SGOTM 10 - Wotan

[MacBaldrick]

finish 750 AD turn
Move odd Kgts to barracks towns to be upgraded and form part of Southern naval force.
Start pre-positioning workers for future rail build.
MM cities for either vet Cav (Barracks) or wealth (with Scientist for max research). Some Cities with significant build resources switch to worker / settler.

IBT

Barb Cav attack Army Group North (AGN), lose 1 Cav, kill two barb Cav.
Barb Cav attack on Dover 2, lose 1 Cav, kill 1 barb Cav.
Lots of minor units crossing isthmus from South.
Pirate ship off East Coast

760 AD

MoW destroys Pirate ship.
MoWs bombard units around Cherokee2.
vCav -> vCav = kill (nr Norwich)
vCav -> vCav = kill (East of Army Group Centre - AGC)
* Attack Cherokee with AGC *
vCav -> Msk (1 hp) = dies
vCav (1 hp) -> Msk (2 hp)= retreats
vCav -> Msk (1 hp) = dies
vCav (4 > 3 hp) -> Msk = kill
eCav (5 > 1 hp) -> Msk = kill
eCav -> Msk (1 > 1 hp) = dies !
vCav (4 hp) -> Msk = kill
Raze Cherokee – gain 6 workers
Move AGC south revealing more of mountain / Guard wall

IBT

Production in London sabotaged

770 AD

MM give Steam Power in 4 turns and 0 gpt
* attack Chehalis with AGC *
vCav (1 hp) -> vMsk (2 hp)= retreats
vCav -> vMsk (2 hp) = dies
vCav -> vMsk (3 hp) = dies
vCav -> vMsk (1 hp) = dies
vCav (1 hp) -> vMsk (2 hp)= retreats
vCav (4 > 3 hp) -> vMsk = kill
vCav (4 > 1 hp) -> vMsk = kill
vCav (4 > 3 hp) -> vMsk = kill
vCav (4 > 1 hp) -> vCav = kill
vCav () -> vMsk = kill
Install governor Chehalis as it has Tze Sun (for barracks in cities of Barb continent)
eCav (5 > 3 hp) -> Archer = kill (E of Chehalis)
vCav -> vCav = kill (units of AGN)
vCav -> vCav = kill
vCav -> vCav (1 hp) = dies
vCav -> vCav (1 hp) = dies

IBT

Barbs land Cav on N coast of home Continent !

780 AD

vCav -> vCav = kill (nr Bath)
move southern naval force (2 caravel + MoW) to New Teolhuacan (island)
MoW bombardment cuts isthmus road
Build town west of Norwich.
vCav -> eSpear = kill (SE of Chehalis)
vCav -> Crusader = kill (N of Chehalis)
vCav (4 > 3 hp) -> vCav = kill (N of Chehalis)
vCav (3 > 1 hp) -> eMedInf = kill (SE of Chehalis)
Move Cav & Settlers between continents

Power Failure here – about moves repeated from autosave.

– more to follow

 

[MacBaldrick]

Complete move of Cav & Settlers between continents
End of 780 AD turn

IBT

Barb vCav -> vCav (in Exeter 2) = dies
Barb vCav -> vCav (in NW) = dies
Barb vCav -> vCav (in NW) = dies – workers captured

790 AD

land 6 Cav on Barb Island
destroy more isthmus roads by bombardment
relocated works and move Cav to ports

vCav -> vCav = kill (W of Exeter 2)
* in area south and SE of Chehalis *
eCav -> eWarrior = kill
vCav (1 hp) -> vPike (2 hp) = retreat
vCav -> vPike = kill
vCav -> vSpear = kill
vCav -> vArcher = kill
vCav -> vCav = dies (W of Chehalis)
move 3 vCav up to New Cherokee

IBT

Barb vCav -> vCav = kill (in Cambridge 2)
Barb vCav -> vCav = dies (attacking Cambridge 2)
Barb vCav -> vCav = dies (attacking Chehalis)
Barb vCav -> vCav = kill (in AGN)
Barb vCav -> vCav = dies (attacking AGN)

