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SGOTM 11 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
That's what my tests have shown yup.
On t60 the third worker is at 58/90 (1 turn later), research is in between the 2 approaches I posted but Bombay has 20/33 food banked.
It's certainly interesting, the only question is by what time will Bombay be allowed to reach pop 2 and what tile will it work? I'm guessing we can spare it a fp and after that there's a grassland hill that we could chop+mine. It's going to need one of the corn to grow at some point or else it's gonna suck for a long time.
If the 3rd city is on the FP site,
We will have easy border pops (either religion and/or artists).
Hence, we will have access to both stone and marble in our cultural borders + 1 hill and 2 FP to farm.
Wouln't it be worth considering, then, going Writing --> Masonry before AH ?
I tried Poly --> PH --> Writing --> Masonry --> Fishing --> Sailing --> AH and had :
Oracle : 2100
Pyramids : 1250
GLH : 800
(The dates aren't really meaningful, I'm afraid, because I don't play anything like optimalI also went Pottery --> Monotheism afterwards to speed up the GLH)
Techs: if SH/TGW go early then we should definitely consider. Originally AH was for pig+fish city. It would kinda suck to settle on horses though and not working the cow is also bad as it's the best tile over there. The lost discount on Writing is somewhat more significant than the gained one on AH (if any).
All those worker turns for 1 commerce, possibly 2? =\
Might as well add a farm and grow a city or 2 faster for almost the same effect.
Ok no problem then.
I'm taking Duckweed's approach from a couple pages earlier:
build settler to 1 turn from completion, (if chop+whip it's 75 overflow into worker ->2 turns for completion). Any overflow from worker2 is put into worker3 and next turn switch to warrior -> 5 turns for growth and build. @size 4 resume worker3
Yes, I'm stopping at start of t60 (road first is actually 36/90 hammers in worker but a chop comes in that turn which is why I write it as 66/90)
I'd prefer next set to be stopped at the finishing of PH -- 17 turns, but then I realize that we need a stop after AH and that's only 10 turns, so 15 turns for the next set is good.
Yes, chop 1st is better.
T47 -- whip settler
T48 -- finish chop 1st so that settler can move 2 tiles. Delhi starts worker2 and worker3 and continue producing them at size3.
T49 -- Bombay settled and start settler at 2F1C tile. set research to 0%
T50 -- set research to 100%
T58 -- set research to 90%, worker3 out, start warrior.
T60 -- 1g in stock, 94/139 towards PH; Delhi at size 3 of 16F, warrior of 20h.
Let's see dingding's final detail plan.
Binary research -- this will not only apply after science multipliers are available, but also before. There's a round down calculation. If you do the math and look at the final gain (ie beakers - gold loss) of 100% and partial science slider, then there's often 1 beaker difference. Sometime partial research does not lose any round down as I proposed above at turn 58, or sometime it's better to get some techs 1 turn earlier such as Writing, currency, and CS. Most of the time, Binary research is better.
Ok taking this approach with road first:
98/139 towards PH, due in 2 turns (rather than 3), Delhi size 3 with 16 food, 20/22h on warrior. The only difference is 1 turn of farming for 1 turn of chopping grassland hill.
If we're really scrambling for beakers (and we are), this is better imo.
There's an easy way to fogbust 95% of the western area with 2 warriors:
Then I'm onboard for that as well. Awaiting dingdings detailed plan.
Also.. where will fogbusters end up?
1. on marble
2. 1W of pig
That leaves 5 tiles for barbs to spawn:
If possible I'd switch the 2 western warriors' position so that the WII one is south in the forest.
According to Bugg123, barbs start appearing ~2650BC so this leaves ~9 turns to set up the net.
OK, 1 turn earlier of PH + 3 beakers + 1H vs 2 worker turn make sense. I agree with road 1st and then mine copper before chop.
