SGOTM 11 - Fifth Element

[Dhoomstriker]

Inter-galleon Transfers of Units

T277
Galleon 5: Move 3 tiles north to same position as Galleon 2, transfer missionary, and then move 2 tiles back south.
Galleon 2: Move 5 tiles north toward Chinook.

This kind of a situation is "ripe for danger." Specifically, a situation where a boat-chain doesn't end the movement of the first boat at the transfer point. It's very easy to think that you have the correct boat selected after making the transfer when actually having the wrong boat selected, ending up moving the wrong boat in the wrong direction and sometimes ending up with a more inefficient situation than you would have had if you had skipped the unit transfer.

So, just be extra careful during this kind of situation to ensure that you have the correct boat selected.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

T277
Galleon 4: Move 4 tiles north to same location as Galleon 2, pick up missionary, and head 1 tile back north toward Chinook.

Here's a typo that may be confusing later: the first "north" should read "south."

All GP chain boats are in place

I couldn't see any obvious issues anywhere, so your naval movement plan sounds great!

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Oh yeah, I guess that I should make it clear that I am okay if you play forward for your 3 turns.

 

[Mitchum]

Inter-galleon Transfers of Units

This kind of a situation is "ripe for danger." Specifically, a situation where a boat-chain doesn't end the movement of the first boat at the transfer point. It's very easy to think that you have the correct boat selected after making the transfer when actually having the wrong boat selected, ending up moving the wrong boat in the wrong direction and sometimes ending up with a more inefficient situation than you would have had if you had skipped the unit transfer.

So, just be extra careful during this kind of situation to ensure that you have the correct boat selected.

Yes, I've had this happen to me before. However, when using a galley chain, it can't be avoided and will come up during my turnset many, many times. Luckily, I've done them enough times that my chances of screwing things up are less than 50%...

 

[Mitchum]

Here's a typo that may be confusing later: the first "north" should read "south."

Good catch. Fixed. I really do know the difference between north and south...

 

[unclethrill]

looks good. Play at any time

 

[Mitchum]

OK, I've played until the start of T279. No moves have been made, but many of the galleons have goto commands to get them to their galleon chain locations without me having to remember every turn where to send each one.

Here are the details.

T276
I adjusted the cities to grow and I set the builds according to the PPP. I also did a bit of tech trading to get the +4 fair trade with everyone:

Spoiler :

I gifted Music to Isabell, and she went from +1 fair trade to +4 fair trade. On top of that, Isabella became friendly. So, I made this trade, which further improved our relations with her (+9 before trades to +16!!!) and told us what land Mehmed has:

I then picked up Banking, gold and a map for Astronomy. That trade gave us +4 fair trade (from +0). It also made Sal Friendly toward us (he was only pleased before).

This final trade moved us from +3 to +4 for fair trade with Justinian.

The diplo situation is shaping up in our favor quite nicely...

T277
All chops are in and the UN will be completed next turn. We'll also have enough overflow in Delhi to finish a Buddhist missionary in 1 turn after the UN is complete.

T278
The Secretary General vote comes up. I try to pull the lever for Ghandi, but only see Gandhi and Tokugawa. I panic. Where is my candidate. Oh wait, there's a "Hi" in Gandhi. Whew. I pull the Gandhi lever, being sure that my mouse never even traverses the Tokugawa button.

I check the diplo situation. Hmmm... Sal is +4 and pleased with Mehmed (the UN forced their meeting one another). Let's pull a Dhoomstriker special. I give Printing Press and 75 gold to Tokugawa for peace with Mahmed. Then, I give him Education to re-declare war.

Bingo!! Toku gets a -1 diplo hit for declaring war on Mehmed from both Justinian and Saladin. On top of that, Justinian drops from Friendly to Pleased with Tokugawa. That seals Saladin's vote.

I check the diplo screen and we also got another +2 from Justinian (+1 religion and +1 civics), +1 from Saladin (religion) and +1 from Zara (civics).

