SGOTM 10 - Wotan

[Wotan]

ummm...i've been here, so why am I on autoskip?

Well... You actually asked to sit this out yourself:

I got to go out of country. immigration reasons, but I managed to play 9 turns. I will have internet access , but no civ.

And your comment after last turn set of MacBaldricks, you yourself talked about what Kulko was up for. So I cannot see how I have misinterpreted your desire to just follow the game from the sideline?

Besides a lot has happened since you last played a set of turns. We are a couple of turnsets from finishing this game so I think it will be a bit difficult for you to get on track again as to what actually happens in the game. And I remember the last turn set you played You had some serious problems keeping up with what had been discussed and left quite a mess after your turns. I guess the easiest for all of us would be if you follow the game from the sideline at this stage.

 

[Wotan]

@Killer: I think you did a great job! The only question I have is the use of Settlers but it is a minor one. Would have liked the southern trail to have been started since you took out a substantial chunk of barb cities there.

Thoughts.
Centre army, should be able to take out both Cherokee and Centralis next turn. Depending on losses could possible spearhead the sweep NW from there and finally crush everything but the stronghold inside the ring? of Barb Cannons and forts.
Northern army, probably need a few reinforcements to make it south from current position.
Southern army?, have merged with centre I guess? One objective for Mac is to put it in motion once again. We also need a small landing force at the southern tip of barb lands. There is at least one island with a town on it that need attention. Maybe a landing in the deep south with 8-10 Cavs could shake them up a bit? And another 20 running south conquering the mainland at the same time. I think we have a lot to gain from not finishing the north before heading south. The stronghold will probably be a formidable target, so lets move around it while heading south with a substantail force. We will also be able to settle and rail the south without too much problems to make force transfers easy.

Research: We should be able to research rails in 4 turns so that would suggest rail in 6 turns from now. So make sure all workers are piled nicely together on the old continent in 6 turns time. any jobs needing more than 4 turns, scrap or reinforce to rush them. Then rush a rail network on te old continent to connect all corners so we can do with just a small force of cavs to cover the whole continent.

On barb continent, remember that barbs can use the rail too in neutral territory so be a bit cautious about where to rail. North to south is a yes but be a bit careful with tiles leading up to the mountains in the centre.

Settlers: We have a pile of them on barb continent. Several objectives for these. Settle isthmus to make it a good strongoint and a good jumpoff point for the southern campaign. I am pretty sure the final battle will be an assault on the central mountains with barb cannons so we want to be able to quicly run the southern cavs north in time for this. By settling southwards and railing this area we will be quick in shifting forces.

Also interesting for settlers is to claim luxuries on the barb continent.

Mac: Go get them!

 

[Kulko]

Hmm I must defend Wotan, You have posted that you so many real life troubles that you couldn't find the time to play. But since you never really stopped posting, I was also under the impression, that you still spend some time as an active lurker with the team, and will tell us that you rejoin as soon as you have time for the game again.

But I am sure we have no probs reintegrating you into the rooster.

 

[Ansar]

i could have sworn I had said that I had come back...but it seems I never did...sorry guys.

 

[MacBaldrick]

I have it.

Still reviewing the situation but initial thoughts -

Establish blockading town in ismuth and rail up / down coast to Norwich. We can establish a city 9 tiles directly west of Birmingham - same sea distance as Norwich. If we use our Settlers to create a chain of towns that will speed up rail on S of Northern half of Barb continent.

Northern Army stack razes West coast barb cities.

Southern stack does same for Southern land mass.

Question - Do wish to destroy all other Barb cities before final assault on barb Stonghold? IMHO it will take all we can throw at it in a grand war of attrition so destroying everying else means 100 % focus on the tough nut. This will also reduce barb research and production to minimum.

How active have the Barb cavalry been ? If we push workers out into the open (at max cavalry range) will they try to snap them up ? If so we can counter attach and wear down their attack forces as bombardment only takes units down to 1 hp so they need units to deliver the coup-de-grasse (posh French for killer blow).

After Steam Power I suggest Electricity and Replaceable Part for Infantry and Artillery - hopefully it will be all before then but if not we may need the arty. We can't bomard the Guards units directly but we can destroy their fortifications and defending units and any roads in front of them which they might use for counter-attacks after bombarding our units. For the future.

Will post further with plan of campaign before starting so comments / suggestions please.

 

[MacBaldrick]

While understand city production of Cavalry, some MoW and gold in the conquered territories - what is strategy behind continued Settler production in such town / cities ?

Although production rates may make what they produce irrelevant, I wold rather use non-barracks towns to produce cannon that more settlers unless ther is a purpose for them. We should have enought to cover N landmass with towns linked by rail making it our land not neutral. The South I would just lay waste to.

I presume our shipping is heading back to home continent to collect next batch of Cav / Settlers.