Edit:
Actually it's better to whip the settler in the earliest turn T46. We will gain 3H to settler while lose 1H to warrior. Don't understand why also lose 1 beaker, it should not since it's commerce even for 2nd city without trade route.
dingding
Prince
I tried trice till t150 (around 400BC), which allows me to have a bigger picture of the situation.
The best result is with this tech path: Poly=>PH=>Writing=>PH=>AH=>Masonry=>Mono=>Fishing=>Sailing=>Pottery=>Maths=>Meditation=>CS=>Aesth=>Literature.
Finished Oracle at t76, Pyramid at t111 (BC1100), GLH at t123 (around 950BC), CS at 500BC. By t150, finished Literature, bulbed Theology and Philosophy, 9 cities 7 workers IRRC. (I WBed to meet one more AI (JC) to simulate the oversea traderoad.)
Some keys to mention:
1) I correct my initial judgement that Delhi has to perform FE to whip settlers and delay CE, since I find trees are abundant in Bombay which can contribute to the expansion.
2) As Delhi can be a perfect CE cap, I tried to rush the academy and finally I find early AH is less interesting than early Oracle + early academy. Yes we can have 20% of discount on Writing with AH, but we can have 40%+ improvement on tech with an early academy (see my micro below). Before AH is finished, the 3rd city can work on FP farm which is not bad at all compared to the 3F3H cow.
3) Mono is very very powerful for wonder spamming. It doesn't matter to get the GHL techs later than mono because trees can be prechopped and pop can grow and be whipped later.
4) The GLH can be chopped much more easily with OR and maths, if we can get maths earlier.
5) Since AIs' expansion is so slow on Emp, I think Currency is unnecessary with the a limited number of foreign traderoads.
6) I rush a GP with a temple + a priest. We can have more choices on Culture victory if we grab another religion.
Detailed micro till 83:
T45 Worker 1 (W1) chops.
T46 Revolt to Slavery. Delhi (Del) whipped.
T47 Delhi finished settler and starts worker.
T49 Bombay (Bom) founded. Bom 1 pop on Corn. Bom starts with SH. Del 1 pop on 1F1H1C. Research to 0%. W1 builds road.
T50 Research to 100%
T51 W2 out and builds road. Del builds W3 and takes the Corn. Bom 1 pop on 2F1C.
T52 Cities linked.
T55 Copper mined. Bombay starts settler.
T56 Poly finished and PH starts. W1 goes to Del's hill 1 and chops. W2 goes to Del's 2F1C and farms.
T58 W3 out and goes to Del's hill 2 and chop. Del starts to build the 4th warrior. Research to 0%.
T59 Research to 100%.
[Edit]To compare, if binary research is not applied (T58 Research = 90%):
T60 PH 94/139. Delhi: 3Pop, Pop 16/39, Warrior 11/22. Bombay: 1Pop, Pop 20/33, Settler 35/149
It's like -9H in Delhi and +8F in Bombay.
T63 PH finished and starts Writing. Del pop=4, the 4th pop works on 3F1C. Del finished warrior and starts Oracle. W1 and W2 chop, giving 60H to Del. (The same with Duck here, worker prechops and premine.) W3 starts to chop 2F1H.
T64 W1 and W2 mine Del's hill 1.
T66 Del's 4th pop works on hill 1 (1F3H1C). W1 and W2 go to chop 2F1H.
T67 W3 chops and gives Del 30H.
T68 W3 chops for Bom. Del pop = 5, the 5 pop works on 3F1C. Research to 0%.
T69 W1 finish chopping and give 30H to Del. W2 build road to Zara. Research to 100%.
T70 W1 build road to site 3 (cow+stone+marble+FP)
T72 W3 finished chopping and give 30H to Bon.
T73 Settler out. W3 goes to build road to site 3 with W1, then two FP farm.
T74 Del pop = 6. Bom takes the corn. Research to 10%. Vaja founded, starts ToA.
T75 Writing finished and AH starts. Research to 0%. OB with Zara. W2 enter Etho and build road.
