SGOTM 11 - tao

[Furiey]

Sorry everyone, I'm going to be out all tomorrow and then away 27 Dec. Please skip/switch me if necessary.

With regards to the game, do we hold off taking the Great Library (I would guess we leave that city until last anyway) for a few turns to let the free libraries in the cities expand, or just go ahead and take it? I think probably take it as we don't really want the vikings to take it with the beserks and we have enough gold to rush a few temples which will probably be worth it as we need 75% territory & population for domination this game. I notice the Viking have a couple of cities on our continent and some berserks wandering around, this may help with the alliance breaking plan as we won't have to wait for them to land from overseas. I will be interested to see what does happen and agree that it doesn't harm us to try.

I wish you all a very Happy Christmas!

 

[DBear]

SGotM 11--Tao:

(0)1150: Switch Ngome to settler. I want to get a beachhead in Europe.

(1)1160: Army from Iznik attacks Rostov, wins, wounded. Two cannons and musket move next to Antalya. Autorazed Buto, getting 13. Convert Abydos to rax to upgrade units.

(2)1170: Cannon 2/2 outside Antalya, which is taken. Rostov taken, Russia is out, and we get 2995 gold! Thohoyandou built. (I use an atlas for additional city names.) Cannon 0/2 vs. Memphis, which is on a hill. Loading up gallies to transport units to Europe. Despite Memphis on a hill, it falls as it only had a regular and conscript rifle, and a longbow defending. Kill two rifles in Uskudar, they still have a sippy in there.

IT: Vikings take Uskudar w/a zerko.

(3)1180: Lobambu founded. We take Bursa & the Turks are out.

(4)1190: Army assaults Thebes, takes out 2 rifles, redlined. We have support to guard the army. We take Alexandria, they only had a rifle and longbow defending.

(5)1200: I take Thebes and get another leader, Egypt is down to its last city, the one with the GL. I get units in place around Heliopolis for the final assault, also so that France or Vikings can't steal it. I haven't seen any Germans, so I think they're the weakest target. I'll have to decide how best to go to the New World.

(6)1210: Maputo, Gabarone, Babanango, and Beachhead City are built.

(7)1220: Grrrr....French stab me again. They grab Thebes. Beachhead City is burned. We take Heliopolis and the Egyptians are out. Now to kick the Euros off OUR land! We move to take Thebes back and it's on.
Whatever. We take back Alexandria and take Uskudar from the Viks. We have cav outside Yekaterinburg.

IT: We ride the tech elevator up to the IA and get National, Steam, Med, and Ironclads (what a waste). We did NOT get the Vik's industry. Our loss of temples causes unhappiness, so I MM cities to stop rioting, a couple slip thru.

And I will end this here, as there are many major decisions to be made. Do we research? How do we establish a hold in Europe?



http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm11/tao_SG011_AD1230_01.SAV

 

[tao]

I miss any mentioning in your log that you tried to overcome the fixed alliances by MPPs as I strongly advised in 2 posts.

Did you try it and it didn't work? Or why didn't you try it?

I will be gone till the 28th.

Wish you all am Happy Christmas!

 

[Furiey]

Sorry everyone, Christmas has not gone as planned, I'm still away and won't be back until Saturday (30th). Please skip/switch me as necessary.

 

[Furiey]

Well I did get back on 30th, only to have my washing machine flood the kitchen, then I had to leave again. It's been a disasterous holiday, but I'm now back again and should (barring floods etc) be able to play tomorrow as I'm still off work. I hope you have all had a better time than me, though after this start it can only get better . Happy New Year!

 

[Tone]

It seems that Bedfordshire can be a very wet place in December! Speaking as one recent flood victim to another, I hope that you have a better start to the New Year than the end of the last one.

 

[Htadus]

Sorry everyone, Christmas has not gone as planned, I'm still away and won't be back until Saturday (30th). Please skip/switch me as necessary.

Sorry Things are not going well. I just have been busy dealing with my computer; breath some life into it by adding ram, and did not get a chance to look at the game untill at work today.

