SGOTM 11 - klarius

I do not think I can play, at least for a while, because a number of unforeseen circumstances have arisen. For starters, I cannot boot into my Windows installation at the moment (posting this from Linux) and the usual remedies do not seem to work. I will look into that but I really want to avoid the whole backup-and-reinstall thing (I can read my data from Linux) since that is very time consuming and I have a new system on order. Secondly, my employer is sending me on two business trips that suddenly came out of the blue. I am really sorry guys, I realize the timing is lousy. I will try to sort things out asap.
 
I'm very sorry, but I had some emergency tonight. I will definitely play tomorrow
 
Well, looks like a short roster currently.

klarius just played
Ronald UP
Northern Pike on deck
Offa are you around ?
Crakie skipped until posts to be available

Maybe we should do bigger sets in the first round (15-20 turns).
This is a slow starting game with the lack of food and commerce. So there aren't many decisions.
 
Thinking a little bit about the game.

We met India/China @ turn 12.
They had TW and BW in addition to their starting techs.
It's impossible that they had researched TW by then and very unlikely for BW. Huts are a possibility but also not very likely for non-exp.
So I think Japan is together with them and a scientific civ (Korea?). That would make a nice allied east Asian bloc.
Arabia is not allied to them and we know Egypt is to the north (yellow borders up there). How about a middle eastern bloc together with Ottomans?

If this is so, life should be pretty easy once a war between these blocs started.
We may even think to get this going right after we get writing.

Another thought:
60% water standard continents usually doesn't leave large gaps between continents. Together with differential naval movement a curragh may make it with only one suicide stop. Watch out for suspicious ocean coloring.
 
I only played 10 turns because ofg time constraints. Nothing spectacular going on:

turn 0 3000 BC: nothing to do

turn 1 2950 BC: worker starts road

turn 2 2900 BC: nothing

turn 3 2850 BC: hut5 -> 25g

turn 4 2800 BC: Zimbabwe builds settler -> curragh

turn 5 2750 BC: nothing

turn 6 2710 BC: found Ulundi

turn 7 2670 BC: build curragh -> warrior

turn 8 2630 BC: nothing

turn 9 2590 BC: build warrior -> settler

turn 10 2550 BC: nothing

There is a barb camp next to our scout, the scout has his movement points, move wherever you want him to move.
Ulundi started a warrior, change it to whatever you want
 
I've got it.

This is a difficult position to dotmap, so I won't attempt the whole peninsula, but I think we can settle the three sites I've indicated without losing any of our options farther south. 1 is the best site pre-expansion (our scout is on BG), but the barbs are an issue. 3 can wait a long time, until we have the workers to make it productive with mined hills and irrigated grassland. So my inclination is to settle 2 if I settle on the southern peninsula at all, though I may well settle in the still-foggy area west of Zimbabwe if that seems safer. Would anyone object to this?

I don't expect to get Writing on my round, but anyway, what should be our goal after that? Literature, for the probable monopoly?

SGOTM11-Klarius-2550BC.JPG
 
Looks good :goodjob:.

I would prefer now a worker, then an archer (or Impi) in the capital. One could MM away from cow for this to give the cow to Ulundi for a turn (in fact 2 is possible). If staying on the settler, I would rather build it in 3 by working forest instead of grass for one turn (still can work then coast for the next turn) and not waste a lot shields on the growth turn.
I also would rather build a curragh in Ulundi first. One curragh has to go north, but if there turns up a nice suicide opportunity, I would like a second at hand.

But the real decision we have to take now is, if we want to build the useless city to irrigate Zimbabwe, or go directly to settle towards the southern lake.

If we build the hill city, we should move it as soon as the irrigation is brought through it. The city should be able to get 3 uncorrupted shields, working forest, so can be moved at size 1 after 10 turns (even earlier if we put the forest chop in it). I think that would probably be the best in the long run.

But obviously building a few nice cities to keep, first, has it's merits. But it takes a lot useless irrigations then to bring water all the way up to Zimbabwe (but also one very useful on the sheep). In any case, I think the worker first is beneficial. Both options need a lot of work, while we also want to get a road on the goat soon (and roads and mines on grass).
And the usual reminder ;), please, nobody cut the grass forest nw of Zimbabwe w/o a real good reason that stands my polite arguments:gripe:.

