Thanks for trying to keep things up-to-date.
One bit of feedback is that I find it confusing to read your message #3 when you only update part that message. For example, Irgy is still listed as being "UP," which I think that you have decided is now not the case.
NP, i just thought that rounded numbers are easier to remember, but we can adjust it.
To be honest, giving me the saved game just before the UN is to be completed doesn't leave me a lot of room for improving our Diplo relations. Either we've won and the game is trivially over, or we'll need to increase the Diplo relations with one or more AIs. and we will lose the first Diplo Victory vote (...)
Can we decide this once we'll see in which turn we can actually complete the UN? Let's keep that schedule, then we can update it when we got it clear.
Sure, it makes sense, but if you give to the UP player the right inputs it would be like you're playing. Our strategist will be our strategist even from the backlines.
Now can we decide which schedule to adopt? the first or the second?
NP, i just thought that rounded numbers are easier to remember, but we can adjust it...
Now can we decide which schedule to adopt? the first or the second?
My suggestion? Have a mix of the two schedules and call it Schedule #3.
Schedule 1 doesn't take into account the fact that Mitchum can't even play until Monday. Schedule 2 has a very dubious (in my opinion) approach of playing up until the UN is almost built--unlike other Wonders, it's not about "knowing" that we will get it, but planning the Diplo situation well in advance of learning Mass Media. Finally, neither schedule currently goes with the "end in a turn multiple of XX2," so that we will have two chances (from 2 different players) to remember to redo the Wheat deal with Zara every second time that we need to redo that deal. Schedule 3 tries to combine the best out of all of these points.
Schedule #3:
Mitchum : t.192-212 save 07/19
Irgy: t.212-232 save 07/24
Blubmuz: t.232-252 save 07/29
Unclethrill : t.252-272 save 08/03
to decide: t.272-292 save 08/08
to decide: t.292-312 save 08/13
Dhoomstriker: t.312-end (330?) save 08/18
The remaning days can be used as "buffer days."
Examples of when we might need to use a buffer day:
1. Someone's internet isn't working on the day that they need to upload the saved game. Buffer time can be used to push back the schedule for unforeseen real-life circumstances and events.
2. A serious disconnect exists between what the team members have suggested and what the UP player has written for their PPP. Rather than rushing play when the UP player is missing crucial info, play will be delayed. If the UP player still has a major disconnect, their turnset may get shortened or they may have to swap with someone else who has a later turnset. Yes, doing either of those things will put more pressure on the rest of the team, but I believe that it will be less pressure than a player playing an unfocused turnset that doesn't match with the stated goals of the rest of the team, which would very easily lead to an even LONGER amount of time required, due to extending the game's Victory Date.
3. We come up with a "power move" idea at the last minute and want an extra day to test it against our planned approach.
An example of a "power move" might be to pre-build our Palace in Riverdale so that we can get the Bureaucracy bonus on our Hammers there, then either have Zara capture the City (and have our Palace auto-moved) or else have a second Palace pre-built that can be completed on the same turn that we complete the UN, say, back in Delhi. Now, I do not think that we will need to use THIS PARTICULAR strategy; I am just coming up with an example to define what a "power move" might be--a really neat way of potentially speeding up our Victory Date using some sort of an innovative approach.
With these buffer days avaiable, we don't have to rush if we are not ready and have a good reason for not being ready (such as a heavy debate going on in the thread), but we will also keep the time pressure on people to finish their PPPs and their turnsets at a reasonable pace.
We should aim to have a PPP posted no later than 24 hours before the submission due date and preferably earlier; if that time is not met, then we may have to swap someone else to play the turnset, preferably someone who is familiar with what is going on in the game at the time (perhaps even the previous UP player if they are the only player who is aware of what's going on with the game).
Basically, if you slack off and don't post your PPP with enough time or if you post a poor PPP and aren't willing to update it, you may lose your turnset due to demonstrating a lack of commitment to the team. If you want to be tough on the schedule, you need to have commitment from the players, and those that are not willing to show commitment aren't really showing respect for their teammates. This rule applies to me, too, so if we agree to play by this aggressive schedule, we need to agree to hold each other accountable with solid effort being invested into our PPPs. That means helping each other out in flushing out the info needed for the PPPs, such as what BLubz did with running the Whale City test. Sound reasonable?
OK, i updated my #3 with your proposed schedule, i think it can work.
things to decide before next TS starts:
- whale city (if and when if yes)
- when to build the army for the fur city
- defenders for our cities: i think a LBow in every city and a couple of axes/spears; we can let Goldfish with the warrior, it will be lost in any case if anyone attacks it.
In my testing, I was able to comlete the UN in 2 turns. Here is how I did it:
Turn -1:
Riverdale needs a forge
Riverdale needs to be at pop 16 (each pop gives +30 hammers from the GE). We can farm over the three cottages if we need the extra food to help us get there in time.
We need enough hammers invested into something such that we can pop whip it for 1 pop
We should have been running OR and Slavery such that when the UN is completed we can revolt to the civics needed to keep everyone happy (Theocracy anyone?)
We need a GE sitting in Riverdale (or a few steps outside if were worried about losing the city to a freak war.
The 3 forests west of Riverdale to be 1 chop away from completion
Turn 0:
Learn Mass Media
Switch from building the one-pop whip item to the United Nations
Use our Great Engineer to hurry production providing 1230 hammers
Chop the three forests and hire an engineer and a few citizens
Turn 1:
Whip the UN for 6 pops, bringing us down to 10
Whip an Explorer for 2 pops, bringing us down to 8 pops; a multiple of 4
Whip an Airship for 4 pops, bringing us down to 4 pops
Whip a Spy for 2 pops, bringing us down to 2 pops
Whip the XXX for 1 pop, bringing us down to 1 pop
Move the UN to the top of the build queue
Turn 2:
UN Completed
Riverdale down to 1 pop
Gift Riverdale to Zara
Now, if we don't get 3 forest chops into the UN (which would happen if we build Whales) or if we don't get Riverdale to 16 pops (bigger deal), then I'll have to go back and re-run my testing.
