SGOTM 10 - Team Liz

[Redbad]

Getting Coventry running is quite an effort and we might want to think whether there are easier (yet less promissing) spots to develop first with a more immediate trade off.

The cities we have now plus reddot are the cities that will matter most. The cities we will found later will be increasingly corrupt. It is better to improve, even if takes a considerable effort, a core city then quickly improve a corrupt one.

If we adopt the strategy of going to war shortly, improving reddot and Nottingham are as important as improving Coventry.

 

[Andronicus]

The cities we have now plus reddot are the cities that will matter most. The cities we will found later will be increasingly corrupt. It is better to improve, even if takes a considerable effort, a core city then quickly improve a corrupt one.

If we adopt the strategy of going to war shortly, improving reddot and Nottingham are as important as improving Coventry.

In view of this how do you feel about my plan outlined to get Coventry up and running in just over 20 turns, but requiring the use of 3 workers (we currently only have 5). I have allowed for 1 worker to continue developing Nott, 1 to mine the goat mountain (long job), then to Hastings as Nott should be complete, and the other current one not allocated to Coventry is destined to assist York then Canterbury. My plan wont have a worker for red dot unless Hasting's goes there now instead of mining goat mountain, or if we use only 2 workers on Coventry.
Of course once Coventry is operational as 2 turn worker factory we will have all we want (in just over 20 turns) as well as from Canterbury every 3 turns (not sure without save at work)

Maybe I'm answering my own question, but it seems to me on reflection more efficient to get Canterbury going as 3 turn worker factory first. This could be operational in about 10-12 turns then we would have enough workers to develop the military towns as well as Coventry.

Sorry this is rambling, I seem to have changed my mind, but I leave the arguments for both options for comments

edit in case it isnt clear
I propose Canterbury gets first priority for workers to get worker factory up and running soon after granary build. Then will have sufficient workers to devote to Nott, red dot and Coventry.

 

[Andronicus]

One more query

I plan getting HBR from Incans for CoL then sharing these around to other AI
The only way we can get HBR now is by including gpt - this locks us into waiting 20 turns for dow unless we want to trash our rep now (definite )
I favour doing the deal now and spending 20 turns building the military to take over Inca dude's land. Any dissenters?

 

[markh]

I would agree to your plan HBR for COL. We anyway have to build up a force and 20 turns will be good for this.

 

[Paul#42]

I do not favor gpt to Incas. Rather wait building chariots and get hbr when another civ has it. I'd gamble on hbr spreading faster than CoL.

Researching Maths first would give some AI a chance to go for the big 'C's while we do republic. I fear having to research both of them for ourselves even after a long minsci run on republic. Plus I sensed that we wanted to wait forming a republic anyway due to our military actions.

 

[Redbad]

@the worker commitments
I agree. Canterbury is now in need for a granary and should work shield-rich objects. Reddot needs population and can use the floodplain as long as Canterbury does not, while building the barracks. When Canterbury is running reddot will be improved in no time and will have some population. In the meantime Hastings can be improved by three workers.

@HBR
I'm in favour of doing the Inca deal. We're in no position to attack before turn 20 anyway. And I want, when attacking having our supply lines in order. This you may read as having reddot and Nottingham building horsemen.

 

[Andronicus]

All comments received thanks - about to play
plan
worker priority to
1) get Canterbury's 3 turn WF up
2) dev our military producers ie Nott, Hastings and Red dot
3) get Coventry up to 2 turn WF

trade
get HBR immed, tradde CoL and HBR around immed
buy / trade techs when avail and spread around

science
min research on Rep

military
build army of horses to thank Inca dude for trading HBR

settler
1 red dot
2 horse city
3 dark blue dot

 

[Andronicus]

I do not favor gpt to Incas. Rather wait building chariots and get hbr when another civ has it. I'd gamble on hbr spreading faster than CoL.

I'm not concerned about gpt making AI stronger, indeed may help them actually research something useful for us
Sooner AI has a tech the sooner they can research something else

Researching Maths first would give some AI a chance to go for the big 'C's while we do republic. I fear having to research both of them for ourselves even after a long minsci run on republic. Plus I sensed that we wanted to wait forming a republic anyway due to our military actions.

I expect we will have to research currency (and p'raps lit) after rep, hopefully AI does the rest of AA
I hope 50 turns is plenty long enough to wait to revolt, I think we should aim to have wiped at least Inca by then (looks like it might be you starting the war Paul )

 

[Redbad]

(looks like it might be you starting the war Paul )

So we know who to blame should we lose the war

 

[Paul#42]

Did I already state that I'm a pacifist (peaceful builder)?