 

[Wotan]

Most of what you say is good but I have a few objections.
1. Research after Steam Power is not a good idea. We are 20 turns or so from finishing this game. Any benefits from those techs are non existant. Better put research at 0% and convert all scientists to taxmen. We would generate enough gold each turn to buy 3 CAvs with a single shield built (79 times 4 gold each = 316 gold each) So 6 or 7 towns with barracks on barb continent would add a healthy number of Cavs each turn with half finishing cavs every turn and the other half or so generating the initial shield for the next turns rush.

2. Stop any builds but Cavalry now. MoWs or arty will not be in time to see any action worth spending production on. Remember 20 turns or so to go!

3. Ship chain!!! do not send ships alkl the way back and forth. load ships in port, move ship to another ship, activate units and load on new ship, move new ship to port and unload, move cavs towards frontlines. (sometimes we need to ship chain with 2 or three reloads but probably not in this game. When rail is in place a newly built cav on our main continent will be able to attack a barb location the same turn!

4. Remember to address the problem with barb island(s) in the deep south. You need to set up a ship chain towards that area. Probably no need to have it with higher than one caravels capacity. 3 reinforcing Cavs per turn should be enough.

5. Reminder about worker actions. Steam Power is 6 turns away. Make sure no workers are on any activities after turn 4 of your turn set. Getting the rail net up is a priority well above any other types of actions on the main continent. Also try to put them in as few stacks as possible to make railing easier.

EDIT: Your north and south army references are they what I called north and centre? I do not see nany southern army after Killers turns? Just so we talk about the same things. My recference to a southern army was to build a new such force using a few units from army group centre and add reinforcements. Centre swings NW. Current AG North is a bit weak to carry the battle into barb territory, only half a dozen or so remaing. These need reinforcements before moving on into barb territory.

 

[MacBaldrick]

1/ Yes I see the logic in that - go for gold which presumably applies to item 2 - switch to either Cav build or gold.

3/ To set up this ship chain, do I stack ships in both ports and at point(s) four tiles from ports shuttling them between the intermediate point where you transfer the troops ? Read about ship chains but never used on in anger - will try it on another old GOTM game I am playing first.

4/ I take it the barb island problem one of them occupying all the tiles hence we cannot land to attack - Yes.

5/ What's the optimum worker stack for railing in two or one turns and will the English Worker / 'Guest' worker status make a difference. At this stage I always rail the thinnest network possible joining up towns/cities hence my comments of building cities on barb continent two tiles apart (1 tile to rail), rush barracks and build / rush Cav.

Wil try to post plan tommorrow - gives other a chance to comment too.

 

[Killer_Klein]

Another thing to consider, that Wotan pointed out before is that we are getting close to the Domination victory condition. We don't want to reach that goal.

The Cav has been really active. This is one of the reasons that I haven't built any cities on the Barb continent because I didn't want to spare the resources to protect them. By the time we get to the point where we are starting to rail the front should be far enough away from where we are building so we don't have to spare too many Cavs for defending the workers.

 

[Wotan]

3/ To set up this ship chain, do I stack ships in both ports and at point(s) four tiles from ports shuttling them between the intermediate point where you transfer the troops ? Read about ship chains but never used on in anger - will try it on another old GOTM game I am playing first..

I think you have the correct understanding of ship chaining. Quick guide:
First ship in chain start in port of embarkation, load it with units.
Move ship to a tile where another ship is waiting.
Activate units in first ship.
Load then into the next ship. If several ships occupy the same tile the ship at the end of the list has been in the tile the longest. If only two ships are there, the first unit being reloaded automatically goes to the new ship if the offloading ship is full. After that it is simply a question of picking the correct ship in the list of choices, remember that a ship just arriving in a tile to pass units on to another ship is at the top of the list so chose the right ship to load the remaining units in.
Move new ship towards port of debarkation, if it arrives unload units and move them towards frontlines. If needed reload into yet another ship in the chain of ships.

4/ I take it the barb island problem one of them occupying all the tiles hence we cannot land to attack - Yes..

?. Haven't looked that close on the map. Is the island covered with units so no landing is possible? If so we are in for a big problem. The island is not a one tiler so eventually one coastal tile should become available for us to land in. AI tend to move units around a lot. I could only see one island off the coast of Barb continent with a town on it. Maybe there is more under the fog? Just make sure you send cavs there to deal with the problem. Set up a ship chain for easy reinforcements and to eventually open up a southern front working northwards on the barb mainland.

5/ What's the optimum worker stack for railing in two or one turns and will the English Worker / 'Guest' worker status make a difference. At this stage I always rail the thinnest network possible joining up towns/cities hence my comments of building cities on barb continent two tiles apart (1 tile to rail), rush barracks and build / rush Cav.

Workers are as always differentiated into domestic and slaves. 6 domestic worker actions needed to rail a roaded tile, or 12 slave actions. So set the up in stacks of 6 or 12 or any combination making 6 full actions. Also moving along roads makes it easy to use fractions over turn changes since you only continue to build the next turn with others and then move along the intended route. Agree on only focusing on a network to connect all cities on the old continent. Reason for connecting is two fold. To allow quick reinforcements and to allow quick response to barb landings. Thus we only need a small stack of cavs to cover the whole continent.