Some things we could do include:
Have all farms/cottages within one turn of being work shops. On T0, have enough workers on hand to complete the work shops and complete the chops in 1 turn (~11 workers)
Build a Palace in Riverdale as Dhoomstriker suggested, getting the Bureaucracy bonus in Riverdale on the chops and whip.
Grow Riverdale larger than 16
Some of our forests are under cultural pressure and we could lose them late in the game, so I don't want to count on having them. I would prefer to chop them while they are ours, possibly into a University such that Riverdale can whip it for 2 pops rather than 3 (I don't want to overwhip Riverdale because that city needs to grow!!). Plus, we'll need a farm on the forest tile N+NW of Riverdale to help us grow our city to 16 pops.
With all of that said, I think we can afford to build Whales, but we'll have to jump through a few hoops to get the UN completed in 2 turns. I have not included a settler in my current plans. I suggest we do so in the next turnset unless the team thinks I should prioritize a settler over what I'm currently planning to build, which you'll see in my PPP later today.
@Dhoomstriker - What is the status of the test game? I can't finalize anything until I have it. Don't worry about having the gold or map perfect. I just want the food, hammers and worker actions correct so that I can quickly test the timing of my actions.
- when to build the army for the fur city
- defenders for our cities: i think a LBow in every city and a couple of axes/spears; we can let Goldfish with the warrior, it will be lost in any case if anyone attacks it.
I'm with Dhoomstriker on this. Let's focus on setting up for our University whips now. Then, we can use our overflow hammers to start building an army under Police State, Theocracy and Vassalage.
On that note, we should probably Fortify the first Great Engineer that we get inside of Delhi. If the player who generates our first Great Engineer likes to click on the unit icons (I sometimes do, I sometimes use hotkeys), I suggest that in this case you press the "f" key, in order to fortify this unit, so that a mis-click on the wrong icon doesn't settle him or start a Golden Age by accident.
Tree-hugging! At least, until later...
Some of our forests are under cultural pressure and we could lose them late in the game, so I don't want to count on having them. I would prefer to chop them while they are ours, possibly into a University such that Riverdale can whip it for 2 pops rather than 3 (I don't want to overwhip Riverdale because that city needs to grow!!).
Well, let's think about it. One Forest chop within the fat cross = 45 Hammers.
2 extra population points = the ability to whip 1 population point for 30 Hammers. Thus, we get 15 Hammers per population point (assuming that we can get up to a multiple of 2 population points, of course), so 3 population points = 45 Hammers.
So, if we can save 2 Forests in the big fat cross, then we can be 6 populatoin points smaller.
Therefore, I think that it WILL be worth not converting the GRiv For into a Farm. I especially think that we should keep the Tundra For around.
We're shortly going to start to see our whipped Cultural buildings doubling in Cultural output. Zara's buildings, on the other hand, such as Stonehenge, have already doubled. So, our rate of increase culturally will be beating his rate of increase over the next couple of turnsets. Further, with a University and Christian Monastary, we'll really be putting the pressure back on him--while I doubt at this stage that we'll get any of his Flood Plains squares, I think that our two big fat cross Forest squares are going to be securely ours.
Based on the number of population points that we'd need to equal one Forest: 3 population points, rounding up to the next even multiple of 2 population points in the City, I think that it's worth it to save these Forests until the end.
The Test Save Game is being worked on
@Dhoomstriker - What is the status of the test game? I can't finalize anything until I have it. Don't worry about having the gold or map perfect. I just want the food, hammers and worker actions correct so that I can quickly test the timing of my actions.
When will probably depend more upon when we can afford to fit a Settler into the build queue than anything else. With us growing our Cities for Universities and whipping other Cities to spread Buddhism, a Settler may not fit in a build queue anywhere until we can get a City grown to Size 6.
My vote is still to leverage the overflow Hammers from whipping the Universities into Military units.
- defenders for our cities: i think a LBow in every city and a couple of axes/spears; we can let Goldfish with the warrior, it will be lost in any case if anyone attacks it.
Hmmm... I can understand defenders for the two Cities that border Zara. I can see light defense for our eastern and northern islands (Ivory Towers and Sugar Daddy). I can even see us maybe having a couple of units in our western Cities. Our middle Cities can afford to be lightly defended, though.
Also, do not forget that Goldfish is to act as our Trojan Horse. If Justinian attacks us, it will be to our ADVANTAGE to allow him to capture Goldfish, as long as we have spread Confucianism there. If he captures it, we can use the Apostolic Palace to vote for an end to the war, then we can vote to have our City given back to us.
We should still do our best to send a Confucian Missionary to one of Justinian's Cities, since that way, if he attacks Zara, we can also stop the war. However, since we're not certain if he'll accept it due to being in Theocracy, that's the backup plan, while the primary plan is to put Confucianism in Goldfish and to allow that City to be captured if Justinian goes to war with us.
Therefore, there's not much point in heavily garrisoning a City that we plan to give up in war. As long as we still have 4 Warriors elsewhere, we can afford to lose the one that's defending Goldfish (although we can also run him away to the east and try to hide him somewhere in Saladin's lands, should a war erupt).
Sure, if we manage to have a ton of extra units, we can always put some in Goldfish, but I would treat defending that City as being a low priority... either Toku or Justinian can easily send a stack of 20 units since it's a City on their home continent, and we'll just lose whatever garrison we put in that City, no matter how many units we put there. They can't do the same in an inter-continental attack (sending 20 units), so we're best off locating our primarily military units on our home continent, shoring up our defenses there to withstand any landed assaults of troops, while we wait for the Apostolic Palace vote to come up.
Well, let's think about it. One Forest chop within the fat cross = 45 Hammers.
2 extra population points = the ability to whip 1 population point for 30 Hammers. Thus, we get 15 Hammers per population point (assuming that we can get up to a multiple of 2 population points, of course), so 3 population points = 45 Hammers.
