SGOTM 10 - The A Team

[ThERat]

now that we are at war with Byz (we gifted them into their GA and now we fight them, not really a bright move IMHO), we better watch out for their deadly dromons

 

[socralynnek]

So, here are my questions:

What to research after Navigation? Stop altogether?

- My opinion: I think we need Magnetism. As soon as the barbs have Astro, they'll build their pirate ship, which can enslave. To counter them, Man-O-War will be hepful.
But money for upgrades is also nice, maybe we should stop for a few turns, then go for Magnetism after upgrading.

Using a leader in Huamanga for MilAc and hand-building Pentagon in Newcastle?
I guess this is what you had in mind (and I agree because we want to gold-rush armies anyways, so we can build it in a small city)

Destroying Byz?

I guess that depends on flip risk, but we'd better destroy them.
ATM I am also fearing their dromons, they still can build them...

What do I do if WW IV kicks in before we have Navigation?

- I think an Anarchy would hurt us more. With the lux we get at Navigation, I think and hope WW is manageable and at least then it can't get any worse, or not?


I think, as soon as we see a barb musket we could send an army to pillage Salpeter (if we know where it is) or we try to destroy that town.

I don't think we need Marines to capture the Stronghold, but let's wait and see. We hopefully only need to destroy one Guard to get thorugh. But maybe the whole area inside is filled with guards.

So, these are my thoughts. I am waiting until tomorrow evening or Saturday morning until playing.

 

[socralynnek]

RE: killercane's post

I think we should first take out more cities and scout a little more until we finalize a plan, but it surely doesn't hurt having a plan with the information we have.

We have two options : - bombing down the guards
- producing more armies

Throwing cavs at them is a waste of shields IMO we'd lose too many (but we might have enough then)

 

[killercane]

I think we will have enough after taking out all the other cities. We dont need magnetism. PIrate ships arent that deadly and soon the Barbs wont have any coastal cities to produce them . I estimate the Barbs have between 13 and 15 cities left.

I dont think we will be in any shape to attack the stronghold this turnset. Just try to do damage to the Byz and get that cav army over to barb land (and the one there filled up with Cavs). See if you can take a few cities in the North with fast moving troops, sending maybe the slower MDIs to the south and those couple of cities. But it is really up to you, thats just off the top of my head.

I think the Byz will go down quick with those 2 armies. Dont forget we cant add a third cav to that army yet til it is in Barbland.

 

[Obormot]

Yes, it is better to split fast and slow troops in Barbaria, otherwise the slow ones will be useless. Byz should fall soon, so you can capture Byz cities. You can raze them too if you want to, just don't raze Leo's. And prepair a stack of workers for connecting/disconnecting saltpeter. If more WW will kick in, just use the slider, 50% or even 60% is OK. Then drop it back when once the luxes are connected.

 

[hendrikszoon]

What to research after Navigation? Stop altogether?

Also in my opinion it is better to go also for Magnetism because of the same reasons mentioned by socralynnek.

Destroying Byz??

When you are starting a war at this time and you don't destroy the Cities of your victim, then you have to eliminate the Civilization completely.

What do I do if WW IV kicks in before we have Navigation?

Then we have a real problem. But this should not happen. I got Level 3 War Weariness in my last turn. But you should not destroy or capture too many cities.

I think, as soon as we see a barb musket we could send an army to pillage Salpeter (if we know where it is) or we try to destroy that town.

When I started my session all Civilizations had Gunpowder. So also the Barbarians had it. And they had ten turns to upgrade some Pikemen to Musketeers. But they didn't. There is only one explanation: Until now they have no Saltpeter connected. But this can change.

I don't think we need Marines to capture the Stronghold, but let's wait and see.

It is definetely sure that we don't need Marines. It is impossible that the Barbarian Stronghold lies on an island. If this would be, we could never cross the lake, because we couldn't build a City - and without a City we wouldn't be able to build ships - at the coast of the lake (Mountains everywhere).

We hopefully only need to destroy one Guard to get thorugh. But maybe the whole area inside is filled with guards.

It is right that we have only to kill one Barbarian Guard to get the possibility to go through. But there is another problem: The Mountain. Before the troops can attack the Barbarian Stronghold they stop on the Mountain and get a bombardement of at least six other Barbarian Guards. And we don't know what is expecting us in the Stronghold. I am sure there are additional Barbarian Guards placed in the Stronghold. The only question is: How many they are?

 

[ThERat]

I think we are a little too optimistic about getting through that stack of guards. They have a bombardment range of 3, so we need Cavs to attack. Even if we get down one of them, as mentioned we have to stop on the mountain for 1 turn. We do not know what lies behind.

Unfortunately, we can't wait until we have bombers, so that's the only way to attack. We need a huge stack with armies and hopefully take 1 guard out, move our stack onto the mountain and eliminate the city on the next turn.

 

[Obormot]

The bad thing is all our units will be down to 1HP as they approach the barb guards, armies will have more left, but would still be badly damaged.

 

[killercane]

Do our units stop on the barricade/fortress thing even if they are in our territory? In other word the fortress is in our territory and controlled by us.

 

[killercane]

The bad thing is all our units will be down to 1HP as they approach the barb guards, armies will have more left, but would still be badly damaged.