800 AD

bombard units on isthmus
capture & raze New Teolhuacan (island) without damage
MoW enslaves barb galley in southern waters
build 5 more towns on East coast

vCav -> eCav = dies (W of Cambridge 2)
eCav -> vSpear = dies (S of Carlisle)
vCav -> vSpear = dies (S of Carlisle)
eCav -> vSpear = dies (S of Carlisle)
* attack New Cherokee *
vCav -> vMusk = dies
vCav (4 - 1 hp) -> vMusk = dies
vCav (4 - 1 hp) -> vMusk = dies
* capture & raze New Cherokee *

IBT

Barb vCav -> vCav = kill (in Cambridge 2)
Barb vCav (2 hp) -> vCav = kill (S of Carlisle)
Barb vCav (2 hp) -> vCav = kill (S of Carlisle)
Barb vCav -> vCav = dies (S of Carlisle)

810 AD

vCav -> vCav = dies (S of Chahalis)
vCav (3 hp > elite)-> vCav = kill (S of Carlisle)
vCav (3 hp > elite)-> vCav = kill (S of Carlisle)
3Cav -> vCav = kill (S of Carlisle)

move units up to Cherokee 2
continue moving Cav / settlers towards ports and across sea bridge
load Cav back onto ships from island.

vCav -> Crusader = kill (W of Cambridge 2)

IBT

Pirate -> MoW kill (off southern coast)
Pirate -> MoW kill (off southern coast)
Barb vCav -> vCav = dies (nr Cherokee)
Barb vCav -> vCav = kill (nr Cherokee)
Chahalis flips back to Barbs
* End of Golden Age *

820 AD

Discover Steam Power
Turn off research
MM cities for Tax Collectors rather than scientists giving + 682 gpt
Start railing continents
retake Chahalis – gain 75 gold !
* attack, capture & raze Cherokee 2 * with 4 vCav
* attack, capture and keep Zapotec (for its barracks until settlers arrive) *

IBT

Pirate -> MoW (enslaved)
Barb vCav -> vCav = kill (last of old AGN)
Barb vArcher (1 hp) -> vCav = kill !
Production sabotaged in Tiwanaku

830 AD

continue to rail continent and build towns
eCav-> vPike = kill
* attack, capture & raze Chanca 2 *
vCav -> vMusk = kill
vCav (> elite) -> vMusk = kill
* capture & raze Chanca 2 *
move vCav east of Chinook to create Army Group Centre (AGC)
unload 6 vCav from Caravels nr New Lupaca

IBT

Barb vCav -> vCav = kill (in Cambridge 2)

840 AD

vCav -> barb = kill (in south)

* attack Anasazi *
vCav (4 - 1 hp) -> vPike = kill
vCav -> vSpear = kill
* capture & raze Anazari *
vCav (4 - 3 hp) -> vArcher = kill (in south)
* attack Anasazi 2 *
vCav (> elite) -> vMusk = kill
vCav (4 - 1 hp) -> vMusk = kill
vCav (3 - 1 hp) -> vMusk = kill
rCav (> vet) -> vCav = kill
* capture & raze Anazari 2 *

eCav (4 - 1 hp) -> vMusk = kill (in New Zapor)

MoW (1 hp)-> Frigate = sink

* Attacks around and on Chinook *
vCav (4 - 1 hp) -> eCav = kill
vCav -> vMusk = dies (attacking Chinook)
vCav (4 - 2 hp) -> vMuk = kill (in Chinook)
vCav -> vCav = dies (attacking Chinook)
vCav -> eCav = dies (attacking Chinook)
vCav -> vMusk (2 hp) = dies (attacking Chinook)
vCav -> vMusk (1 hp) = dies (attacking Chinook)
vCav -> vMusk = kill (N of Chinook)
vCav (4 – 2 hp) -> vCav = kill (N of Cambridge 2)

* attack New Lupaca in south *
vCav (4 - 2 hp) -> rMusk = kill
vCav (4 - 1 hp) -> rMusk = retire
vCav ( > elite) -> rMusk = kill
vCav (4 - 1 hp) -> rMusk = kill
* capture & raze Lupaca *
re-embark units into caravels

IBT

Barb vCav -> vCav = kill – razes Cambridge 2 and 6 g ! ooops
VCav captures Chalalis (undefended)
NOTE – major barb rising near Zapotec 2 ???