So, if we can save 2 Forests in the big fat cross, then we can be 6 populatoin points smaller.
Therefore, I think that it WILL be worth not converting the GRiv For into a Farm. I especially think that we should keep the Tundra For around.
We're shortly going to start to see our whipped Cultural buildings doubling in Cultural output. Zara's buildings, on the other hand, such as Stonehenge, have already doubled. So, our rate of increase culturally will be beating his rate of increase over the next couple of turnsets. Further, with a University and Christian Monastary, we'll really be putting the pressure back on him--while I doubt at this stage that we'll get any of his Flood Plains squares, I think that our two big fat cross Forest squares are going to be securely ours.
Based on the number of population points that we'd need to equal one Forest: 3 population points, rounding up to the next even multiple of 2 population points in the City, I think that it's worth it to save these Forests until the end.
You missed one important point. Each population point gives the GE 30 extra hammers when he rush builds the UN. So, those 3 population points are equal to an additional 90 hammers above what you calculated!!!
1 Forest = 45 base hammers (56 with forge)
2 Pops = 60 hammers (from GE) + 30 hammers (from whip - 37 with forge) = 90 hammers (97 hammers with forge)
UN:
I don't hink that one single turn (i.e., build in 2 or 3) is a big deal, compared to the benefit to the extra pop, an happiness resource we otherwise lack and 2 silver we can trade (for other resources or gpt).
So, i'm all for building Whales ASAP.
Your plan for the UN is very aggressive, but i think we must focus on reaching the tech sooner than saving 1 turn in the build.
Universities/Military:
Provided we build some defensive unit ASAP, I'm fine with your idea to use the overflow from Unis in the Army for the Fur City.
Circumnavigation:
Have you seen my post? we should be some 3-4 tiles away from it and this will save a good number of turns of travel for our fleet.
Nonetheless, i think they must be escorted by a caravel or a trireme at least.
UN:
I don't hink that one single turn (i.e., build in 2 or 3) is a big deal, compared to the benefit to the extra pop, an happiness resource we otherwise lack and 2 silver we can trade (for other resources or gpt).
So, i'm all for building Whales ASAP.
Your plan for the UN is very aggressive, but i think we must focus on reaching the tech sooner than saving 1 turn in the build.
With so many happiness resources and more to come and countless cheap temples to build, I don't think happiness is going to be our limiting factor. No where in my plan did I suggest that we slowly research MM so that we can grow Riverdale and complete the UN in 2 turns. We should do what we can to optimize every aspect of this game, including time to build UN, tech pace, capturing the Fur, etc. If we can squeeze a turn or three out of the time to build the UN, why not do it???
In any event, I think we can build Whales AND complete the UN in 2 turns. Once you see my build plans, if you see a place to squeeze in a settler, let me know. Otherwise, it will have to wait until the next turnset.
I will try to fit in a couple of long bows into my build queues for protection but major buildup for more protection and an army to take the fur will have to happen in the next turnset once we have our universities completed.
Yes, I saw your post. I will try to get the circumnavigation bonus on the first or second turn of my turnset if possible. I always thought that the unfogged area had to touch. Are you saying that we'll get the bonus just by sailing 3-4 squares west with our work boat, even if our unfogged areas don't "touch"?
Yes, I saw your post. I will try to get the circumnavigation bonus on the first or second turn of my turnset if possible. I always thought that the unfogged area had to touch. Are you saying that we'll get the bonus just by sailing 3-4 squares west with our work boat, even if our unfogged areas don't "touch"?
To have the bonus, the unfogged areas do NOT need to touch. You acquire it once you can see all the 360°. In this case, you can see 171° E and the WB will unfog about the same longitude. It doesn't matter if the tiles are (like in our case) in the opposite sides of the World as latitude.
Summary of the Current Situation Diplomatic
Tokugawa’s Worst Enemy is still Zara
Isabella and Mehmed are each other’s worst enemy (assumed)
No one else has a Worst Enemy
Saladin is Friendly towards Toku and Justinian
Zara is Friendly towards us
Justinian is Friendly towards Toku and Saladin
No one else is Friendly towards anyone else at the moment
Tokugawa has not met Isabella yet.
Resource Trading
Every AI wants Silver from us, but we currently need that Happiness for Delhi when we are running Police State instead of Representation. Since it appears that we are the only Civ with Silver, it may make sense for us to settle Whales such that we have a monopoly on this resource.
No Resources are currently being offered to us on the trading table.
Required Happiness Resources
Of the 4 resources we need, we only have access to Ivory (thanks to settling on the resource).
No AI has Dye or Silk listed as tradable resources.
Isabella has 3 visible dyes and it looks like Mehmed has another one. Isabella does not know Calendar yet, so can’t hook hers up. We have not met Mehmed yet.
A barb city near Mehmed has Silk but either Mehmed or Isabella will probably beat us to capturing that City, as they both have standing armies from being at war for so long. However, if their war carries on, they may be distracted and we could get it…
The barbs have the only source of Fur, as we’ve been told.
It looks like the land masses containing Civs form a U shape. It does not appear that there are any AI in the middle of this U (i.e. north of us). So it is also likely that there is some un-claimed, barb-infested land to the north that could also contain the resources we need. This land (if it exists) could also help us increase our population if we are the first to claim/settle it.
Tech Trading
Toku knows Metal Casting and Horseback Riding, but he will not trade either to us because “He doesn’t like us enough!”
We have a monopoly on Code of Laws, Literature, Paper and Philosophy. Saladin will likely learn Code of Laws within a turn or two, as he just offered 40 Gold out of a higher value of Gold for that tech at the start of T192.
Justinian and Sal both know Civil Service.
Civics + Religion
We are currently running Police State, Bureaucracy, Slavery, Decentalization, and Organized Religion and can switch civics immediately.
We are currently running Confucianism and can switch religions immediately
Research
Our Science Rate is currently at 100% at -119 gold/turn with 263 gold in the bank
We are researching Education (18 turns at 100%)
Confucianism
We have Confucianism in all but 5 cities (Goldfish, Crabs, Risaia, Sugar Daddy and Mystic). I will attempt to spread Confucianism to these cities in the order they are listed.