T279

The votes have been cast and we are the clear winner.

The save has been uploaded.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Nice work!

Now, can you do the math for us to convince us that we can win the game against Toku, even if vote totals change by a little bit over the next 8 turns?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Gathering our Warriors

Spoiler :

Gathering our Great People

Spoiler :

Transporting our Great People

Spoiler :

Images courtesy of Leeloo's Realm and sciflicks.com.

 

[Mitchum]

Well, the diplo situation is really quite simple. Every single AI is Friendly with us (except for Mehmed, of course). The only AI that is friendly with Tokugawa is Justinian. However, Justinian is +16 toward and only +8 toward Tokugawa. So, unless the hidden modifiers that Dhoomstriker has mentioned are WAY out of whack, we will get Justinian's vote again in addition to Sal, Izzy and Zara. Actually, they can't be that far out of whack because he just voted for us...

Assuming that the populations stay static from the Sec Gen vote, that would give:

Tokugawa (130) from Tokugawa
F.E. (172) from F.E.
F.E. (40) from Izzy
F.E. (121) from Justinian
F.E. (79) from Saladin
F.E. (34) from Zara

That gives us 446/637 = 70% which is well above the 62% required. I expect that we could be close to 185 pops by the time of the vote, so we'd have even more breathing room.

I'm going to suggest that unless something very drastic happens with the diplo situation, that we should keep all of our cities, keep the UN, and go up against Tokugawa for the diplo victory. Tokugawa is second in population by 9 pops, so we shouldn't have to worry about going up against someone else. However, we'll have to keep our eye on things to make sure that Justinian doesn't pass him up. So I'm also going to recommend that we continue to build the palace in Wheaties just in case...

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Next Partial Turnset Suggestions
With the fact that several units are set to "GOTO mode," looking at the saved game is even more dangerous than normal, so I focused at just looking at City screens.


Delhi: Switch from building a Hindu Missionary to Wealth until we have used up a Buddhist Missionary. If you plan to try to spread Buddhism in Chinook on this turn, then remember to switch to a Buddhist Missionary here.

Wheaties: In 6 turns, pause from building the Palace (it will be complete in 7 turns)--finish the Airship, if you think that it will help, or else just build Wealth.

Grt Person Farm: Either it should continue working on the Buddhist Missionary or it should remove the Buddhist Missionary from its queue, so that Delhi can build one. I'd vote to try and spread Buddhism in Chinook and finish a new Buddhist Missionary in Grt Person Farm as well as trying to build another one in Delhi, followed by building Wealth in Delhi until we have a "free slot" for either a Confucian Missionary or a Buddhist Missionary.

Sugar Daddy: Once the Airship is finished in 3 turns, switch to working Food-based squares if you think that we'll be able to grow a population point in time. If we can't grow in time, we might as well keep working the Hammer-based squares. Build Wealth at that time, too.

Ivory Towers: Once the Galleon is finished in 4 turns, switch to working Food-based squares if you think that we'll be able to grow a population point in time. Build Wealth at that time, too.

Zhou: In one turn, you can switch a GH Mine to a 2-Food square. After two turns, once the Work Boat finishes, you can switch to working the Clam. Build Wealth at that time, too.


Check each City when it grows to ensure that it works Food-based squares. Optionally, use the Emphasize Food icon without employing a City Governor in each of our Cities, so that newly-created citizens will work Food-based squares.


Workers on our mainland: Farm the Plains squares around Delhi. Build a Road near Grt Person Farm. Whatever else you want them to do.

Workers in the Barb Area: Farm some squares in order to irrigate the Wheat Resources.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Crabs: Don't forget to stop starving it when we no longer need to do so.

 

[Mitchum]

Next Partial Turnset Suggestions
With the fact that several units are set to "GOTO mode," looking at the saved game is even more dangerous than normal, so I focused at just looking at City screens.

Good point. It is a bit dangerous to have the game make an irreversible move without you knowing it. I was just trying to avoid having to move the ships every turn and having to remember which one went to which square.

