I don't mean that lightblue will get all the workers committed.

Of course not. It'll take about three or four though.

 

[Abegweit]

Notice in the Maintenance thread that BGs can't kill? Think hordes of redlined MoWs bombing the bejazus out of the Barbs. It would sure be easier to pull this off if they don't get their UU.

Do we need to slow the tech rate?

 

[Redbad]

IGrowth over everything. I think that city should build its own when it is about to reach size four and be folded back in when it is about to grow again.

I doubt if we'll reach understanding on this one, Abegweit.
I'm certainly not prioritising growth of some backwards city over Nottinghams archerbuild capacity. I think we have to see what the others think on the subject.

 

[Redbad]

Do we need to slow the tech rate?

Will that eliminate the barbs earlier

 

[Abegweit]

I doubt if we'll reach understanding on this one, Abegweit.
I'm certainly not prioritising growth of some backwards city over Nottinghams archerbuild capacity.

Actually I'm quite confident that we wil come to agreement. We have had several other disagreements in this thread and each time we eventually came to a consensus about the best way forward. That's a sign of a good team.

As to this particular case, I never suggested that growth of some backwards city should be prioritised over Nottingham. You want 'ham to have mined goats and roaded forests. I agree. That takes time and work. I think the best way to do it is to temporarily bleed off some population in order to get the job done (not to mention that it reduces flip risk). Hastings' soon-to-be-had worker can help too. If I am wrong any of this, please prove it. I will be more than ready to admit error.

In the meantime we have another city which may well become our most powerful producer after London itself - our still-to-established ltblue. As you said, it might have the potential to become a second settler factory. This will not be a backwards city and it needs support to grow too. A lot of it. One of the most important reasons to turn Canterbury into a worker factory is to feed them to ltblue.

We have three key cities: London, Nottingham and ltblue. London is ready. We now need to focus on the other two. In this regard, aside from the issue of forest cut, ltblue is already a better choice than red for our next city. In every way. More commerce. More growth.

Will that eliminate the barbs earlier?

That's the critical question behind every decision, isn't it? In this specific case, I think I was wrong to be frightened. Who cares if a PirateShip appears and kills a MoW? The MoW hoards (TM) will quickly solve that.

 

[Andronicus]

Plans for this turn:

1. Wake up the warriors in Hastings and York. Get them out exploring.

Yes - Hasting's goes S immediately then east to bust fog around light blue, York's goes east, then south

2. I don't see any reason to change the city build order. Red-ltblue-blue.

Your later arguments convince me that current settler in London should go to Lt blue, next to red, then blue (this way Canterbury's worker can go straight to forest and chop going to granary in Canterbury before red dot settled

3. For the moment, Canterbury should mostly get the sheep and Red the FP.

Canterbury should focus on shields until granary complete, then 3 turn worker factory as Redbad describes

4. Switch Hastings to a worker.

Yes

5. Get a new dot map. We need it urgently.

Yes, but I dont think it will change next 3 city sites and I would rather bust a little fog before revisiting dotmap. I will pause in my turnset when time for dotmap arrives for team discussion

Random thoughts:

Switching away from the Slingshot may not have been such a bad idea with two other sea civs on what effectively is a Pangea. We might well have failed.

We'll probably never know, but must go forward on plan for philo - free CoL, then self research republic

We could try for the other one. Slow down research and trade for CoL in the Big Picture. I think it has a decent chance of success. The downside, of course, is that we may miss Philo too. I'd feel better about this if we knew Mysticism. But we don't even have CB

My view is its too risky, but if majority of team want to give it a try ...

Stopping the AI (and therefore the Barbs) from reaching Astronomy is clearly an objective. Could well be doable on this map.

I'm not so concerned about this. The BGs worry me far more than pirate ships, and they are most concerning if grouped which is only likely in their capital. The sooner we get there the less they will have and the more advanced our units, the less awesome theirs will be - both reasons for maximising research and I include getting assistance from other civs in that (both pointy stick and trading )

PS "got it" but about to go to work so wont start playiong for another 7 hours or so

 

[Abegweit]

As Redbad pointed out, Nottingham needs an MP. So ixnay on the explorer from York. Instead move York to London and Ldon to 'ham. Switch cit @'ham to iPlains -> 20% lux this round and 10% next. Hastings can explore. We probably only need one explorer anyway.

Other than that I pretty much agree. Switch Canterbury to a granary. The worker there goes se and chops.

One thing which I probably don't need to say but, me being me, I will anyway... when you get philo, enter the Big Picture. If you can get CoL do it, no matter what it takes. In either case, that will be a big trading round and the whole thing should take place in the BP.

 

[Andronicus]

Question: what is the setting for the real barbs? Either Raging or Sedentary, I assume. To know we would have to open the save.

I know you posed this a long while ago but it is relevant now as if raging barbs we are likely to encounter them soon.
Is there a way of determining the barb setting from the save?

 

[Andronicus]

As Redbad pointed out, Nottingham needs an MP

Yes - when it grows.

Switch cit @'ham to iPlains -> 20% lux this round and 10% next.

Had already done

Switch Canterbury to a granary.

done

The worker there goes se and chops.

yes

One thing which I probably don't need to say but, me being me, I will anyway... when you get philo, enter the Big Picture. If you can get CoL do it, no matter what it takes. In either case, that will be a big trading round and the whole thing should take place in the BP.

No you dont need to say , but if I goof up now I've no excuse

 

[Abegweit]

Is there a way of determining the barb setting from the save?

Seedbeast says they are roaming. Pangea. 4 bil.

 

[Abegweit]

Can't get 10% lux unless it has an MP now.