High-level Build Plans and Citizen Allocation
Cities marked with an * will be our six targeted University cities, which will need a Library and 6 pops by the time we learn Education.
*Delhi:
Parthenon (chop GFor W+W of Delhi and PFor NE+NE+E of Delhi) -> University of Sankore
Currently 11 pops and +7F working 2 corn, copper, 2 farms, 2 cottages and 4 mines. As Delhi grows, new citizens will become scientists, adding to the 2 free scientists from the Great Library.
*Silverado:
Moai Statues (2 chops) -> Library
Currently 3 pops and +3F working the silver, deer and lake. As it grows, new citizens will work the remaining 3 lake tiles.
*Riverdale:
Christian Monastery (no whipping this turnset)
Currently 3 pops and +5F working 3 farms. As it grows, new citizens will work the 3 cottages and then the mine. I will check this city every turn and switch to working the cow if/when we get it. Zara currently holds this tile at 51% vs. 48%.
*Bedrock:
Library -> Confucian Missionary
Currently 3 pops and +4F working horse and 2 FP cottages. As it grows, new citizens will work the marble (taken back from Risaia) and GRiv farms as they are built. It can steal the FP cottage from Risaia when needed.
Wheaties:
Apostolic Palace (1 chop, with Confucian Missionaries and/or a Buddhist Temple being whipped into it using overflow Hammers). Be sure we are running Confucianism when the AP is completed.
Currently at 3 pops and +7F working wheat, cow and oasis. As it grows, new citizens will work the mines.
*Grt Person Farm:
Confucian Monastery (just whipped) -> National Epic (with a Confucian and Buddhist Temple being whipped (2 pops) into it for overflow Hammers)
Currently 3 pops and +11F working pig, fish and cow. As it grows, new citizens will work the lake tiles or farms to speed up growth.
Risaia:
Work Boat (just whipped) -> Library (partial) -> Settler for Whales (at 3 pops)
Currently 1 pop and +5F working a FP farm. As it grows, new citizens will work the FP cottage, 2 FP farms as they are completed, and marble.
Crabs:
Buddhist Missionary (just whipped) -> Buddhist Temple (whipped) -> Buddhist Missionary (whip for 1 on a turn where we’ll be able to build another Buddhist Missionary to catch the overflow hammers) -> Buddhist Missionary.
Currently 1 pop and +5F working fish. At it grows, the second citizen will work the crabs. One turn before growing to 3 pops, it will whip 1 pop into a Buddhist missionary, thus never growing above 2 pops. If needed, it can steal a GFarm from Grt Person Farm.
*Three Clams:
Granary (just whipped) -> Library (partial) -> Lighthouse (whip for 2 at 4 pops) -> Library
Currently 1 pop and +3F working a cow tile. As it grows, new citizens will work the 3 clams tiles (1 currently improved, 1 netted by Sugar Daddy work boat and the other netted by Risaia work boat)
Sugar Daddy:
Work Boat (just whipped) -> Granary (whipped - try to get Confucianism here before whipping) -> Library
Currently 1 pop and +4F working a sugar tile. At it grows, new citizens will work the second sugar followed by the mined hills. Before working an unimproved square, I will whip the granary with overflow into a library. Hopefully the worker is able to get ahead of the population growth by this time.
Goldfish:
Buddhist Missionary (just whipped) -> Buddhist Temple (whip for 1 just before growing to 4) -> Granary. I will fit in a Buddhist Missionary when possible, but I’d like to work the fish and at least 1 gold (if not both) as much as possible, which means that I would want to whip this city the turn before growing to 4 pops. Plus, Crabs is a slightly better Buddhist Missionary pump because it already has a granary and is on the main land.
Currently 1 pop and +5F working a fish tile. At it grows, new citizens will work the gold mines.
Ivory Towers:
Worker -> Work Boat -> Granary
Currently 1 pop and +2F while building a worker. I will switch to Caste System for 5 turns to let the whipping anger drop a bit. This will allow Ivory Towers to hire an Artist for 4 turns, giving it a much needed border pop. Then, the citizen will work the improved Fish tile (work boat is waiting for this border pop) while finishing the worker.
Mystic:
Worker -> Granary (try to get Confucianism here before whipping)
Currently 1 pop and +5F while building a worker and working a fish tile. As it grows, the new citizen will work the horse.
Spreading Buddhism
Both Crabs (primary) and Goldfish will work as Buddhist Missionary pumps. Buddhism will be spread to our cities in the following priority order:
Wheaties
Delhi
Silverado
Grt Person Farm
Riverdale
Bedrock
Three Clams
Regarding how long to have a missionary wait before spreading Buddhism, as long as a city has the # of current religions plus 2 (while 3 would be ideal) additional population points, there is no need to wait more than the first turn, so that the Missionary has "full movement," which seems to be the first "breakpoint" in success.
Worker Actions See detailed PPP for worker actions. I didn't have time to update this section, so I removed it.
Non-worker Unit Movements
Confucian Missionary 6 (in Wheaties) – Send to Goldfish
Work Boat 2 (near barbs) - continue exploring
Galley 1 – Explore west
Galley 2 - Guards the water around Ivory Towers
Galley 3 (near Gold Fish): Transports a Buddhist Missionary and worker 6 to mainland, transports a Confucian Missionary to Gold Fish, and guards the waters around Goldfish
Work Boats 9 (from Risaia): Create Fishing Boats for Three Clams’ Clam
Work Boat 10 (from Sugar Daddy): Creates Fishing Boats for Three Clams’ Clam
Turn-by-Turn Plan
Spoiler:
T192 (280 AD)
Cancel wheat for clam trade with Zara.
Re-do wheat for clam trade with Zara.
Switch civics from Police State to Representation and from Slavery to Caste System so that we are running Representation, Bureaucracy, Caste System, Decentralization and Organized Religion.