850 AD

vCav -> vCav = kill (recover Chahalis and 30g ) – net gain !

Save game and upload for next player to continue as its late (1.30 am)

 

[MacBaldrick]

Have considered the tactics for attacking mountain stronghold.

1/ When we attack the mountain chain is must via the corners as the tile adjacent to a corner can be hit by only five Guards units while an edge attach can be hit by nine Guards units. Add 1 if there is a Guards unit in the capital.

2/ Build city just outside range of Guards and grow to (nominal) 12 tile size with settlers and rushed library. Hope it pushes back Barb territory to ease next move.

Might be worth considering three cities in crescent for maximum roll-back.

3/ Use big stack of workers to road / rail up to mountains in one turn.

4/ Feed Cav into corner tile till captured. Defence will be muskets at best but Guards units will knock of hit points before each attack. Five in-range Guards with 3 rounds means 15 hits !

5/ Feed Cav through gap adjacent to Capital (hence need to rail as far forward as possible. With mountain slowing down Cav will have to take round of hits from all remaining guards units - 15 x 3 = 45 hits before attacking capital.
Q - Am I right in thinking Guards units will get second round of hits as we attack (check operation of zone of control) ?

6/ Attack Capital with all we have and trust it is enough.

Several points there need further consideration and refreshing my knowledge but I am at work so no direct access to Civopedia.

 

[Ansar]

Cant look at the save, but do we have any armies in the Barbarian Continent?

 

[Wotan]

1/ Just so. I have rushed a few Cav locally but think for the final push we may get more units for the money (only 8 from local cities) by rushing part-built Cav on home continent and using rail to move them over sea bridge in one move..

I would rather have the 8 cav now to help finish the south. We need plenty of cav to finish the area outside of the stronghold, no reason to wait. Not having them now will probably cost at least a turn or two so rush them now.

2/ I have not played the 850 AD turn (apart from a few tidy up things) so taking Chinook is top of the list..

OK, understand.

4/ He is there because I had to recapture the city (a tidy up) at the start of the move as I failed to take Chinook last turn (missed river giving extra defence which tippped the balance to the defenders hence stack had to be re-positioned) and Cav slipped out of Chinnok and took it..

read your report and understood why this happened.

5/ Was only temporary to heal units until own cities established and connnected so yes - abandon.

Good

@Ansar: No armies ATM.

 

[Wotan]

Have considered the tactics for attacking mountain stronghold.

1/ When we attack the mountain chain is must via the corners as the tile adjacent to a corner can be hit by only five Guards units while an edge attach can be hit by nine Guards units. Add 1 if there is a Guards unit in the capital.

2/ Build city just outside range of Guards and grow to (nominal) 12 tile size with settlers and rushed library. Hope it pushes back Barb territory to ease next move.

Might be worth considering three cities in crescent for maximum roll-back.

3/ Use big stack of workers to road / rail up to mountains in one turn.

4/ Feed Cav into corner tile till captured. Defence will be muskets at best but Guards units will knock of hit points before each attack. Five in-range Guards with 3 rounds means 15 hits !

5/ Feed Cav through gap adjacent to Capital (hence need to rail as far forward as possible. With mountain slowing down Cav will have to take round of hits from all remaining guards units - 15 x 3 = 45 hits before attacking capital.
Q - Am I right in thinking Guards units will get second round of hits as we attack (check operation of zone of control) ?

6/ Attack Capital with all we have and trust it is enough.

Several points there need further consideration and refreshing my knowledge but I am at work so no direct access to Civopedia.

Agree on the "corner" as the best attack route.
But disagree on building a location that close and have it culturally expand. The chance it flips are huge. Better go for a corner with a huge stack of cavs (50-60 of them if not more at that time.)
We can road in enemy territory but not railroad a tile. So unless we go for the city expansion we are limited to road.

SW corner looks like the easiest route (if I remember it correctly?) SE is a hill so limits movement. The northern corners will probably be more difficult to move to and would leave our territory vulnerable with our army far in the north.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Acknowledge flip risk but we can take it right back so get the movement advantage for the remainder of our turn. My idea was to found and grow the city / cities as fast as possible (2/3 turns) just prior to attack. Since we will have lots of spare workers and a few Settlers no doubt it might be worth the try.

