SGOTM 10 - Team Liz

[Andronicus]

Yes, didn't consider that. Was too focused on rushing, upgrading and shipping units. We have a good number of settlers on the way, so these new towns should reduce our unit costs considerably. At the moment these costs are rising fast. Maybe we should switch the "Wealth"-cities back to settlers.

I dont think we will need more settlers in 30 turns - I certainly hope not

 

[markh]

I dont think we will need more settlers in 30 turns - I certainly hope not

I do hope so, too.

 

[Andronicus]

I don't think they have finished yet, 360 tiles territory and half our score can't be enough to accomplish the mission. Right?

Well if they went science path they should have discovered cavs and caravels much sooner than us and though probably lacking our production should be able to produce enough cavs to take Barbaria - makes me think Dr Evil is not so strong. Whatever, we need to press on with urgency I think, but care not to have too many losses (WW). All the more reason to boost our tax income to maximise our cavs in Barbaria.

 

[Paul#42]

Thanks for the arrow-map. Good plan. I especially like the red trail. at least we should do some recon.

I'd also upgrade those ehorses. We won't use them on our continent and they are too slow indeed. If Bill is annoying us, our then produced cavs (and the left back MDIs) can take care of him.

 

[juballs2001]

i will play today

 

[juballs2001]

is there a reason our saltpepper is not connected?

 

[juballs2001]

well guys, im 2 turns in... these turns are taking 20-30 minutes each...

i will play 3 more and post my results tommorow noght.

update though, i have razed 5 barb cities.
the southern part is gone, and the north is being penetrated. our calvaries dont seem to be fairing as well as i hoped, a lot are retreating from battle. but we got numbers and we will take them out

 

[Andronicus]

is there a reason our saltpepper is not connected?

Did you not read the posts!!!

This is the key to us getting large numbers of cavs. We build horses and upgrade them to cavs thanks to Leo's. This requires resourse connect at beginning of turn (3 workers on salt) and disconnect at end of turn (pike on salt pillages).

Once we are out of our GA all rax cities that cannot make 20spt should build horses and then upgrade them. For this you will need large sums of money, hence the zero science and tax farms.

Please go back and read the posts, these points have been discussed multiple times

 

[Andronicus]

well guys, im 2 turns in... these turns are taking 20-30 minutes each...

i will play 3 more and post my results tommorow noght.

update though, i have razed 5 barb cities.
the southern part is gone, and the north is being penetrated. our calvaries dont seem to be fairing as well as i hoped, a lot are retreating from battle. but we got numbers and we will take them out

Expect turns to take an hour if you are doing all the MMing with tax farms and ship chaining cavs and settlers across - 20-30 min is rushing IMO.

edit
The key to minimising losses is attacking in strength with numbers so barbs dont get a chance to heal between turns from an incomplete attack on a city.
Expect to lose an average of 1 cav per core city with multiple retreats.
Attacking with stacks of 10-15 should suffice until we meet BGs.
Retreats are no problem as they can heal.
Healing can be sped up with a central rax town - perhaps near site of ...potec (full name not visible on my map on post 640).
Use slave to rush rax.
As this speeds getting cavs back into the action it will be money well spent

 

[juballs2001]

im doin the ship chaining as well as the calvary movement/attacks...

the whole tax thing is a little complex for me, but im doing my best

edit:

you know what guys... i have had a while to think about this... im gonna post the save tommorow. im in over my head in this game with the MMing. i cannot keep up with the 17 pages of posts!
so, i will post the 2 turns i did and the save tommorow and you guys can take it from there.

it was an honour to play with you guys... this game is just past me.... thanks.

i will browse in and out... see how we are doing, best of luck guys, i will post when i can!
-Juballs

 

[Paul#42]

juballs, sorry to hear that but I appreciate your honorable decision.

I will play tonight.

edit: Mark, feeling all right after yesterday's heartbreaker?

 

[markh]

edit: Mark, feeling all right after yesterday's heartbreaker?

Uh, exhausting game. I was almost falling from my sofa when Klose and Ballack hit the bar within a second. I could not believe it and what a relief when Neuville scored. Big game. When I still played football I liked those games the most. The tension growing until the end and then scoring the goal in the last second. Far better than winning 4-0.

SGOTM : Have fun with all those nice toys in Barbieland.

 

[Paul#42]

Yep, the only thing I was missing was a nice comback-from-behind which I also like. But compared to another famous Germany's 1:0-win (against Austria back in 1982) it was really fantastic for a one-goal-game...

Looking at A-team's frozen postcount I'm also nearly convinced that this is their victory date... To achieve our victory fast I will devide our forces where the terrain allows it (and no roads can help). We really have to hurry then.

Having slaves is nice but I might delay razing at least the first captured towns till the end of each turn to profit from the "cultural"-ring... If barracks are in there I might also risk keeping them for a turn or two to rest wounded units. Settlers will slow it down too much.

 

[Paul#42]

Got it.

Will play tonight and probably tomorrow night.

 

[Andronicus]

Having slaves is nice but I might delay razing at least the first captured towns till the end of each turn to profit from the "cultural"-ring... If barracks are in there I might also risk keeping them for a turn or two to rest wounded units. Settlers will slow it down too much.