Research wise, I would continue full steam writing, with taking loans and maybe a few barbs to finance it. We may still have the chance for the monopoly, but I think it will be tight, with alphabet and BW everywhere right from the beginning. Every turn we gain can make the difference between writing being pretty worthless and getting us all techs around. So take every chance to MM for an extra coin, if it doesn't hamper other goals.

The free scout should go to the fog still present sw of Zimbabwe and after that (if still alive) can be disbanded in Z. There will be opportunities where 2 shields make a difference.

Edit:
Crosspost with NP.
If we go south first. we really should put a town on the lake that saves a tile irrigation towards the north. Probably directly north of the lake, though this site doesn't look so nice with other respect. But there are anyways no perfect sites on our strange land. I would put 2 one ne to control the choke and as channel and call it 1. Then to the lake to get irrigation to the sheep ASAP.

After writing, I would give philosophy a try. But that's still pretty far in the future. We should really think about it when we have writing, which still takes some time.
 
The progress chart review ™
Most teams settled on the second turn probably where we settled.
Exceptions are:
Newbie - in place
Python - after 2 turns.

Three teams built an early settler and settled very close:
Shaka, tao and X-nuts
Special mentioning of Psycho, who didn't plop down the second city by turn 30.
 
2550 (0): We buy 32 gold from India in two lots of 1 gpt for 16 gold.

Cow to Ulundi for a turn.

Zimbabwe worker --> archer.


2510 (1): Our curragh spots an oyster we'll be able to use.


2470 (2): 1 gpt to India for 16 gold.


2430 (3): This is the first turn of my round in which the Arabs haven't had a worker in their capital, so they've been having some trouble.

Zim archer --> settler.


2390 (4): Our scout finishes exploring the western fog. Three BG and an oyster are available.

A Cuman warrior perishes attacking one of our warriors on a mountain (1-0).


2350 (5): Two trades of 1 gpt for 16 gold, with India.

Zim is content at 10% lux, 80% research, but unhappy at 10% lux, 90% research. You don't see that much.


2310 (6): Zzzz....


2270 (7): 1 gpt to India for 16 gold.

Well, I wasted a turn and some shields trying to complete Zimbabwe's settler on growth. :mad: The governor put the new citizen on unimproved grassland when forest was available--with production as the town's priority, of course. I suppose this was because I had the town working a gems mountain for the commerce, and had the new citizen gone to a forest the city would have had no food surplus, which the AI hates. A bad way to learn that nuance. :rolleyes:


2230 (8): Zim settler --> archer (?), Ulundi curragh --> warrior (?).


2190 (9): Suddenly it's the Arabs, not the Indians, who have a lot of gold (75). I'll leave it up to the next player what to do about that, since we have enough gold already for a few more turns of deficit spending.

I'll turn it over here, since any move we make with the new settler will commit us, and there should be an opportunity for discussion.
 
The idea of founding a junk city just to abandon it after it's allowed us to bring irrigation to Zimbabwe the short way strikes me as overelaborate, at least at this point when every settler is precious. I'd rather found good towns in convenient locations, for the moment. I'd like to use the new settler at 4 on the dotmap, assuming that we'd round off our position in the west by settling 5 later. Or, if we decide it's important to get the use of the oysters before expansion, we could settle 6 now and 7 later. I think this could be done safely without an escort for the settler, provided we make proper use of our scout in the area.

The builds in our cities are just placeholders, and can be changed to whatever the next player prefers.

We're closing in on the barb camp on the southern peninsula with an archer and a veteran warrior, but it doesn't help that the camp is in a forest.
 
You need 3 food surplus for the governor to even consider to work a 1 food tile over a 2 food one.
Then it's still not guaranteed. If the total strength (including commerce) of the tile is higher he will still want this tile.
Emphasis on production will only be the last tie breaker in very few cases.

The idea of building a temporary city doesn't cost as much as you think. It would be abandoned for a settler, which can build a good city then.
In case not everybody is aware, you can build a settler at size one with no food surplus, you don't have to grow to 2 before. So the city could work a gem mountain for 15 turns providing good commerce and then be abandoned for a settler.
Or any combination with forest turns (last turn gems or scientist) to abandon it even faster.
The real problem is to get the irrigation work done fast enough. 3 irrigations, 1 chop and quite a few movements.

Still settling this town and work gems (or scientist) would get us the highest research short term.

And being able to build settlers in 6 instead of 8 turns makes quite a difference.