Should also consider placing undefended workers at extreme range of Barb Cav to tempt them out. Every one killed in the open is one less to kill on a mountain fortress or in a 12+ capital city which will be twice as hard. Obvously make it near rail so counter-attack unit can quickly rejoin attack.

Agree that a mega stack will be necessary. The big unknown is how many defenders in each mountain tile and how many defenders in the capital - probably most of what the Barbs have.

Rushing local Cav to help clear South is fair comment. Since I didn't have the isthmus roaded / railed yet there was no need to pre-empt Kulko's decision in this matter.

 

[Killer_Klein]

Hey all,

Mac, nice set of turns. Way to keep the English War Machine moving!!

However, I agree with Wotan on the city thing. If we just move in a with a large group we should be able to take out the guards and the capital. It will take to long to rush everything and wait for the culture to build. In those turn we can just push our stack forward. Remember, causalities are no concern at this point!!! hehehe. We are on a timed game. I don't think that any of the other teams are even close, but you never know.

 

[Wotan]

Sorry about the silence but CFC have been having some trouble with a bad banner ad. Got redirected whenever trying to access it. Hopefully it is now fixed. Waiting for Kulko to post plans, he has probably had the same problem.

Re. other teams, I am pretty sure Klarius and Liz have finished the game since they have not posted for a while. Probably beat us by 20 turns or so. With a perfect game without the hickups occationally we would have finished the game ourselves too at this point.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Can I suggest once discussions are complete and Kulko plays his turn and presumably finishes the game, all the team members have a go at completing the game. Bit of mahem for all.

We can them compare the tactics used and finish dates acheived - if they in fact differ at all.

IMHO Team Liz is the only competitor who can beat us - their territory graph indicates they are a turn ahead in the conquest of the Barb continent but can they maintain their performance ?

 

[Wotan]

Sounds like good idea, MacBaldrick.

I do not think territory is a very good indicator of progress in this game, most teams will probably burn everything on the barb continent and the question is to what extent they simply move across it or repopulate it. Klarius have probably elected to allow some AI's to remain on the starting continent and basically just burnt the whole barb. continent.

 

[Kulko]

I was on World Cup Holiday over the Weekend, but thats over now for good. Will post some technical later tonite (much later) and formulate a plan. Will play then tomorrow.

@ Win Condition, my guess is that we got beaten by Liz and klarius. But 3rd place is enough motivation for me to try better next time.

 

[Kulko]

First conquer Chinook and Give up next turn after healing troops
Is there any real danger from the Pirate there? Otherwise I would rather use the MOW to capture it, before starting the bombarding.

Give up Zapotek immediately. Give up Chehalis next turn? keeping it one turn will net us 7 Vet Cavs insteadt of regulars. Is this worth taking the flip risk for one more turn?


Spend moeny on Cavs in Barbaria immediately.

Use Cavs to conquer Southern and northern Hemisphere, before joining the for a final assault on the Stronghold.

Complete Rail network to the south, to alllow fast relocation between the army groups.

Keep the ship chain running for reinforcements.

Take care of the domination limit.


Questions:
How many defenders can I expect in a barb city (South and North) and how many Cavs do I need to defeat these?
What Am I supposed to do twith the caravell full of wounded Cavs in the far north? Wouldn't it be easier to just plant them on a mountain and heal there?

 

[Wotan]

Keeping a location for a single turn after conquest will not help heal units. They need to stay for a full turn and thus be subject to flip. Not worth it in my opinion. Even in own locations flip risk is high so maybe just let units heal where they are when wounded.

Chehalis, keep and reconquer when it flpis. Getting veterans is well worth the trouble of occationally retaking it.

I went in at the beginning of the campaign on barb territory and experienced the normal amouts of units in locations 2-4 depending on size as I remeber it. Mac is the latest to have taken locations so he might have some additional info.

 

[Kulko]

You are right, so I will use my evil Twin to raze everything in sight as soon as I conquer it.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Kulko,

Southern towns will probably only take 2 -3 vet Cav. If you can bombard them first then less hit points to heal.