Worker 1: Farm S of Risaia
Worker 2: Chop NE of Wheaties
Worker 3: Farm/stop W of Delhi
Worker 5: Road/stop NW of Riverdale
Confucian Missionary 6: Head to Goldfish. All movement of units will avoid ending turns on a square that would mess with potential forest re-growth.
Delhi: Switch build from University of Sankore to the Parthenon.
Three Clams: Remove library (0 hammers) from build queue. Citizen works PCow.
Ivory Tower: Hire and artists (3 turns)
T193 (295 AD)
Worker 3: Chop N+N of Silver
Worker 4: Road sugar NW of Sugar Daddy.
Worker 5: Chop GRivFor N+NW of Riverdale.
Worker 6: Road 1 tile SE of current location (N+N of Basra)
Galley 3: Sail to Risaia.
Buddhist missionary 1 (from Crabs): Head to Wheaties.
Buddhist missionary 2 (from Gold Fish): Board Galley 3.
Grt. Person Farm: Grows to 4. New citizen works lake.
Crabs: Finish Buddhist missionary. Start Buddhist temple.
Three Clams: Finish Granary. Start Lighthouse to catch overflow hammers.
Three Clams: Move citizen from cow to netted clam.
Goldfish: Change build from partial granary to Buddhist temple.
T194 (310 AD)
Wheaties: Grows to 4. New citizen works PHill mine.
Risaia: Grows to 2. New citizen works FP cottage.
Three Clams: Switch build from partially completed lighthouse to library. LH will be whipped for 2 once city grows to 4.
Sugar Daddy: Grows to 2. New citizen works second sugar tile.
Set research to 0%
Look for trades for newly acquired sugar resource.
T195 (325 AD)
Buddhist Missionary 2: Unloads from galley and heads to Delhi.
Worker 2: Mine/stop NE+NE+N of Delhi (on his way to help chop the Parthenon)
Worker 3: Move and chop forest NE of Silverado. Hammers go into Moai Statues.
Worker 4: Road second sugar tile E of Sugar Daddy.
Grt. Person Farm: Grows to 5. New citizen works a lake.
Crabs: Grows to 2. Work crab (or FP tile if we have lost the crab like in the test game).
Ivory Tower: Fire artist and work newly netted fish. This “delay” by working the artist actually speeds up the worker by 1 turn.
T196 (340 AD)
Great person is born. If it is a GE, play on until T209. If it is a GS, play on until the Parthenon is completed.
Worker 2: Chop forest NE+NE+E of Delhi.
Worker 3: Farm/stop NE of Silverado.
Worker 5: Build farm on GRiv N+NW of Riverdale.
Galley 3: Unload Confucian missionary for Gold Fish.
Worker 6: Board Galley 3.
Delhi: Grows to 12. Hire scientist.
Riverdale: Grows to 4. New citizen works most mature cottage.
Wheaties: Switch from the AP to a Confucian missionary.
Grt. Person Farm: Grows to 6. New citizen works a farm.
T197 (355 AD)
Switch civics from Caste System to Slavery so that we are running Representation, Bureaucracy, Slavery, Decentralization and Organized Religion (no Pacifism yet because we need OR for missionaries).
Worker 1: Farm/stop S+SE of Risaia.
Worker 3: Move and chop forest N+N of Silverado. Hammers go into Moai Statues.
Worker 4: Mine GHill N of Sugar Daddy.
Silverado: Grows to 4. New citizen works lake.
Bedrock: Grows to 4. New citizen works FP cottage, stolen back from Risaia.
Wheaties: Attempt to spread Buddhism on the turn the missionary arrives. This gives us a better chance to do it now before the city is whipped.
Wheaties: Whip Confucian missionary for two pops. Citizens work wheat and cow.
Grt. Person Farm: Whip Confucian temple for 2 pops.
Risaia: Grows to 3. Switch build from partial library to a settler for Whales. Citizens work marble and two FP farms.
Crabs: Whip Buddhist temple to keep cultural pressure on the clams.
Three Clams: Grows to 2. New citizen works the cow (coastal clam + cow).
T198 (370 AD)
Worker 1: Farm/stop S+S of Bedrock.
Worker 2: Move and mine/stop NE+NE+N of Delhi (delay forest chop by 1 turn)
Worker 3: Chop forest W+W of Delhi.
Worker 6: Farm/stop S+SE of Risaia.
Confucian missionary 7: Heads to Crabs (for more cultural pressure on the crabs tile).
Wheaties: Grows to 3. New citizen works the oasis.
Grt. Person Farm: Grows to 5. New citizen works lake.
Crabs: Finish Buddhist temple. Start Buddhist missionary.
Crabs: Grows to 2. New citizen works the crab (or FP if we have lost the crab)
Gold Fish: Grows to 2. New citizen works a gold mine.
T199 (385 AD)
Worker 1: Farm/stop S+S of Bedrock.
Worker 2: Move and chop forest NE+NE+E of Delhi. Hammers go into the Parthenon.
Worker 3: Chop forest W+W of Delhi. Hammers go into the Parthenon.
Worker 6: Farm GRiv S+S of Bedrock.
Crabs: Whip Buddhist missionary for 2 pops.
T200 (400 AD)
Delhi: Finishes the Parthenon. Set build to the University of Sankore. If our first great person was not a GE, stop here.
Worker 1: moves to GHillFor E+NE of Bedrock.
Worker 2: Mine/stop GHill N+NE+NE of Delhi.
Worker 3: Farm NE of Silerado.
Buddhist Missionary 3: Heads to Grt. Person Farm (unless one of the previous missionaries in Delhi and/or Wheaties failed).
Delhi: Move citizen from the PHill mine to a scientist. Delhi is working copper, 2 corn, 2 farms, 2 cottages, 3 GHill mines and a scientist.
Riverdale: Move citizen from the cottage to the GRiv farm that was just completed.
Wheaties: Grows to 4. New citizen works the PHill mine.
Grt. Person Farm: Grows to 6. New citizen works a farm.