If we don't get irrigation via the hill we really should look to get it from the southern lake ASAP. Then a town which soon will work the then irrigated sheep (cow in disguise - the strongest tile we see) has high priority.
This town does not necessarily have to be coastal. We can fill in the fishing villages later when we have MM.
 
The temporary city sounds somewhat more reasonable now that you've explained the concept fully. I suppose it'll be your round and your call, unless we hear from Offa soon.
 
Looks like Offa got temporary lost in cyberspace (read: BT network). I put in another set to move us along.
Hope we hear from Offa on Monday then.
Got it.
 
Actually Klarius, although I am writing here, I am effectively lost in cyberspace, and agree you ought to play.

I had to come in to work to write this, as I have no link at home. In addition I am just starting a week of paternity leave as my 3rd child was born yesterday :D (3 girls: a very pink and fluffy household), so I am struggling to keep up with this game.
 
Played, The save

Turn log:

I will implement the temporary city idea. Not because I think it's necessarily best, just because I like :).
It will also keep our score low for some time, so others might wonder what we are doing :D.

Turn 0 2190:
Move units. Settler towards hill.
Change Ulundi to worker.
Notice Arabia has no city besides capital. That smells like war :D.

Turn 1 2150:
Archer takes out camp. Warrior kills barb.
Cur1 sees suspicious waters. Will continue north to egypt.
Cur2 will try suicide crossing, when it gets there.

Turn 2 2110:
Temp city built, workers start to work on the "big Project".
Curraghs row.

Turn 3 2070:
Zimbabwe archer-warrior. The next settler will be sped up, by a forest chop.
Ulundi takes cow.
Curraghs do their thing.

Turn 4 2030:
Suicide curragh sees blue border (Germany according to mapstat).

Turn 5 1990:
Meet the Germans and the Egypt. Both have the same techs as everybody else.
Another camp, another 25.

IBT:
Writing comes in. Monopoly at least for the people we know.
I trade with Germany for IW, TW and CB.
Arabia Mysticism, HBR and 125g.
Egypt Masonry and 13g (she wants to keep 5g, oh well she can have it).
Gandhi gives 31g writing.
And Mao 11g for HBR.
Set research to philosophy, republic slingshot is pretty unlikely, now that I distributed writing to three factions.
We have now 228g and all techs known to our "friends".
Build embassies with India, Egypt and Germany for 122g.
Not so hot capitals, I would say.
klarius_sg11_2.jpg

klarius_sg11_3.jpg

klarius_sg11_4.jpg

Turn 6 1950:
We have iron and horses sw of Zimbabwe and near the southern lake.
Germany and Egypt-Arabia have math.
Get it from Germany for mysticsim, HBR, 3gpt an 11g.
With mathematics known (opens up the expensive construction), there might still be the chance for republic sling.
Change science to CoL.

Turn 7 1910:
Workers work. Curraghs curr.
We meet France. They are allied with Germany. Interestingly they are pretty behind in tech. But they have no money.
Germany has all the money now. I buy some of their money, before they waste it all on rushing nonsense.
Zimbabwe settler->barracks.

Turn 8 1870:
France has taken out a camp. I take the opportunity to gift her a few coins and then sell her math and HBR.
Germany has really rushed something. Most of their cash is away.

Turn 9 1830:
Moves.

Turn 10 1790:
The same.

Turn 11 1750:
Build Hlobane near sheep.

Okay even turn - stop here.
The irrigation to Zimbabwe will be done in 2 turns. 2 more to irrigate the cow.
In 6 turns you will be asked if you want to give up Temp city for the settler.
One could also keep it a bit longer by using a scientist instead of the gems.
It's currently one of our best research cities.
But in the long run we have to get rid of it. It's to small a city to take the lowest corruption rank.
So either leave it as is and move it in 6, or apply a scientist and move it in 12.
The worker in Zimbabwe is supposed to road to Hlobabane and then further to the lake.
We are even in tech with everybody we know, which isn't too shabby for this start and all the alliances.

One observation:
We don't need more than MM to reach Germany and France. With differential naval movement Galleys can safely cross. This makes Germany one of the easiest targets to reach, at least before we have built a lot of roads.
We want to settle our green meadows, but also shouldn't neglect the desert in the north. A city in the corner will turn ship chaining to Germany into a piece of cake.
 
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