SGOTM 10 - Team Liz

[Abegweit]

I think different. Dr. Evil won't get a single tech if we do it the usual way : We reach a new era, gift all needed techs, grab free tech and eliminate him, all in the same turn before he can tell Dr. Evil

You may be right. Hard to know. Do dead civs count as known civs? It could be play-tested, of course.

Of course this only works once with every sci AI[/QUOTE]It only needs to work once - at the beginning of the IA. At the beginning of the ME, we can easily trade honestly for whatever they get. Hopefully they each get a different tech. In any case, we will research another one and trade tech for tech.

 

[Paul#42]

We might save one of those two for the next age - with my luck, both will draw the same freebie

But you are right, it might be that the thieves guild works different - I am quite sure that standard TGL works like that. That's tough to find out, there is a small risk of failure.

 

[Abegweit]

How much a flip risk can it be?!? No overlapping culture, distance from opponents capital extremely high - 1-2 warriors should easily do the job to take the risk to 0, right? But of course, no need to hurry, and it's only one single island we are talking about, right? It will probably be the last to be settled (unless there is a strategic resource there ). Low priority.

There is zero chance of cultural flip to the barbs. Flips won't happen unless there is a barb citizen in the city or barb culture in the fat 'X'. For example, we currently have a small chance of losing Brighton or Leeds to Gilgamesh because of border pressure. We have no worries about any flips to the barbs.

It's flip through propaganda that I am worried about. All civs currently have a 25% chance of losing a size 1 city to barb propaganda - and you can't stop it with MPs. We can reduce it to 5% by either switching to Republic or getting ahead in culture. Doing both would reduce it to zero.

Edit: more accurately, any civ that is still behind the barbs in culture has a 25% risk. Any civ that has gotten ahead has a 5% risk.

 

[Abegweit]

We might save one of those two for the next age - with my luck, both will draw the same freebie

If we betray one in the next age, the other won't let us away with it in the following one.

But you are right, it might be that the thieves guild works different - I am quite sure that standard TGL works like that. That's tough to find out, there is a small risk of failure.

I am sure that it works like the standard GL. This is not something that can be changed in the editor; it's hard coded. Are you sure that this is true of the GL? That, incidently, is why I said it could be play-tested. It could be done in any game. Gift a monopoly tech to civ you are about to destroy, then check to see if the GL civ got the techs.

 

[Redbad]

We can reduce it to 5% by either switching to Republic or getting ahead in culture. Doing both would reduce it to zero.

That will be achieved during Juballs reign

 

[Abegweit]

Oooh... can't wait for the details. Did we steal AI culture?

 

[Redbad]

Alright second time:


00 750 mm, army south, hurry galley, rop with thea, gil and bill

01 730 zzz

02 710 maya & thea: monarchy, construction, curragh enters ocean: differential movement

03 690
bill: monarchy
construction from thea for 29 gpt,
monarchy for construction + 299 from Bill
provoke maya and they dow us
alliance + 126 from gil for monarchy
alliance from bill for 193
Birmingham founded
curragh still floating

04 670 capture Copán, curragh reaches oversea land
05 650 found Richmond & Exeter
06 630 found Cambridge
ibt maya ally Byzantines against Sumeria, we make peace with maya for Lagartero and Yaxchilán + 37,
Coventry, Cuzco, Hastings, Nottingham and Warwick riot (lost war happiness)
07 610 road established with gil, can trade, investigate Chichén Itza, our curragh is chased by a barb galley

ibt rop with Maya, Maya complete temple of Artemis, Dutch complete Great Wall
08 590 we attack Chichén Itza and win (Artemis is ours ) curragh fortifies, found Gloucester
09 570 our curragh is destroyed by the barb galley
10 550 riot in Chichén Itza, Reading and Warwick because I disbanded Tiwanaku and so temporairly lost the wine

 

[Abegweit]

Ahhh... I was right. We DID steal AI culture.

 

[Andronicus]

Great news Redbad.
I opened up the progress charts before coming here and tried to work out how we had suddenly boosted culture big time (came up with thought that you had traded for lit and rushed libs). I wonder what other teams will make of it
With pyramids and ToA being "gifted" to us immed on being built we have been very lucky

 

[Redbad]

Yes, it's going great. Only setback was loosing the curragh. And I was clumbsy enough to riot two times. Still only 4 turns to republic. Maya insists on building the Hanging Gardens in Palenque, so it won't be that difficult to take the dude out. With ToA and soon 3 luxes there's hardly any need for lux slider.

 

[juballs2001]

im up next?

well lets let the discussion begin... what exactly are we trying to accomplish this turnset?
dont want to screw wanything up

 

[Andronicus]

Notice that for first time we are equal with barbies in area and ahead in pop. We still rate weak to them militarily.
Other continent appears to be unsettled where our curragh reached. I guess barbie has lots of room to expand at leisure
@ Redbad - what was the reasoning behind changing Exeter's site? I thought 1NE with second city on the NW tip would maximise tile usage

 

[Abegweit]

what was the reasoning behind changing Exeter's site? I thought 1NE with second city on the NW tip would maximise tile usage

Ditto with Birmingham. Wasn't it supposed to go 1 s?