Crabs: Completes a Buddhist missionary. Start Buddhist missionary.
Crabs: Grows to 2. New citizen works the crabs (or FP).
Sugar Daddy: Grows to 3. New citizen works a coast square. The mine is not done yet and I don’t quite have enough hammers to whip the granary yet.
T201 (415 AD)
Worker 1: Chop forest E+NE of Bedrock.
Worker 2: Farm/stop SW of Wheaties.
Worker 5: Road NW of Riverdale
Riverdale: Grows to 5. New citizen works the most mature cottage.
Wheaties: Switch build from the AP to a Confucian missionary.
Three Clams: Grows to 3. New citizen works clam.
Sugar Daddy: Whip granary for 1 pop.
T202 (430 AD)
Cancel wheat for clam trade with Zara.
Re-do wheat for clam trade with Zara.
Worker 2: Road PHill W of Wheaties.
Worker 5: Road W+W of Riverdale.
Worker 6: Chop/stop GFor SW of Bedrock.
Riverdale: Finishes Christian monastery (without the whip!!!). Set build to Christian temple.
Bedrock: Grows to 5. New citizen works the GRiv farm.
Grt. Person Farm: Grows to 7. New citizen works a farm.
Wheaties: Switch build from partially completed Confucian missionary back to the AP.
Sugar Daddy: Finishes granary. Set build to lighthouse.
T203 (445 AD)
Going to bed, but I wanted to put up what I had. I’ve played until the end, but it’s taking me too long to type in my notes…
T204 (460 AD)
T205 (475 AD)
T206 (490 AD)
T207 (505 AD)
T208 (520 AD)
T209 (535 AD)
T209
The UP Player's Responsibilities for EACH TURN:
Spoiler:
Check the Foreign Advisor (F4) screens for any notable changes. The screens to check are F4 -> GLANCE, F4 -> RESOURCES, and F4 -> TECHS. Be prepared to react to changes or to seek feedback from teammates if you see a change.
Spoiler:
F4 -> GLANCE: Watch for blue-colored or red-colored relations, as those indicate Annoyed and Furious relationships and can indicate a Worst Enemy situation. There is a little "head on red-colored shoulders" icon to tell you which one of said players is that AI's Worst Enemy. We should avoid trading with anyone else's Worst Enemy and should only trade with a Worst Enemy after receiving team agreement on the issue. Also, watch for yellow-colored Friendly relationships, as those indicate AIs that will IMMEDIATELY give away the techs that you trade to them, unless you also trade to the AIs that this AI is Friendly with.
F4 -> RESOURCES: Watch the "Will Trade" columns, particularly the Import's "Will Trade" column, to see what new Resources an AI offers up in trade.
F4 -> TECHS: It helps to take a screenshot of this screen regularly and then compare this screen to your screenshot. Why? Because the "Wants" column may change, which indicates that an AI learned a tech, but the BUFFY Log does not tell you about this fact. Either memorize the list or screenshot it and compare against your screenshot. The other important column to watch is the "Will Trade" column, which indicates the techs that we can get in trade. We shouldn't necessarily trade as soon as a tech appears in this column, if perhaps waiting a few turns would allow for multiple techs to appear in this column from multiple AIs, meaning that we could trade around 1 of our techs (or 2 of our techs together) to get multiple tech deals on the same turn, instead of just one tech deal.
Look at the list of Leaders on the main game screen (the screen where you can open Cities, move units, etc). Watch for an orange-colored "fist" icon to appear to the right of the smiley faces and to the left of the right-side City-count numbers. If a fist appears, it means that an AI is at war or is planning to go to war. Here is where your paying attention to the F4 -> GLANCE screen pays off, as you can predict who they might be planning a war on. You can also check the F4 -> RELATIONS screen to see if they are already at war.
If you don't detail your Science Rate switches in your PPP, you must keep an eye on the Science Rate. Make sure that if we are low on Gold that we don't slip into a non-binary Science Rate, such as 80%, due to running out of Gold to fund 100% Science Rate Research.
Special things to watch for during this turnset:
Watch the relationship with Zara every turn. Cancel our Open Borders deal with him as soon as we get +6 shared religion bonus (instead of the current +5).
Watch for Zara sending a settler party to Whales. Close borders with him immediately if he goes for it.
Watch the tiles around Riverdale (especially the Cows and forests) to see if we are gaining or losing ground.
Watch Clams clams resource to see if we are gaining or losing ground in owning this tile.
Foreign Policies Zara
We will close borders with Zara once we get +6 shared religion bonus (instead of the current +5). That way, he will stay at Friendly with us and we won’t have to worry about a sneak attack in Riverdale or Wheaties. If Toku asks us to close borders, we will do so. We are only getting +6 trade route income from him (compare this to 34 from Tokugawa, 28 from Justinian and 12 from Isabella), so our economy will not take a major hit when we do close borders.
Renegotiate wheat for clams trade every 10 turns.
Do not trade any more techs with Zara to avoid making Tokugawa even madder (currently -4 for trading with the enemy, but this should start to go down soon).
Isabella
Accept Isabella's demands EXCEPT if she asks us to switch to Hinduism--refuse to switch into that Religion, or else we might lose the race to the Apostolic Palace if we do switch Religions to Hinduism.
Keep an eye out for trading Fish to Isabella for >2 gold/turn or a happy resource.
Do NOT trade techs with Isabella since she is Mehmed’s worst enemy.
We can accept Resource Trades with Saladin, Toku, and Justinian under these conditions:
1. We will aim to give away Health Resources first, even our only source of such a Resource. If an AI does not want those Resources, will can trade Happiness Resources but only if we have extras (such as when we get two Sugars connected). 2. We will accept Happiness Resources as a priority trade, followed by Gold per Turn trades of 3 Gold per Turn or more, followed by Health Resources.
