Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Another reason for MoWs is exploration. If Caravels attempt it, they simply die to the galley swarms. We've already learnt that.Andronicus said:
SGOTM 10 - Team Liz
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Abegweit
Anarchist trader
I just did an analysis of production and research costs. Production and upgrade are shown in the attached file. I haven't done the MM necessary to figure out whether all of this works, but it should be pretty close. Upgrade costs are roughly 275 gpt.
Research costs to Mag are 3960 beakers. Our science farms should easily be able to do 120 bpt. This means that in order to work 4-turn research, we require roughly 375 bpt from the slider. 50% science should do it, leaving over 200 gpt. In other words, about than we need. The conclusion is that we actually can do 4-5 turn research AND upgrade everything we need.
There is also the small matter of 41 horses which need to be upgraded ASAP. This can be done in about 4.5 turns with 0 science and 0 taxmen.
In view of this, I suggest that we run 5-6 turns running science strictly from the farms. We then can up the rate once everything has been upgraded. This should get us to MoWs roughly at the end of Andronicus' turns and to railroads in the next set. Note that the farms are more efficient at science than tax. For the slider, it is the other way around.
This seems like a pretty good compromise.
The only reasonable alternative is to try and build cavs from the boonies. A 2-turn cav in the boonies cost 95 gpt (and it doesn't help much to delay them more turns). This money would be better invested in getting railroads for our core to improve our production there after the GA is over.
Research costs to Mag are 3960 beakers. Our science farms should easily be able to do 120 bpt. This means that in order to work 4-turn research, we require roughly 375 bpt from the slider. 50% science should do it, leaving over 200 gpt. In other words, about than we need. The conclusion is that we actually can do 4-5 turn research AND upgrade everything we need.
There is also the small matter of 41 horses which need to be upgraded ASAP. This can be done in about 4.5 turns with 0 science and 0 taxmen.
In view of this, I suggest that we run 5-6 turns running science strictly from the farms. We then can up the rate once everything has been upgraded. This should get us to MoWs roughly at the end of Andronicus' turns and to railroads in the next set. Note that the farms are more efficient at science than tax. For the slider, it is the other way around.
This seems like a pretty good compromise.
The only reasonable alternative is to try and build cavs from the boonies. A 2-turn cav in the boonies cost 95 gpt (and it doesn't help much to delay them more turns). This money would be better invested in getting railroads for our core to improve our production there after the GA is over.
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Redbad
should have shaved
I must say I kind of like Abegweits compromise. As a fact I'm a bit compromising with myself about this too.
Although at this stage I don't fear (yet
) the barbarian vessels I can't honestly believe Gyathaar lets us get away with it using only cavalry. O.t.o.h. I do like to destroy all things barbarian that can be destroyed by using cavalry. If we do that asap than the things we can't destroy can't hinder us much when we research the needed techs. So abegweitss compromise fits that perfectly.
Until we know more I wouldn't go past researching steam. It's supremely useful for boosting production and research (scientist towns that is).
Although at this stage I don't fear (yet
) the barbarian vessels I can't honestly believe Gyathaar lets us get away with it using only cavalry. O.t.o.h. I do like to destroy all things barbarian that can be destroyed by using cavalry. If we do that asap than the things we can't destroy can't hinder us much when we research the needed techs. So abegweitss compromise fits that perfectly. Until we know more I wouldn't go past researching steam. It's supremely useful for boosting production and research (scientist towns that is).
Okay, I can live with that compromise.
(Actually it's similar to what I would do in a single player game 
)
So I think (right now, to be convinced later) that Steam is our final aim but time could prove that we should go to anphi... amfi... that Marines technology
.
Good luck.
juballs? Any comment on your turns?
(Actually it's similar to what I would do in a single player game
)So I think (right now, to be convinced later) that Steam is our final aim but time could prove that we should go to anphi... amfi... that Marines technology
.Good luck.
juballs? Any comment on your turns?
juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
you missed quite a bit... andro and i swapped... he is doing my micromanagement turn...Paul#42 said:Okay, I can live with that compromise.
(Actually it's similar to what I would do in a single player game
So I think (right now, to be convinced later) that Steam is our final aim but time could prove that we should go to anphi... amfi... that Marines technology
Good luck.
juballs? Any comment on your turns?
i am doing his reak havoc and kill the barbs turn
he is good at the specifics of growth/production. i am good at the whole killing enemies aspect of the game
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Exactly! Which is why delaying the science push makes sense but putting it totally aside would be a mistake. I agree with everything else you have to say.Redbad said:I don't fear (yet
I am still convinced that there is a reason why we are English. I once thought it was about BGs but my test scenario appears to have put the kabosh on that notion. PSs are the only other reason I can think of. Mind you, frigates would be decent against them too.
Andronicus
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Got no internet access so this is a short message on work computer - hope to get file upload tonite
MT is in and can do 4 turn research with almost 300gpt to pay for upgrades
Will reassess situation after magnetism to have team discussion whether to cont research at that stage (I hope to have all horses upgraded by then)
Of interest our caravel off west coast has found a 1 tile island between us and barb land - I will drop a slave on it and continue to circumnavigate barb land looking for any other 1 tile islands
MT is in and can do 4 turn research with almost 300gpt to pay for upgrades
Will reassess situation after magnetism to have team discussion whether to cont research at that stage (I hope to have all horses upgraded by then)
Of interest our caravel off west coast has found a 1 tile island between us and barb land - I will drop a slave on it and continue to circumnavigate barb land looking for any other 1 tile islands
Andronicus
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Whilst playing today I could not figure out why we thought Dr Evil had astronomy (my internet being out at home meant I could not check this thread). During my set Bill started building Sistine so I assume they have only just learned Theology and still have Education to go before Astronomy.