T76 Oracle finished. Revolt to CS. Del takes the corns and hire 3 scientists, starts settler. Bom pop=2, starts worker. Vaja builds SH.
T82 Del: hire 2 scientists. 1 pop works on 1F3H1C.
T83 GS born with 80%. builds academy. Research to 100%.
I prefer this path because early academy improves the research by 40%. By the end of T83, I had around 150 gold which allow me to keep 100% during the next 15-20t, until Pottery perhaps.
Meanwhile the cow (in Vaja) is irrelevant and we don't need to improve it so quickly. A 4F FP farm is good as well.
How do you think?
The best result is with this tech path: Poly=>PH=>Writing=>PH=>AH=>Masonry=>Mono=>Fishing=>Sailing=>Pottery=>Maths=>Meditation=>CS=>Aesth=>Literature.
Finished Oracle at t76, Pyramid at t111 (BC1100), GLH at t123 (around 950BC), CS at 500BC. By t150, finished Literature, bulbed Theology and Philosophy, 9 cities 7 workers IRRC. (I WBed to meet one more AI (JC) to simulate the oversea traderoad.)
Some keys to mention:
1) I correct my initial judgement that Delhi has to perform FE to whip settlers and delay CE, since I find trees are abundant in Bombay which can contribute to the expansion.
2) As Delhi can be a perfect CE cap, I tried to rush the academy and finally I find early AH is less interesting than early Oracle + early academy. Yes we can have 20% of discount on Writing with AH, but we can have 40%+ improvement on tech with an early academy (see my micro below). Before AH is finished, the 3rd city can work on FP farm which is not bad at all compared to the 3F3H cow.
3) Mono is very very powerful for wonder spamming. It doesn't matter to get the GHL techs later than mono because trees can be prechopped and pop can grow and be whipped later.
4) The GLH can be chopped much more easily with OR and maths, if we can get maths earlier.
5) Since AIs' expansion is so slow on Emp, I think Currency is unnecessary with the a limited number of foreign traderoads.
6) I rush a GP with a temple + a priest. We can have more choices on Culture victory if we grab another religion.
Detailed micro till 83:
T45 Worker 1 (W1) chops.
T46 Revolt to Slavery. Delhi (Del) whipped.
T47 Delhi finished settler and starts worker.
T49 Bombay (Bom) founded. Bom 1 pop on Corn. Bom starts with SH. Del 1 pop on 1F1H1C. Research to 0%. W1 builds road.
T50 Research to 100%
T51 W2 out and builds road. Del builds W3 and takes the Corn. Bom 1 pop on 2F1C.
T52 Cities linked.
T55 Copper mined. Bombay starts settler.
T56 Poly finished and PH starts. W1 goes to Del's hill 1 and chops. W2 goes to Del's 2F1C and farms.
T58 W3 out and goes to Del's hill 2 and chop. Del starts to build the 4th warrior. Research to 0%.
T59 Research to 100%.
[Edit]To compare, if binary research is not applied (T58 Research = 90%):
T60 PH 94/139. Delhi: 3Pop, Pop 16/39, Warrior 11/22. Bombay: 1Pop, Pop 20/33, Settler 35/149
It's like -9H in Delhi and +8F in Bombay.
T63 PH finished and starts Writing. Del pop=4, the 4th pop works on 3F1C. Del finished warrior and starts Oracle. W1 and W2 chop, giving 60H to Del. (The same with Duck here, worker prechops and premine.) W3 starts to chop 2F1H.
T64 W1 and W2 mine Del's hill 1.
T66 Del's 4th pop works on hill 1 (1F3H1C). W1 and W2 go to chop 2F1H.
T67 W3 chops and gives Del 30H.
T68 W3 chops for Bom. Del pop = 5, the 5 pop works on 3F1C. Research to 0%.
T69 W1 finish chopping and give 30H to Del. W2 build road to Zara. Research to 100%.