No surprise that my only Gotm award so far was a 20k


Okay, if you looked at SGotm 9 thread you might find proof of my assault on the Celts with a record of 179-24 in five turns... Not quite like Bamspeedy's Beyond Sid numbers but I can do the job (when I had enough time for preparation)

Although fighting spears and swords with horses might take a slightly more sophisticated approach than slaughtering archers with MA...

 

[Andronicus]

Any votes for site of horse city
My thought is hill on river between mountain and olives (yellow dot)
Alternatives are green dot on desert or on horse hill itself
Playing on in half an hour

 

[Paul#42]

Yellow dot is a great site. It also has access to a flood plain, right? Not now, but in decent future
Settling on horses' hill spares us six turns of roading it...
Are we in a hurry or do we have to build barracks anyway first?

I have a slight preference for yellow.

So we know who to blame should we lose the war

Thanks for putting some pressure on me...

 

[Andronicus]

Settling on horses' hill spares us six turns of roading it...

Good point
7 turns to connect horses if settle hill, 14 if settle either yellow or green dot
We have 1 rax (in Nott) and could be building horses as soon as connected
Horse hill makes it easier to prevent pillaging of horses, but I expect us to be on the attack not defending

 

[Redbad]

From a military point of view settling on the horse is best:
it's fastest to connect the horse (Nottingham can switch as soon as the horses are connected)
it makes the horses immuun to pillaging

When our cities are coming founded further away from London the need for settling on rivers decreases. The far-of cities will become science-specialist cities which do not need to be bigger then size 6. I don't know of this is the case already for this city.

Anyway I find the military reasons sufficient for me. I vote for for settling on the horsehill.

 

[Andronicus]

Well of those avail for comment I think there is enough support for horse hill so horse hill it will be.
If later we decide to have FP in Cuzco , then yellow dot could be a reasonably productive large city and horse hill may want abandoning - this is well in the future and i think the advvantages of building horsies ASAP outweigh the negatives.

 

[Paul#42]

Well of those avail for comment I think there is enough support for horse hill so horse hill it will be.
If later we decide to have FP in Cuzco , then yellow dot could be a reasonably productive large city and horse hill may want abandoning - this is well in the future and i think the advvantages of building horsies ASAP outweigh the negatives.

Hey! One-on-one is enough support?!?
Okay I had a slight preference for yellow dot...
This will not turn out into another "Hm, Paul suggests left, let's go right"-game, will it?
Okay, go ahead *grumble*

 

[juballs2001]

the horse settlement makes sense.. saves us some time, turns and still makes a productive enough city out of it.

 

[Andronicus]

Hey! One-on-one is enough support?!?
Okay I had a slight preference for yellow dot...
This will not turn out into another "Hm, Paul suggests left, let's go right"-game, will it?
Okay, go ahead *grumble*

sorry Paul - it was actually your argument that swayed me from previously supporting yellow dot to preferring horse hill, thus with you "slightly" in favour of yellow dot it was 2:1 in favour of horse hill since I gave myself a vote
I certainly appreciated your comments and opinions and think you are making a valuable contribution to team discussion. I'm sure we will at some stage go left with you .

 

[Paul#42]

Okay, I guess I will have to put my advice into more meaningless phrases so no lurking reader detects nobody follows it...

No, wait. Getting horses earlier is totally okay with me, although I would have prefered it more (slightly maybe) if we had more than one barracks atm.

I do not feel ignored - not yet

And I am not taking things personally

And I am not talking to myself - huh?

 

[Andronicus]

Its just gone midnight and as I completed my write up and about to add the piccies my computer crashes and I hadnt saved notebook
I think I have most of the notes written down

The save is up on submissions page (I have now lost the link on my mouse )
Interestingly on territory we are 1 town behind Klarius at 1500BC with settler at dark blue dot ready to settle next turn so I think our expansion is going not too badly

Summary
Warwick settled at red dot, Newcastle on horse hill
Embassies est with all (except Dr Evil of course)
Byzantines built Colossus
No new techs since traded for HBR and gifted CoL and HBR around
Horses should connect in 3 turns
Incans have 3 towns, 2 building wonders. Their capital is defended by a spear and ... thats all

Barb Nation did another propaganda campaign resulting in riot in Coventry (I thought it flips if successful ) No sign of any local barbs - this surprises me.

Re typed turn log and piccies to follow