 

[Kulko]

I finally spend some time with the save and here are my thoughts about the military campaign:
Right now we have 3 stacks:
Army Group North ca. 6 Division partially wounded

Army Group Centre ca. 12 Divisions battle ready

Reserve Army Group ca 6 Divisions in the ports behind AG Centre for healing.

My suggestion would be to take this healing units to beaf up the northern Army. That way we can start sending the ready Stack southwards immediately, which is the mots important thing from my point of view as it will take the longest time to finish. We can handle the north then by sending most of our reinforcements there.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Establish ship chain between continents.
Pre-position workers to rail home continent.
Build chain of towns / road > rail down east coast through peninsular to Southern land mass.
Product focussed on Cav (where we have barracks) or gold on home continent.
Production focused on Barracks / Cav on enemy continent.
WAR
first wave of Cav from home to reinforce Army Group North who take out Western cities (may be slow due to terrain and size 10 / 11 cities).
Army Group Centre take out Cherokee and Chehalis and then splits to take out New Cherokee (weak size 5 town) then act as blocking defence while we rail / populate east coast plus reinforce new Army Group South (AGS) which is made up of second wave of Cav from home. Army Group South takes Cherokee 2, secures ismuth with town / rail and marches South to clear southern lands.
Third wave of Cav send south in ships to take island and then join AGS to clear South. This will probably run over into next turn but by end barbs will have only a few cities in central core - no coastal cities so no defence needed on home continent. In fact no defence needed anyway as AI is crap at seabourne assault and we can aways rush some Cav if they appear - especially once we have rail.

Final assault by all forces at one point in mountain wall defence will be well beyond this turn. Bit of scouting to confirm topology of Barb Fortress might be in order if possible.

 

[Wotan]

Looks like a cunning plan, MacBaldrick! Would leave just the scraps for Kulko to tidy up I hope.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Just to keep you in touch.

Played two turns last night and destroyed Cherokke and captured Chehalis (has Sun Tzu's so vet Cav can be rushed locally - need to watch for flip). Started building towns down east coast. Researching Steam Power in 4.

However, have had two total power failures tonight (Thunderstorms around) so on on third restart from 780 AD Autosave. However, can repeat moves from notes easily. PS Do I need to inform moderator ?

 

[AlanH]

However, have had two total power failures tonight (Thunderstorms around) so on on third restart from 780 AD Autosave. However, can repeat moves from notes easily. PS Do I need to inform moderator ?

lurker's comment: You already have. Reading's getting it today, then ,huh? Couldn't happen to a nicer spot

 

[MacBaldrick]

Hi guys,

Have reached the start of 850 AD at 1.30 pm so saved game - plenty of warfare left.

Workers are railing the home continent like no tomorrow. Significant rail network in SE of Barb continent.

small Army in two caravels off west cost picking off cities (safer that way as I lost the orignal army bit by bit).
Army group centre poised to take Chinook (bombard first).
Southern units need to re-grouped before sweeping these minor cities off the map. NB was warned of major Barb rising near southern town ?

Full report to follow tommorow.

I have enclosed the screen capture

 

[Kulko]

I have enclosed the screen capture

Where?

Will look at the game tonite.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Finally got the server to upload the file here.

I'll take my notes to work and might find time to post them before tonight.

Best of Luck with the war Kulko.

 

[Wotan]

Looks good MacBaldrick. I think the next turn set is the last in this game. Should be over in 10 turns. If there is a need to play a couple of turns more I suggest Kulko does that and finish this game in his session. But my guess is 6-8 turns, at least from a quick glance.

A few bits and pieces:
1. 2600 gold! That is 8 cavalry rushed from 1 shield builds. We have plenty of location on Barb continent to do this in. Why have you not rushed 2 per turn? So first thing for Kulko to do is to rush cavs. And keep doing so each turn.
2. You stopped playing before attack on Chinook and probably the town NW of it. The stack is big enough to deal with both I think. And the northern most town on the southern front should be possible to have a go at.
3. Worker priority must be rail to the south for fast relocation in time for big assault on stronghold. And to get reinforcements to the final push in the south. The western coast in a secondary objective right now. With the south clean we will have every unit in the north abnyway.
4. Do not keep cavalry in flip risk towns, like the town with Sun Tzu's.
5. Abandon the barb town in the extreme south it is too much of a flip risk!

 

[MacBaldrick]

Just some background which expains the current situation -
1/ Just so. I have rushed a few Cav locally but think for the final push we may get more units for the money (only 8 from local cities) by rushing part-built Cav on home continent and using rail to move them over sea bridge in one move.
2/ I have not played the 850 AD turn (apart from a few tidy up things) so taking Chinook is top of the list.
3/ Agreed.
4/ He is there because I had to recapture the city (a tidy up) at the start of the move as I failed to take Chinook last turn (missed river giving extra defence which tippped the balance to the defenders hence stack had to be re-positioned) and Cav slipped out of Chinnok and took it.
5/ Was only temporary to heal units until own cities established and connnected so yes - abandon.