T70 W1 build road to site 3 (cow+stone+marble+FP)
T72 W3 finished chopping and give 30H to Bon.
T73 Settler out. W3 goes to build road to site 3 with W1, then two FP farm.
T74 Del pop = 6. Bom takes the corn. Research to 10%. Vaja founded, starts ToA.
T75 Writing finished and AH starts. Research to 0%. OB with Zara. W2 enter Etho and build road.
T76 Oracle finished. Revolt to CS. Del takes the corns and hire 3 scientists, starts settler. Bom pop=2, starts worker. Vaja builds SH.
T82 Del: hire 2 scientists. 1 pop works on 1F3H1C.
T83 GS born with 80%. builds academy. Research to 100%.
I prefer this path because early academy improves the research by 40%. By the end of T83, I had around 150 gold which allow me to keep 100% during the next 15-20t, until Pottery perhaps.
Meanwhile the cow (in Vaja) is irrelevant and we don't need to improve it so quickly. A 4F FP farm is good as well.
How do you think?
dingding
Prince
In my further test, Bombay only borrows the corn for 2 turns. I also find it's not interesting to let it grow to 2 pop because we'll have -1gpt of maintenance in this size.
I'll try it out to see how it feels. I still think I'd put Fishing earlier (PH>Fishing?) so that Vijay can have 1/2 workboats out to explore and get those intercontinental trade routes, if there are any.
>>Agree with true binary research, that should solve rounding problems.
>>Agree with true binary research, that should solve rounding problems.
@ dingding, I have to stand on the opposite of the following points.
1. worker 1 move, you did not read the previous posts. Road and then mining is better move then chop->road->mining. After that, I ran a longer test and found that it's unnecessary to chop the plain forest to hurry the 3rd worker, since the worker force is enough and skipping the chop enable the earlier mining on the riverside hill tile.
2. AH->Writing or Writing->AH
As the reasons I already mentioned. Your 4~6 turns earlier of Oracle and GS does not gain more than the 20% discount of Writing.
3. Your wonder date of mids and GLH is too late due to waiting for 25% bonus from Mono. I have not run the tests that far to make a comparison. However, my feeling is the 25% hammer bonus + beakers to mono won't better than earlier mids and GLH.
4 Currency. I did not post since kossin told my thought. With islands nearby and GLH, extreme rexing and island cities are the highest priority. 2 commerce from every city and potential resource trade from AI and building wealth will accelerate CS a lot. From my experience, Cur->CS usually give almost the same date as CS directly.
5. Bulb. I'd rather settle the GP since the tech in emperor is a lot cheaper. Settled early GP with representation is much better than bulb. 1st GS should be settled. I'd consider 1 bulb to Edu only and possible Phi for access to Pacifism (not sure).
6. Edit: I'd rather start settler immediately in Bombay. My test is to let Bombay build 2 settler at size 1.
1. worker 1 move, you did not read the previous posts. Road and then mining is better move then chop->road->mining. After that, I ran a longer test and found that it's unnecessary to chop the plain forest to hurry the 3rd worker, since the worker force is enough and skipping the chop enable the earlier mining on the riverside hill tile.
2. AH->Writing or Writing->AH
As the reasons I already mentioned. Your 4~6 turns earlier of Oracle and GS does not gain more than the 20% discount of Writing.
3. Your wonder date of mids and GLH is too late due to waiting for 25% bonus from Mono. I have not run the tests that far to make a comparison. However, my feeling is the 25% hammer bonus + beakers to mono won't better than earlier mids and GLH.
4 Currency. I did not post since kossin told my thought. With islands nearby and GLH, extreme rexing and island cities are the highest priority. 2 commerce from every city and potential resource trade from AI and building wealth will accelerate CS a lot. From my experience, Cur->CS usually give almost the same date as CS directly.