Delhi: Switch from building a Hindu Missionary to Wealth until we have used up a Buddhist Missionary. If you plan to try to spread Buddhism in Chinook on this turn, then remember to switch to a Buddhist Missionary here.

Grt Person Farm: Either it should continue working on the Buddhist Missionary or it should remove the Buddhist Missionary from its queue, so that Delhi can build one. I'd vote to try and spread Buddhism in Chinook and finish a new Buddhist Missionary in Grt Person Farm as well as trying to build another one in Delhi, followed by building Wealth in Delhi until we have a "free slot" for either a Confucian Missionary or a Buddhist Missionary.

Too funny. When I put the Grt Person Farm Buddhist missionary in the queue behind Wealth, I was thinking that I could build another Buddhist missionary in Delhi. I meant to do so, but picked Hindu by mistake...

I agree. I'll try to spread the Buddhist missionary in Chinook on this turn, and then build Buddhist missionaries in both GP Farm and Delhi.

Once all cities are done with their build items, they will go into growth mode as you suggested. If they can't make it to the next pop level, they will instead focus on building wealth.

 

[Irgy]

Great work Mitchum!

It looks like we're mostly just waiting out the turns for victory, making sure we get all the game conditions in place when it happens.

Biggest thing to keep an eye on is whether the diplo situation or the second-in-population situation changes. And also we should re-read the conditions with a detailed eye to make sure we haven't missed some subtle distinction.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Too funny. When I put the Grt Person Farm Buddhist missionary in the queue behind Wealth, I was thinking that I could build another Buddhist missionary in Delhi.

Yeah, it's odd what the game lets you get away with. The game won't let you have more than 3 Buddhist Missionaries built or SOMEWHERE in a build queue, even as not being the active item.


But, you're free to remove the Buddhist Missionary from Grt Person Farm's build queue entirely and "save the Hammers" while producing a Buddhist Missionary elsewhere.


In this case, we'll be able to build a Buddhist Missionary in both Cities, making it easy to predict on which turn Grt Person Farm can continue building the Buddhist Missionary (immediately) instead of "sometime" in the future.


Anyway, enjoy your weekend break. It seems that with a few exceptions, it'll just be "button pushing" from here on in until the end of the game, so we no longer need to be "schedule conscious."


Of course, if you manage to find a way to lose the first Diplo Victory vote, a lot of questions will have to be asked...

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Brain-storming for the Extra Conditions

And also we should re-read the conditions with a detailed eye to make sure we haven't missed some subtle distinction.

diplomatic victory

We're on track for that.

that satisfies the following conditions:

* Every AI is still alive and running a state religion.

Not much chance of any AIs dying between now and the end.

Even Mehmed has switched to Theocracy, so only Buddhism will spread to his Religionless Cities. No real worries here.

Zara might be the only AI which would consider switching to Free Religion, as doing so would improve his relationship with every AI. But, he's only just received Paper in trade, so he's unlikely to get Liberalism before the end of the game, even if he gets "whiney."

* All your cities have access to fur, dye, silk and ivory.

We have to watch for Mehmed coming in at the last minute to pillage our Silk. If he pillages one of them, then play should be stopped and the team consulted.

At that time, we would have the option of declaring a pre-mature Cease Fire or doing our best to save the other Silk while not losing Chinook.


All of our Cities will have to be connected to our Trade Network, so hopefully, a Privateer can't mess up our Trade Route connections. If one can, then that's something to watch for in the last couple of turns before the Diplo Victory voting option appears.

* You have the welcoming party of four great people and four warriors standing ready on the only fur in the world. (The great people can be of any type)

We can certainly move the units that are in Zhou to the Fur at any time. The Longbowman or a Warrior can stand in Zhou to act as Military Police.

With our Galleon Chain in place, it would take a rogue Privateer to mess it up. If that happens, we may still be able to salvage our Diplo Vote by "walking" our Great Person and shifting our Galleon Chain to be tighter, hoping that a Privateer won't be tough enough to take on 2 Galleons within 2 turns.