Edit: and Tiwanaku. Why is the settler to the north?

 

[Andronicus]

@ juballs
You have 4 turns 'till republic comes in, then revolt
Important tasks
Maintain SF - London should put out 1 more settler on your 3rd turn
Maintain 2 worker factories - Coventry is straight forward 2 turner, keep working those same tiles, Canterbury is a more complex 3 turner - for 2 turns it uses FP, 2* plains for 3fpt excess, then for 1 turn it takes the sheep from York in place of a plains for 4pt -> 10 food over 3 turns. It produces 3spt and gets the tenth on growth from the hill
Optimise FP build in Cuzco - we want ASAP
There will likely be more discussion on military plans - I favour continuing on to wipe out Mayans looking for opportunities to use elites against damaged units, then its either on to Dutch or back to Sumeria. Sumeria has better lands for supporting scientists so gets my vote.
Tech - once in Republic we want max research on currency (unless we get lucky and an AI discovers it first). Keep checking every turn to see if AI have researched currency or lit.
Diplomacy - Byz are our friends - for now. They and Sumerians are scientific so worth keeping for their free techs.

Following emergence into rep we will need major MM to get our finances in order - reg warriors currently useful as mp will need disbanding (preferably in semi corrupt towns). We will need markets and libs particuarly in our core.
Our settler and worker factories will require re-thinking - we definitely need to keep producing both.

I'm sure others will have further thoughts

 

[Abegweit]

im up next?

well lets let the discussion begin... what exactly are we trying to accomplish this turnset?
dont want to screw wanything up

1. Finish off the Maya.
2. Revolt the second you can.
3. Turn the army around towards Gil. You can probably start the war. Enjoy.

 

[Abegweit]

Maintain 2 worker factories - Coventry is straight forward 2 turner, keep working those same tiles, Canterbury is a more complex 3 turner

Worker factory has moved. It is now a two-turner in York. I haven't crunched the numbers yet but I believe that, in Republic, we have a second settler factory in Coventry and 2-turn workers in both York and Canterbury.

Following emergence into rep we will need major MM to get our finances in order - reg warriors currently useful as mp will need disbanding (preferably in semi corrupt towns). We will need markets and libs particuarly in our core.

Markets... yes. Libs? I think this takes a lot of discussion, but my gut says is that we won't need 'em. In any case, we haven't reached that point yet and won't even in your turns. For the next little while, the only infra we need is harbours and perhaps the odd barracks.

We are still expanding. Horses. Workers. Settlers.

 

[Abegweit]

Re: Bill

He looks like prime leader-farm material. His lands are poor. Bad farming. No mining. Let him keep the three cities in the south and send out a stream of archers for us to slaughter. No long as he is kept free of the corrupting influence of iron, he will a fine friend indeed.

 

[Andronicus]

Worker factory has moved. It is now a two-turner in York.

Oops - I missed that one - actually, it neeeds to grow to get enough shields - currently if uses fish, oysters and sheep at size 4 it can only get 1 more shield using plains -> 3spt, not enough even with hill added at growth. By time it gets to size 5 we will have revolted

I haven't crunched the numbers yet but I believe that, in Republic, we have a second settler factory in Coventry and 2-turn workers in both York and Canterbury.

I'm pretty sure thats correct

Markets... yes. Libs? I think this takes a lot of discussion, but my gut says is that we won't need 'em. In any case, we haven't reached that point yet and won't even in your turns. For the next little while, the only infra we need is harbours and perhaps the odd barracks.

Agree markets before libs. Guess I'm just impatient to get up to speed with research. I see us as falling behind other teams in this one area only.

 

[Andronicus]

Re: Bill

He looks like prime leader-farm material. His lands are poor. Bad farming. No mining. Let him keep the three cities in the south and send out a stream of archers for us to slaughter. No long as he is kept free of the corrupting influence of iron, he will a fine friend indeed.

No big deal but Bill does have Great Wall

edit - noticed Bill has taken at least 1 Mayan city Tikal

 

[Abegweit]

Oops - I missed that one

Me too. I didn't even look. I just assumed that it would be doing the job now. Oxford needs to give the fish back.

Guess I'm just impatient to get up to speed with research. I see us as falling behind other teams in this one area only.

That's what farms are for. Anyway, I think that the Barb wars will be a long slog. Well-prepared vs early start? It's a trade-off. One question we need to think about is how far we want to go in research. I believe that industrialisation is the minimum.

No big deal but Bill does have Great Wall.

Leader farming does not involve taking down cities. Let him keep it. Yes Tikal does need to be ours and grabbing it would be easier if he didn't have the Wall. Oh well.