There is no stack bombard so only the top units (armies) will be affected by the bombardment when we stack them and move them together. They will only be shot at when they move by the guards on either side of them. And on the interturn when the barbs have a free pot shot at them.

 

[killercane]

After looking at the pics some more and double checking, those are barricades not fortresses. There is no bonus for barricades, we just stop on that tile, correct? Perhaps we can move an empty army or two under our stack to add in cavs on the next turn so that we will have a full health couple of armies ready to go next turn. So a stack of lots of cavs +muskets to take the brunt of the attack and add in those cavs to take the city? After we have an opening of course.

 

[ThERat]

barricades will stop us, they are mountains in enemy territory anyway and I don't see how we would get this to neutral territory, I am sure the culture influence of the stronghold is reaching far enough (Gyathaar would be smart enough to do this).

Anyway, i think that said strategy is a good one. We have to fill the armies with 1 cav though to get the required movement unless the culture borders are only reaching the mountain.
So, we need as many armies as possible and a huge stack of Cav's.

 

[killercane]

barricades will stop us, they are mountains in enemy territory anyway and I don't see how we would get this to neutral territory,

Pretty simple to overcome (see picture), but you are right that I think barricades even in our territory will stop us, maybe someone can shed some light on it. But by using a combat settler we can put them in our territory and move the empty army under the stack. Or even one tile away from our cultural borders, like you said, not even needing the second settler. It would be nice to have that within our borders however, for what its worth.

Leave it to Gyathaar to make us analyze what the hell a barricade does and how it is different from a fortress.

Also in my opinion it is better to go also for Magnetism because of the same reasons mentioned by socralynnek.

I am still not convinced of this. The pirate ships are not so scary and doing physics +Magnetism is a lot of cash we can use to destroy all their coastal cities before the pirates become a problem.

 

[socralynnek]

I think, after Navigation I am going for cash first to do some upgrades.
We can then decide after my turnset if Magnetism is worth it.
Maybe we know by then how many coastal cities they have and if we can get rid of them soon.

 

[socralynnek]

I will play now.

 

[socralynnek]

Computer crashed in 370 AD... reload. Destroy Nicae in 370 AD.

In the interturn I see two pirate ships moving around. Lose a Caravel to a Dromon.
Dutch don't extend ROP but we don't need it anymore for connecting Salpeter.

400 AD - Raze Apache (barb)
Found Reading and Birmingham to fill the gap to our salpeter city to prevent Dutch from settling there.
A caravel got bombed and destroyed by a Dromon while healing in a city.
Byz have at least one isalnd city.

410 AD - Raze another Byz city.

420 AD - We lose Teoihuacan. The barbs were sending some Knights and finally got that city. Recapture it but WW IV has kicked in. At least we have Navigation now.
Rush a harbor in the ivory city.
harbor in city on barb island done using two chops. Form a silk colony.

Set lux to 50% and fire all scientists except for one.

430 AD - We lost the Cav army which was filled with 2 units in Byz land. We lost most hps attacking one pike in the round before and three Longbows took it down.
Take lux back to 40%. Disconnect Salpeter.

440 AD - Terrible.
Our Knight army was defending fortified in New Chanca and had 7 or 8 hps left. An attacking Elite Knight destroyed it losing only 2 hps, I didn't even think they'd attack it.
On top of that, Teoihuacan flips with a Knight in it who was on the way to get upgraded in New Chanca.
Therefore Coventry riots because it lost connection to Gems.
Prevent other cities from rioting.

I guess, we need to go for lux at 50% again.

We can get two cavs to New Chanca this turn, but none of them then have movement points left, because one missing ship for every turn ship chaining is on the way, but didn't arrive yet.
We have a Cav army in Barb territory but it is too far away to help there.
I relied on having the Knight army when needing to take back Teoihuacan, so the two worst things happened in the same turn. Maybe we should have razed Teoihuacan or at least I could have razed it when recapturing it before, but the flip risk was not that high before.
The war with Byz is also not going as well as I had hoped. I wanted to take at least Caesarea but the Pikes there were very lucky. Lost a few cavs and that other army there.
The barbs are sending steadily units. When razing that city in the north, they lost 1 horse, I hope they have no horses left.

So, although it's only 9 turns, I better stop here. We have some Knights to upgrade now, so if it had happened 1 or 2 turns later it wouldn't be that bad.

Maybe we have to give up New Chanca for some turns. Sorry guys, that my turnset ended that badly, but somehow we didn't have enough units for doing both wars effectively.

 

[ThERat]

please raze ALL barb cities, we don't need the flip nonsense...

tough luck there, but I think a war against Byz at this moment was wrong. We gifted them into to GA and then decide to fight them. This is not monarch but emperor, so we can't just steamroll the AI.

Hope, we will be blessed with more luck now and take Byz out. If they have a 1 tile Island, we better get that city in a peace deal and then attack again.

 

[killercane]

Well we have had some luck with leaders and whatnot so I guess it all evens out in the end. How close are we to ending this Byzantine sojourn and starting on the barbs full force?

 

[Obormot]

I got it and aill see what can be done. But it looks like we don't have any units at all currently!

 

[socralynnek]

We got some but most of them are on our continent.
We got a Cav army on the Barb continent that can at least do a lot of damage...