* You are running a state religion which has been spread to every one of your cities.

No switching to No State Religion and no switching to Free Religion will take care of the first part of this point.

The second part is what we're working on with our Buddhist and Confucian Missionaries.

* No more than two AIs have a 'you declared war on us' negative modifier towards you.

We only have one of these, and while we don't want to have another one happen, we still have an extra declaration available to us.

To be safe, it's best to open the F4 screen when you want to talk to an AI and right-click on their portrait there. It's a bit annoying of a work-around, but we can't afford to accidentally declare war on an AI, which can happen if you have the Alt key held down when clicking on their name in the "Scoreboard" list of leadernames at the bottom right of the "main game screen."

 

[BLubmuz]

Good work, for now, now let's close this, so we can see where we are!
Podium or another middle-of-the-pack?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Good work, for now, now let's close this, so we can see where we are!
Podium or another middle-of-the-pack?

For me, it has always been about the learning (and the teaching).

It will be very interesting to read HOW others played, but the result achieved has always been a competition against ourselves--can we work together as a team, can we successfully navigate the vast array of additional game conditions, and can we beat our originally-targeted date of Turn 330.

On that note, will there be a "spoiler thread" type of idea like they have in the regular XOTM competitions, so that players don't have to slog through thousands of messages just to get a summary of what a team did?

 

[unclethrill]

For me, it has always been about the learning (and the teaching).

It will be very interesting to read HOW others played, but the result achieved has always been a competition against ourselves--can we work together as a team, can we successfully navigate the vast array of additional game conditions, and can we beat our originally-targeted date of Turn 330.

On that note, will there be a "spoiler thread" type of idea like they have in the regular XOTM competitions, so that players don't have to slog through thousands of messages just to get a summary of what a team did?

I've never seen one.

I can safely say I learned a whole lot in this game whether we win or lose!

 

[BLubmuz]

For me, it has always been about the learning (and the teaching).

It will be very interesting to read HOW others played, but the result achieved has always been a competition against ourselves--can we work together as a team, can we successfully navigate the vast array of additional game conditions, and can we beat our originally-targeted date of Turn 330.

On that note, will there be a "spoiler thread" type of idea like they have in the regular XOTM competitions, so that players don't have to slog through thousands of messages just to get a summary of what a team did?

It seems that our "religion-deny" strategy has not worker well, since we finished to adopt the only religion founded by an AI (let's not consider Islam, which always comes too late to be of some influence). This was because that religion auto-spreaded fast (i doubt that Toku would have had OB with Sal before the religion) to 2 AIs.

We sacrificed a lot in (successfully) pursuing that strategy. Usually a tech-intensive game like a Diplo requires to make contact ASAP (with all the related cons) with all the AI, try to trade for the early techs beelining to Alpha.

If our result will be beaten it will be for this reason, probably.
It's in any case a good result, excellent if compared to our initial target and to the best present HoF result, mainly considering the constraints of this competition.

It was only in the early 3 SGs (IIRC) that a mid-game and a final spoiler thread was opened. I remember that many reports were very fun to read and very interesting.
After that this competition became "cut-throat" with a very high level of players and competition. So, no more spoiler threads.
Still, some team keep track in a single post of its milestones (like we do in linking out TS reports) and some post a decent report.
I will try to ask to Alan if he think it's worth to open a spoiler thread.

I've never seen one.

I can safely say I learned a whole lot in this game whether we win or lose!

I agreewith UT.
We played well as a team after the initial period of adjustment and i've learned a lot about MM (and i wasn't bad at it) and about the Diplo tricks. Still, i hate this VC.

Many of Dhoom posts could be linked for the War Academy.

On a final note, i'll be away from Monday afternoon to Friday, in the mountains just over an hour from here but without Internet access.
So, good luck to Mitch (and to us) for his final push.