I now checked through the thead to find why we thought Dr Evil had astronomy and the only reference I could find was my stating - Bill had Astronomy so Dr Evil must also have it - after Redbad's turnset. Was I mistaken (being at work I cant check the save).
If this is the case we are safe to load our units up and assault Barb Nation directly.
Currently on turn 4 and are 1 turn from physics and 5 turns from Magnetism. Have captured Lagash, Umma and Sumer. Current military includes 25 cavs (3 elite), 27 horse (4 elite), 14 caravels - 1 exploring clockwise, 2 exploring anticlockwise
PS slave is blocking 1 tile island off our west coast
Question : Do we cont the 5 turns to MoW or stop research and maximise cav production by funding horse -> cav upgrades? I have been hand building cavs everywhere except York (15spt - 2 turn horses).
My feeling is we have gone 3 turns past MT now, might as well go another 5 to Magnetism, then switch off science.
I now checked through the thead to find why we thought Dr Evil had astronomy and the only reference I could find was my stating - Bill had Astronomy so Dr Evil must also have it - after Redbad's turnset. Was I mistaken (being at work I cant check the save).
If this is the case we are safe to load our units up and assault Barb Nation directly.
Currently on turn 4 and are 1 turn from physics and 5 turns from Magnetism. Have captured Lagash, Umma and Sumer. Current military includes 25 cavs (3 elite), 27 horse (4 elite), 14 caravels - 1 exploring clockwise, 2 exploring anticlockwise
PS slave is blocking 1 tile island off our west coast
Question : Do we cont the 5 turns to MoW or stop research and maximise cav production by funding horse -> cav upgrades? I have been hand building cavs everywhere except York (15spt - 2 turn horses).
My feeling is we have gone 3 turns past MT now, might as well go another 5 to Magnetism, then switch off science.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
I wondered about Astro. It seemed to come up fast early.
Since we've come this far, IMO, we should go to rails. No rush. just use the farms and whatever spare cash you have to get there. Since you seem to be concentrating on beating up the locals, buy cities too.
Good work on finding the one-tile islands. These are obviously crucial.
Since we've come this far, IMO, we should go to rails. No rush. just use the farms and whatever spare cash you have to get there. Since you seem to be concentrating on beating up the locals, buy cities too.
Good work on finding the one-tile islands. These are obviously crucial.
Andronicus
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Abegweit said:
Actually if we didnt know about it already Klarius's spoiler gives it away
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Maybe that city will flip to the barbs? 
Can it be used as a staging point to get us through PirateShip-infested waters?
Can it be used as a staging point to get us through PirateShip-infested waters?
Andronicus
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Abegweit said:
Because of differential movement the coast tiles are best avoided, but a sea tile can be used as halfway point in crossing to southern landing
My internet is back online
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Is it possible to ship-chain this way?
Andronicus
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YesAbegweit said:
10 char
Andronicus
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Quick update - Gil is down to 1 city, we are 1 turn from magnetism and our forces are starting to assemble to transport overseas.
All bar 3 horse have been upgraded whilst maintaining 4 turn research, plan is now to switch low production (3-20spt) towns to horses for cash upgrades whilst using primarily scientists for research
We have about 50 cavs and rising fast. I would like to get these over to barb land before Dr Evil gets astronomy, however we now have sufficient caravels that naval builds can be switched to MoWs
Will complete my turns tomorrow
edit
Tried uploading piccie from civassist (as I had already closed civ) but it didnt work.
Will give some picccies when post tomorrow
All bar 3 horse have been upgraded whilst maintaining 4 turn research, plan is now to switch low production (3-20spt) towns to horses for cash upgrades whilst using primarily scientists for research
We have about 50 cavs and rising fast. I would like to get these over to barb land before Dr Evil gets astronomy, however we now have sufficient caravels that naval builds can be switched to MoWs
Will complete my turns tomorrow
edit
Tried uploading piccie from civassist (as I had already closed civ) but it didnt work.
Will give some picccies when post tomorrow
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Looking good.
G'night.
G'night.
juballs2001 said:
Ah, it had sound like you had played and Andro had found your submitted save and took it.
I'm in favor of invading Pirates Island from our NW towns soon. Battles there might bring us a leader sooner and might provide us with more information.
I don't like losing so much more time before testing their strength (and weaknesses). This said by someone who usually waits till he has overwhelming forces...
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Fifty cavs is scarcely weak.... Hopefully there's the odd musket too.
Andronicus
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Paul#42 said:Looking at the spoilers, we have an incredibly strong start. Pyramides, (short) ToA, well timed GA - let's concentrate to bring in the harvest
Who's doing our spoiler?
I agree we have been fortunate to have pyramids on our island and well timed GA.
I would not be in any great rush with the spoiler as I think it gives some idea of dates to aim for. Certainly from reading the posted spoilers our window of opportunity for sneaking ahead of more scientifically advanced teams is not huge.
I agree we should hit soon.
1 caveat. I suggest we be very careful to minimise WW until we are out of our GA and have an overwhelming force on Brb continent. I think once we rate average to barbs we should be able to revolt to monarchy if WW is too bad and still maintain the attack. I hope we can delay any revolt for some time
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