I think there are quite a few settlers making their way to Barbaria. I dont know whether juballs did it or not but a town 2NE of NO will allow ship chaining dropping off units in a town and thereby not using up a movement turn. A second town that is central (I suggested near ...potec) with rushed rax would be safer to use as base to speed healing

My thoughts on factors that will impact on our speed of finishing
We need as many cavs as possible at the front as soon as possible
Producing large numbers after our GA will be dependent upon horse -> cav upgrades
Affording these upgrades requires maximising income
Attacking in large stacks minimises chances of damaged Barb units healing
A rax near the front allows for rapid healing of retreated cavs getting them back fighting sooner
BS will likely require a very large stack, hence my suggestion of bringing divided forces together for this attack. By the time we have destroyed the other Barb cities (?18) in ? 9 turns we should have over 150 cavs at the front, hopefully enough will be healed and ready
Oh and dont forget a contingent to what appears to be an island in the NE of Barbaria

Have fun

 

[Paul#42]

So, I played 2 turns (nearly)...

killing ratio of 27-5, 8 elite victories, but no leader.
I wanted to let you have part of a sight one of our brave cavs had somewhere in the jungle

@Andro: Did not read your post yet... too late... must

Will go on tomorrow.

 

[Paul#42]

Okay, I'm quite asleep now...
Some points:

The screenie decieves: I went to zero science, the 43 turns to banking is due to a scientist already (or soon to be) changed to a taxman.

I landed 4 cavs on the NE barb island, there's another one to be taken later.
A galleon was rushed on our east coast to launch another attack from theer and to be ready for a surprise island to show up...

Some settlers go south to secure luxuries (gems and ivory)

There are ~15 stray barbarian units in the southern hills - I let them walk, there's no settler around. Every now and then our Recon reg cav will kill one of them.

Our MoWs patrol (and rule ) the seas. No need to build more as they already enslave barb galleys. There's no need to fear barbarian sea power.

Some settlers far away from the shipping point (>4 turns) will found fishing villages, each will provide instant 5gpt.
I also began joining workers to "finance farms"

I gifted three luxuries to Billy Boy to keep him relaxed.

I want a MGL badly but no luck so far
There are still too few elite units available

Under time pressure, progress has priority over leader fishing, so I don't (which I would normally do) leave injured units for cheap elite wins and do use 3/5- or 4/5hp cavs to attack pikes if necessary (with good results so far).

I plan to take out one BG soon to have a look over that mountain chain for further planning. Anasazi will give a good jump there for cavs to attack from just out of reach of the BGs. I think, I will take one on the corner, to have at least one BG not shooting at our units...

Any further tips?

 

[Andronicus]

I plan to take out one BG soon to have a look over that mountain chain for further planning. Anasazi will give a good jump there for cavs to attack from just out of reach of the BGs. I think, I will take one on the corner, to have at least one BG not shooting at our units...

Any further tips?

The tests we did on Abegweit's setup were against BGs in a town on flat ground. These monsters have an additional 4 hit points - count em there's 8!, plus they are fortified on a mountain in fortification. I make that 32 defence .
The good news is we dont have to kill em all. I assume they guard the way to Barbarian Stronghold, but there is no way of seeing past the mountains without first taking out a BG. I think we should continue around the outside (trying to attack outside towns from a position more than 3 tiles from BGs to avoid being bombarded which produces WW as well as leaving fewer units to attack next turn). This should give us a picture of what we are up against. The only way they make sense is if they completely surround BS. (if we could just sneak around behind it would be too easy).

I recall in a COTM (I think it was Monguls) where we were up against Chinese Great Wall Guards. One strategy to get rid of them was to plant a city next door. Of course us being at war they are not going to retreat but they might if damaged (and if not at least they cant heal if in our territory).
I recommend settling next to one immed prior to attacki9ng. I recommend launching a mass attack with at least 100 cavs. Once through then I would hope half a doz cavs should finish off BS. Once we do this we will lose quite a number of units (and many retreats) making WW aproblem which is another reason to leave until last

 

[Andronicus]

Other thought

If Zapotec flips we lose furs -> riots. I recomend settling our own citizen, but just out of range of BGs to ensure we have furs. A rushed rax there would be useful for healing.

 

[Paul#42]

I recall in a COTM (I think it was Monguls) where we were up against Chinese Great Wall Guards. One strategy to get rid of them was to plant a city next door. Of course us being at war they are not going to retreat but they might if damaged (and if not at least they cant heal if in our territory).
I recommend settling next to one immed prior to attacki9ng. I recommend launching a mass attack with at least 100 cavs. Once through then I would hope half a doz cavs should finish off BS. Once we do this we will lose quite a number of units (and many retreats) making WW aproblem which is another reason to leave until last

A town next to the mountain at least allows us to climb them and still have movement left, once the BG is defeated. I hope there are no towns tight behind those mountains so we get them into our cultural borders.

Apart from Abegweit's simulation I will at least run a "5-cav-test" to find out, what these guys are really made of. Is it possible, that there are more than one in the fortress? Does it hide other units like a town does?
Losing a lux won't be a major setback as it would only hit a single city. I will keep (retake) it till settlers are there. They are moving too slow

The counter attacks are really weak, only two (lb and knight, both lost to cavs on hills ) last IBT. I even kept a single redlined (by a BG) cav on a hill in barb territory alive