With the rail network we have, just use own built eastern most towns to heal damaged units - risk of flip highest nearest to cultural centre of barbs, i.e. the capital.

Weak units in carvels can sail south to a coastal town to heal before sailing back north to assist destruction of remaining size 12 city (which I could not take with remnants of AGN. Move southern caravels north to assist if necessary. Finally, with all coastal town razed and no barb ship left (yes / no?), move MoW to ports and abandon to help rush Cav.

Consider using spare shipping to move (full) workers / Settlers onto barb continent to rail North to take out this last city. With a road almost all the way you can just lay down town / rail / town / rail / town in one turn.

 

[Kulko]

Hi Guys,

We did it. I took the stronghold in 940 AD and then took one more turn to find the last settler. When waiting for the Win Sequence the game died on me, probably because some problems wirth my mixed English German PediaIcons.

Anyway I have a save after we killed everybody, so I hope its enough.

No Screenies, because it has been horrible late by now and I just wanted to get through with it.

 

[Kulko]

Turn 850 AD
Sea Battle:
Decided to take the pirate ship first
3 MoW Bomb veteran pirate Ship (2 hits)
rMoW kills vPir (1 HP)

Battle for New Zapotec:
eCav dies vs rMus (1HP)
vCav kills rMus (2HP+promo)
eCav(4) kills rMus(1) cleanly

New Zapotec falls.

Battle for Chinook
vCav vs eMus retreats (-1hp)
vCav vs vMus retreats (-2hp)
vCav vs eMus(4) retreats (-1hp)
vCav vs eMus(3) kills (-1hp)
vCav vs vMus(2) kills cleanly

Chinook is destroyed

Battle for New Chanca
vCav vs rMus kills (-3hp)
vCav vs rMus kills (-3hp + Promo)

New Chanca falls.

IBT
Countertattacks kill 3 exposed Wounded Cavs.

Turn 860 AD

Battle for Olmec
vCav vs rMus Kills (-1hp + promo)
vCav vs rMus Kills (-1hp + promo)
vCav vs rMus dies (-2hp + promo)
vCav vs vCav kills (-2hp)
vCav vs vMus(2) kills (-1hp)
rCav vs vCav(2)

Olmec falls 2 locations remain in the north.

I need to reorganize the South, troops are too dispersed there, and the missing railroad, makes it hard to move units there.

IBT:
Some counterattacks, costing 2 Cav

Turn 870 AD
1 City north and 2 Cities South taken without losses.

Turn 880 AD
nothing really happened.

Turn 890 AD
have 34 Cavs for the fortress
take one more town in the South.

Turn 900 AD
South is conquered
Only Stronghold and Lupaca remain.
It need 3 turns to get Units against Lupaca, but I have 50 Units on the Stronghold by now.
I think I will wait the few turns, hoping it doesN't make a difference.

Turn 930 AD
6 eCav are not enough to conquer Lupaca in one go. But reinforcements can be brought next turn from the Army Group which is attacking the Stronghold.
I have choosen the NE corber, since it is easy reachable, has plain access to the Stronghold and can also reinforce the attack on Lupaca.

I defeat the Fortress using about 15 Cav. 60 more are waiting to attack the stronghold next turn.

Turn 940 AD
I take the Stronghold (about 15 losses, 2 Guns and 5 other defenders killed)
I take Lupaca (5 more losses)

The game does not end.

IBT:
Barb refounds city quite near to the stronghold.

Turn 950 AD
I have bearly enough units in reach to take it, so game is over in 950 AD

 

[Kulko]

I have found no special scenario what I should do with the final save, So I will just upload the one, with no Barbs left, shortly before the game aknowledges our victory.

The uploaded File is registered as incomplete. Hope that is now a problem. If I did something rong I suggets somebody else just downloads the save and plays the final victory sequence.

 

[Wotan]

OK I will seee if I can sort it out.

BTW, we are free to browse the other team threads now.

Well done team. I think we played a great game, rookie team and all.



Save: I think it is the correct save we uploaded. As soon as the barbs are gone was the goal. We just happened to have taken out all opposition but the save is the correct one, just after barbs are gone.