5. Bulb. I'd rather settle the GP since the tech in emperor is a lot cheaper. Settled early GP with representation is much better than bulb. 1st GS should be settled. I'd consider 1 bulb to Edu only and possible Phi for access to Pacifism (not sure).
6. Edit: I'd rather start settler immediately in Bombay. My test is to let Bombay build 2 settler at size 1.
dingding
Prince
I try to mix all the ideas together and make my plan:
I turn off the pop growth in Bombay for 1 turn to avoid a -1gpt maintenance from 1 extra pop which will delay PH for 1turn.
Bombay is 0/149 on settler but 2 pop can be whipped to rush the settler. Outflow of whipping can bring cash through SH. Or we can whip a tree to save this pop anyway.
I turn off the pop growth in Bombay for 1 turn to avoid a -1gpt maintenance from 1 extra pop which will delay PH for 1turn.
Bombay is 0/149 on settler but 2 pop can be whipped to rush the settler. Outflow of whipping can bring cash through SH. Or we can whip a tree to save this pop anyway.
^^After trying it out, I'm not too keen on early Mono either, it really doesn't change much in terms of wonder dates.
Skipping Currency could work. In my latest test I got a GP at 20% odds so I settled him and was running at 100% easily and we'll get a hefty lump of gold from failed wonders. However once the real REX starts we'll definitely need Currency so why wait any longer?
Unless we add a lot of Cottages/workshops in Delhi, 'earlier' CS mostly allows for earlier chain farming as Delhi doesn't have that much commerce or production in any case.
AH or Writing
This works either way. If we get a GS first from The Oracle, then it's about even on research as Duckweed points out. However if we hit a GP then we're behind. Risk vs reward isn't fantastic here.
While bulbing Theo might work out great, it is very likely that UN is faster than culture. If we get a monster tech early, we can found a very large empire (thanks to GLH + islands perhaps) which only accelerates the time we get UN. Culture is also accelerated if it means grabbing more religions of course, but given the warnings by mapmakers and the rules, extensive warring might be needed just to secure some of the wonders. (I sure hope there's no vassaling problems)
Skipping Currency could work. In my latest test I got a GP at 20% odds so I settled him and was running at 100% easily and we'll get a hefty lump of gold from failed wonders. However once the real REX starts we'll definitely need Currency so why wait any longer?
Unless we add a lot of Cottages/workshops in Delhi, 'earlier' CS mostly allows for earlier chain farming as Delhi doesn't have that much commerce or production in any case.
AH or Writing
This works either way. If we get a GS first from The Oracle, then it's about even on research as Duckweed points out. However if we hit a GP then we're behind. Risk vs reward isn't fantastic here.
While bulbing Theo might work out great, it is very likely that UN is faster than culture. If we get a monster tech early, we can found a very large empire (thanks to GLH + islands perhaps) which only accelerates the time we get UN. Culture is also accelerated if it means grabbing more religions of course, but given the warnings by mapmakers and the rules, extensive warring might be needed just to secure some of the wonders. (I sure hope there's no vassaling problems)
Always binary research is unnecessary, in the case when Currency, CS can be completed one turn earlier or writing 1 turn earlier to finish Oracle, partial research is definitely better. Also there's sometime a certain partial slider won't let you lose round down beaker. Such as 20 beakers with 2 gold loss.
dingding
Prince
About Mono and wonder dates:
First of all, Mono is certainly needed sooner or later. Why not benefice from it earlier than later?
And Mono don't delay much the tech path: before Fishing, pop can grow in Vaja and we can whip the WB as soon as Fishing is finished so doesn't delay the exploration; the same with Lighthouse and GLH from Sailing; we don't probably need Pottery that early.
About wonder dates. Pyramid (I tried at t111) can be accomplished earlier because I built a temple before it. GLH (t123) is not later than any of the previous tries.
About Currency:
I keep my first opinion: it depends on how many AI we meet.