Trading Techs to Saladin, Tokugawa and Justinian Only
If we trade a tech to one, we should also be prepared to trade it to the others on the same turn, even if we only get 20 Gold or so, otherwise the three will trade with each other and will become even more advanced than before. The exception to this rule is if we happen to trade it to Tokugawa (unlikely). He won’t trade it to the others, so we don’t have to trade it around to them unless he is Friendly with them.
The only techs that we should be trading for right now include Metal Casting, Machinery, Compass and Optics, which are all on the Mass Media beeline.
Code of Laws, Philosophy, and Paper
We should avoid trading these as long as possible. We should only consider trading away these techs once two AIs have learned them, as at that point 3 players (counting us) will know said techs and the AIs may just start trading them around anyway. We might as well get some benefit out of trading them in such a scenario. For Paper and Philosophy, which both directly lead towards Liberalism, I will consult the team before trading them.
Even though both Sal and Justinian know Civil Service, I will NOT consider trading it to Tokugawa. We do not want him getting Samurai and we do not want him running Bureaucracy for as long as possible.
Since we’ve completed the Great Library already, we can consider trading our monopoly on Literature if a good trade comes along (i.e. for a Tech, not gold). We can also consider getting gold from Tokugawa such that he wins the race to Music. We don’t want Saladin to get the free GA and culture bomb cities affecting either Gold Fish or Crabs.
AI Demands for Techs
If either Justinian, Saladin or Toku demand a tech, even if it is one of our monopoly techs, I am afraid that we'll have to accept, so as to hopefully dissuade them from going to war with us and hopefully going after a different target (like Zara or perhaps no target at all). If one of them asks for Code of Laws, Philosophy, or Paper, the team should be consulted on the situation before deciding.
If another AI demands a tech other than Code of Laws, Philosophy, or Paper, we should give into that demand as long as that AI does not have a Worst Enemy. However, since Isabella and Zara are both a Worst Enemy, I would refuse said demand until the Worst Enemy condition goes away.
AI Demands for Gold
If an AI demands a quantity of Gold of 200 Gold or less, give into the demand since it shouldn't increase Traded with our Worst Enemy negative Diplo modifiers by TOO much. However, if there is some diplo room above Friendly with Zara, it may make sense to ignore such a demand from Zara so that we don’t tick off Tokugawa too much.
Comments about this Partial PPP
If we get a Great Engineer in 4 turns (> 50% odds), I will put him on ice in Delhi. If we get a Great Scientist, I will immediately have him bulb part of Education. If we get a Great Prophet, I will settle him in Delhi. If we get a non GS, I will push for another quick great person by running scientists in Delhi in the hopes that we get a GS in time to bulb half of Education. When we’re close to getting this next great person, I will switch research to Compass to prevent researching too many beakers into Education such that a GS bulb will not waste any beakers. If we already know Metal Casting and Machinery (from tech trades), then set research to Printing Press rather than Compass.
We will not explore east, avoiding meeting Mehmed for as long as possible. We do not want to be asked to join in the war between him and Isabella.
Justinian does not know Feudalism, so keep an eye on him. If he gets a reasonable amount of cash or a tech that he'll sell to us, definitely trade away Feudalism for whatever you can get.
If an AI asks to cancel one of our fish for gold trades, press the F4 key and check out the F4 -> RESOURCES page. Once you exit out of this screen, you'll end up back at the trading window, where a decision needs to be made. If that screen shows that the AI is willing to trade more Gold per Turn (under the Import section, in the column under the Gold icon), then you can consider just starting a new trade deal.
If, on the other hand, the value on that F4 -> RESOURCES screen is 0, "add" the Sugar (if roaded already) to the deal, so that we'd be offering (in Toku's case) Fish + Sugar for the 8 Gold per Turn that is already on the table.
I will use binary research exclusively. I will run 0% science until we get around 250 gold, and then run science at 100% for two turns.
Keep our World Map to ourselves. Do not trade it away. If it is demanded as tribute or asked for, give it away to anyone.
If our first great person is a GE, I will play until T209, which is when our second great person should be born, which will hopefully be a GS. If our first great person is not a GE, I may need to change plans. These new plans could possibly include getting Metal Casting, building a forge in Delhi, and hiring an engineer in hopes of getting a GE while we still have good odds and won’t have to wait ages for the next great person out of Delhi.
The Forward Outlook
In cities with OR, each pop whipped is worth 101.5 hammers into a University (300 hammers total). Therefore, we can whip a University for 3 pops after a single turn of production. Once we have 99 hammers (or it might be 98 or 97), we can whip a University for 2 pops. In cities without OR, each pop whipped is worth 90 hammers for a University. So these cities will have to invest 30 total hammers (15 base hammers) into a University to be able to whip it for 3 pops. Since all of our University cities have our current state religion, we should be able to whip the Universities immediately.
Based on my current PPP, on T210, the status of our primary and backup university cities are:
Delhi: Size 13. University in 5.
Silverado: Size 6. Library in 10.
Riverdale: Size 7. University in 12.
Bedrock: Size 7. University in 16.
Wheaties: Size 4 (size 6 in 9). Library in 7.
Grt. Person Farm: Size 10. University in 16.
Three Clams: Size 5 (size 6 in 2). Library in 8.
So, only 4 cities could possibly whip a university on this turn (the turn after learning Education). Three Clams can do it in 9 turns (8 turns to complete the library and 1 turn to put hammers into a university. Wheaties can do it in 9 turns (once it grows to 6). Building the Moai statues in Silverado just took too long for it to make any progress on a library.
Current potential flaws: no longbows and no settler. If you'd like them built, where do you suggest?
I could possibly whip two long bows rather than Confucian missionaries in Wheaties, but this would remove the OR bonus from two cities that will be whipping soon.
Where do you see an opportunity to squeeze in a Settler? Delhi could build a settler before the Parthenon, but that would be a risk. So we could give up our hopes of the Parthenon and build a settler and/or a few longbows there.
I would rather not build a settler (stunting growth) or a longbow in our other 5 university cities because they need to have libraries completed and be at size 6 as soon as possible.
Maybe Risaia can build longbows and/or settlers since it is only a "backup" university city...