In my try, when Maths is complete, each AI has 3-6 cities. I met 3 AI (one by WB) and had 2 coastal city + 2 inland city. 8 foreign traderoads can be fulfilled. But with one more coastal city, there will be no quota for foreign traderoad
However, after my REX, by 150t I had 9 cities in which 7 coastal, Currency is really limited because there will be no foreign traderoad for us. IMO, it will only be interesting to meet more than 4 AI. Of course we have an option of setting down 1 or 2 city on the islands. Let's see.
About GP and bulbing:
I think the academy is always interesting in Delhi, for research and culture. That's why I tried to rush it earlier with the first GP as a GS. I will say ok to settle the rest instead of using them for bulbing. As I see it, settling GP does really matter if it's a GS, GP or GM and we can settle the extra GPs we don't want; however the Academy should be ensured so I'd like to do it early.
Another reason for rushing Academy, it's we agree on beelining CS. It works much better with Academy. Also refer to what kossin said:
GPP for the second GP will be polluted by the Oracle and mids. Without doing anything, it'll be 60% GP and 40% GE. A GE is desired to be saved for rushing the UN, but really annoying to have it early. If it has to be a GPriest, bulbing Theo will be very interesting for Culture, wonders (AP and St Sophia) and an extra happiness (annoying problem without HR).
First of all, Mono is certainly needed sooner or later. Why not benefice from it earlier than later?
And Mono don't delay much the tech path: before Fishing, pop can grow in Vaja and we can whip the WB as soon as Fishing is finished so doesn't delay the exploration; the same with Lighthouse and GLH from Sailing; we don't probably need Pottery that early.
About wonder dates. Pyramid (I tried at t111) can be accomplished earlier because I built a temple before it. GLH (t123) is not later than any of the previous tries.
About Currency:
I keep my first opinion: it depends on how many AI we meet.
In my try, when Maths is complete, each AI has 3-6 cities. I met 3 AI (one by WB) and had 2 coastal city + 2 inland city. 8 foreign traderoads can be fulfilled. But with one more coastal city, there will be no quota for foreign traderoad
However, after my REX, by 150t I had 9 cities in which 7 coastal, Currency is really limited because there will be no foreign traderoad for us. IMO, it will only be interesting to meet more than 4 AI. Of course we have an option of setting down 1 or 2 city on the islands. Let's see.
About GP and bulbing:
I think the academy is always interesting in Delhi, for research and culture. That's why I tried to rush it earlier with the first GP as a GS. I will say ok to settle the rest instead of using them for bulbing. As I see it, settling GP does really matter if it's a GS, GP or GM and we can settle the extra GPs we don't want; however the Academy should be ensured so I'd like to do it early.
Another reason for rushing Academy, it's we agree on beelining CS. It works much better with Academy. Also refer to what kossin said:
I think Delhi has to be a CE cap with decent cottages to support the REX, especially if we don't have enough foreign traderoad from GLH. It's a pic of Delhi in my play:
Spoiler :
GPP for the second GP will be polluted by the Oracle and mids. Without doing anything, it'll be 60% GP and 40% GE. A GE is desired to be saved for rushing the UN, but really annoying to have it early. If it has to be a GPriest, bulbing Theo will be very interesting for Culture, wonders (AP and St Sophia) and an extra happiness (annoying problem without HR).
I love this game, we're discussing so much small details it's really enjoyable for me.
I'd still like worker1 to road first rather than chop first. It's just a wee bit ahead in research even though it might change nothing anyway.
Getting Sailing before Mono is probably faster for GLH so that Lighthouse is done earlier. Pyramids can be done without chopping every forest or Mono in a decent date, but chopping the 3~4 forests for GLH is interesting.
Currency>CS or CS>Currency probably doesn't change much, we'll evaluate it properly in 5~6 turnsets. If we cottage Delhi out, probably CS first but it's too early to tell imo.
I'd still like worker1 to road first rather than chop first. It's just a wee bit ahead in research even though it might change nothing anyway.
Getting Sailing before Mono is probably faster for GLH so that Lighthouse is done earlier. Pyramids can be done without chopping every forest or Mono in a decent date, but chopping the 3~4 forests for GLH is interesting.
Currency>CS or CS>Currency probably doesn't change much, we'll evaluate it properly in 5~6 turnsets. If we cottage Delhi out, probably CS first but it's too early to tell imo.
1. Mono -- Have you consider the highest civic maintenance of OR, the 25% bonus on wonders (also not earlier wonder date) really does not compensate the loss from beakers and cash and delayed other techs. Moreover, most of the build early on is settler and worker, which don't benefit from OR. The more I think, the more I'm against to research it that early and ourselves.
2. Currency -- domestic trade route from island is not bad at all. One simple formula to calculate the difference. The loss from 1 extra trade route income + resource trade + (possible tech trade -- forget about this) vs the loss from earlier CS. My experience is Cur->CS always wins a lot than CS directly
3. GP -- I'd usually use 1st GS for academy, but in this game, there's difference. Once we settle the 3rd city, the slider down to 70% and will be lower with more city settled. Delhi itself only produce ~20 commerce at size 6. Therefore an academy gives 20*70%*50% = 7 beakers at most. However settled GS gives 1H6B at 1st and then 1H9B when representation is available. Moreover, the settled GS provide beakers constantly regardless of slider which is needed for those early small techs. Another important thing is that we can produce 2nd GS easily. I tend to continue hiring scientists in Delhi to get 2nd GP out.
As I mentioned before, I also prefer Delhi to be cottaged.
2. Currency -- domestic trade route from island is not bad at all. One simple formula to calculate the difference. The loss from 1 extra trade route income + resource trade + (possible tech trade -- forget about this) vs the loss from earlier CS. My experience is Cur->CS always wins a lot than CS directly
3. GP -- I'd usually use 1st GS for academy, but in this game, there's difference. Once we settle the 3rd city, the slider down to 70% and will be lower with more city settled. Delhi itself only produce ~20 commerce at size 6. Therefore an academy gives 20*70%*50% = 7 beakers at most. However settled GS gives 1H6B at 1st and then 1H9B when representation is available. Moreover, the settled GS provide beakers constantly regardless of slider which is needed for those early small techs. Another important thing is that we can produce 2nd GS easily. I tend to continue hiring scientists in Delhi to get 2nd GP out.
As I mentioned before, I also prefer Delhi to be cottaged.
A lot of good discussion!
I'm still kind of torn on the whole tech-issue. I'm also not really into Mono early in this case (delays wonders, not enough payout).
This whole AH->Writing or no deal kind of bugs me too (yes, I know it really is more efficient beakerwise, but it does delay Oracle, beakers from scientists, beakers from settled GS). Do we still get Pyramids ~1400BC going AH first (if not we're also losing beakers on rep settled GS)? Will look at it one more time to see if I can't just aggree with you and shut up
I can't seem to get GLH earlier than ~975BC, but kossin did 1000BC, right? Can we shave another 4 turns off it?
None of this really matters for dingdings turnset though. We'll keep figuring out the path after PH for next turnset.
I think roading first is the chosen path? Is you proposed plan up to date dingding?
I'm still kind of torn on the whole tech-issue. I'm also not really into Mono early in this case (delays wonders, not enough payout).
This whole AH->Writing or no deal kind of bugs me too (yes, I know it really is more efficient beakerwise, but it does delay Oracle, beakers from scientists, beakers from settled GS). Do we still get Pyramids ~1400BC going AH first (if not we're also losing beakers on rep settled GS)? Will look at it one more time to see if I can't just aggree with you and shut up
I can't seem to get GLH earlier than ~975BC, but kossin did 1000BC, right? Can we shave another 4 turns off it?
None of this really matters for dingdings turnset though. We'll keep figuring out the path after PH for next turnset.
I think roading first is the chosen path? Is you proposed plan up to date dingding?
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