The Latest Test Saved Game
This version is a lot more accurate than the one that I made before playing my turnset.
There are still a good number of differences off-continent, but our empire is pretty much exactly how things are in the real game, with only the most minor of differences.
In case you forget "who is supposed to be who," there is a Legend of names to the south-west of our continent, saying things like "Pacal is Toku," etc.
Even if you don't plan to play through this turnset, I would suggest that you download and at least open the saved game, so that you can get a feel for where we're at and the challenges that Mitchum has to face.
Roger that. And it is my suggestion to try and build a Settler in one of the University-Cities that has built a Library, reaches 6 population points, and doesn't have better things to do (Delhi and Grt Person Farm have better things to do, for example).
Circumnavigation:
Have you seen my post? we should be some 3-4 tiles away from it and this will save a good number of turns of travel for our fleet.
Ummm, yes, I saw your message. But, what would you like me to say? I didn't get the Circumnavigation bonus during my turnset. You already said that we are "close" to getting it. There's not much more to say, is there?
Nonetheless, i think they must be escorted by a caravel or a trireme at least.
There is less need to do so if we perform the following steps:
1. Load units from our continent
2. Unload the units onto Saladin's continent; since we have a lot of visibility of the surrounding area, we can spot enemy (for now just Barb) boats very easily and won't have to worry about our army being sunk
3. Walk our units across the land from Saladin's area to Justinian's area. That way, we can afford to build more land units initially, as we won't need to field a large navy immediately.
4. Load units into a Galley inside of an AI City, such as in Trebizond. Please check out the test saved game, as I even went to the trouble of RENAMING AI Cities to reduce confusion. Trebizond is the closest AI City to the Barb City.
5. Wait the Galley in Trebizond for 1 turn, so that our land units have full movement points again
6. Move the Galley next to the Barb City's landmass and unload our land units
In this way, our land units will never be vulnerable to being sunk while inside of a Galley.
That means that we won't have to wait for Metal Casting (for Triremes) or Optics (for Caravels) before we can launch our "war" against the Barb City.
We should ALSO consider building a Settler for the Barb City's landarea. We can't tell yet for certain, but it looks like the Barb City could be "land-locked." That would be JUST the kind of trap that EVIL DynamicSpirit would set up... you capture the Barb City at the end of the game, only to find out that Fur is not connected to any of your other Cities!!!
On that note, we should bring a Worker, too, just in case we need to Camp the Fur and/or build a Road from a Coastal City to the Fur City.
What would be even more evil is to find out that this City is not even the Fur City but that Fur is on some island only reachable by Astronomy... all of our hard work in planning the capture of this Barb City might not even pay off! Just something to keep in mind before we count ourselves as having "won" the Fur...
I think the Parthenon it's not worth at this stage in the game, with SM so close.
Maybe a Settler in Risaia is a good idea.
BTW, what are we trying to get from Lib? Can we aim for SM or even Physics?
Well, think much will depend by the techs known by the AI. Astro would be a poor reward.
We should ALSO consider building a Settler for the Barb City's landarea. We can't tell yet for certain, but it looks like the Barb City could be "land-locked." That would be JUST the kind of trap that EVIL DynamicSpirit would set up... you capture the Barb City at the end of the game, only to find out that Fur is not connected to any of your other Cities!!!
True!
By the look of the borders, that barb city looks inland.
If that's the case, a worker and a settler for that island are in order. And missionaries, of course!
BTW, what are we trying to get from Lib? Can we aim for SM or even Physics?
Well, think much will depend by the techs known by the AI. Astro would be a poor reward.
Ideally, we would get Radio, but I doubt that it'll happen in an Emperor-level game, even with our tech-denial strategy.
I would be extremely happy to get Electricity or Physics.
If it came to a choice between Astronomy and Scientific Method, I'd seriously consider taking Astronomy.
By taking Scientific Method, we immediately make our Great Library and Monastaries useless, after having just completed manual research on Astronomy. That would mean that we would have had no time to build Observatories, either.
If we took Astronomy, we could get early Observatories, which would not only make up for part of the higher cost of Scientific Method, but would also allow our Great Library and Monastaries to make up the rest of the difference in terms of the two techs' total Flask values.
The DIFFERENCE is that we'd get our Observatories built (at least in our major Cities) BEFORE obsoleting The Great Library and our Monastaries, so our Science Rate would not suddenly drop off to nothing.
So, while it would be best to get a tech that comes after Scientific Method, if the choice came down to Scientific Method vs Astronomy, I'd take Astronomy, get the early Observatories, and make the most use out of our Great Library and Monastaries.
In that same token, if we get a Great Scientist, I would NOT use him on Scientific Method but would hold onto him until after we manually tech Scientific Method, so that we'll again extend the life of our Great Library and Monastaries, while still being able to get the same Flask value out of him by partially Lightbulbing Physics, once Scientific Method is learned.
If we do not build that Parthenon, Delhi is free to pump out a few longbows. We will not be running Theocracy or Vassalage or Police State, so maybe a barracks would be in order... Then, once we've grown two pops and are running two scientists, I could crank out a settler in no time for Whales.
Is this what the team wants to do or should I try for the Parthenon?
If a person wanted to do so, they could make a valid case for the fact that even once The Parthenon is obsolete, it will still provide us an extra 4 GPP per turn (and more under Pacifism) in the City that generates the most GPP in our empire.
Since the Wonder will be so cheap to build there, it would be a pretty reasonable argument to make. Even the failure Gold would be a pretty good prize for our empire, which is currently gated by its Research ability.
Since we will take ANY kind of a a Great Person for the end of the game, and since we'll want to generate those Great People BEFORE we build the UN in order to get them to the Fur on time (unless we set up a really long chain of boats), those early extra GPP will be quite useful.
If we get the additional 50% GPP in a few of our Cities for 50 turns, it'll be a nice icing bonus on our otherwise plain (but still tasty) cake.
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Just something to keep in mind before we count ourselves as having "won" the Fur...