I also try to play with the bios. that was scary. Still my old AMD is still not running well.

Any ways let me know if you still need some one to pick up the game.

 

[Furiey]

Looking at the save: We can make Electricity in 18 turns at 90% for +2gpt or 17 turns at 100% for -12gpt or not reasearch at all to give +275 gpt. We have lots of gold in the bank (2800 or so) that could be used for rushes/upgrades. Given our slow rate of research I'm inclined not to research at all, but to continue rushing Cavs, although getting to Infantry would be nice...

There are several possibilites for invasion points on the other continent:

* Going for France from the southern tip of the continent we could use the 2 city island as a staging point) and then work up through the continent.

* Going for Germany, the weakest nation and shortest crossing point, although this crossing is patrolled by enemy ships.

* Invading from the other side of the continent, attacking Germany/France/Vikings through the old American Territory.

At the moment I prefer the France from the South option, using the island as a staging post. I'll play later tonight to give everyone a little time to comment.

edit: There's also invading the Vikings from the North, again with an Island as a staging post. Looking at the save further I'm beginning to like this option best to remove the annoyance of the Beserks. Not sure if we'll have enough troops to invade from both ends of the continent at the same time.

 

[Tone]

There's also invading the Vikings from the North, again with an Island as a staging post. Looking at the save further I'm beginning to like this option best to remove the annoyance of the Beserks.

I like this option best. The Vikings are more likely to use their Beserks on land if that's the quickest route to us. The Vikings are least strong in culture as well so quelling resistance and suffering flips should be easiest.

On a different note, if my calculations are correct we need 1905 tiles for 75% domination and we currently have 1409 according to MapStat. However there is just over 100 tiles still on our continent, and in some cases rushing a temple or a settler will claim these tiles. The Vikings have another 273 so taking the other ex-American and English cities into account we only need to concentrate on the North anyway. Just my way of saying that IMO we use the cash for rushing units/culture rather than research and that we attack from one end only.

 

[Furiey]

Thanks Tone, that's the approach I'm taking, currently upgrading Galleys to get the troops across quicker and to allow the 3 unit armies to fit .

 

[Furiey]

A very slow set of turns, but we have the Viking island in the North to allow us to move into the main continent. I have not started up research.

We need 388 tiles to win by domination (according to Civ Assist)

1230 AD(Turn 0): Check what we can research and decide not to; start Workers railing; upgrade a couple of Galleys to Galleons; rush a Harbour or 2 to upgrade more; decide to invade through Scandanvia; Settle Zimbabwe 2 and New Zunguin & Ulundi 2; Yekaterinaburg is saved from our attack by a Beserk but we lose no troops in the attempt; rush some Cavs.

IBT: no attack, French Frigate goes S, Viking Ironclad goes home.

1240 AD(Turn 1): continue railing, move Cavs and Cannon towards Viking staging post.

IBT: more French ships appear

1250 AD (Turn 2): capture Yekaterinaburg, leave Cavs in our core just in case the French land; more railing, rushing and moving troops.

IBT: Zzzz

1255 AD(Turn 1): move troops across to Viking island – don’t risk the Armies yet as I want to see the Navy situation; more railing.

IBT: The Galleons are not attacked

1260 AD (Turn 2): Land troops safely; scouting Ironclads see no ships around the Viking island so risk an Army in 1 of the Galleons.

IBT: Zzzz

1265 AD (Turn 3): Land Army by Haraei bombard but all miss so wait for next turn.

IBT: French land a Cavalry by Delhi.

1270 AD (Turn 4): Kill French Cav by Delhi, loosing 1 Cav; capture Hareid for the loss of 1 Cav, but have to use the Army as it’s full of Rifles; we’re lucky and the Harbour is not destroyed; move on Molde, but that has Rifles too so don’t attack; found a couple more cities to claim tiles.

IBT: French land 3 Cavs by Delhi.

1275 AD (Turn 5): Lose 2 Cavs killing the French Cavs by Delhi; land another Army on the Viking Island; Germans and Vikings will talk but won’t give us anything for Peace.

IBT: Zzzz

1280 AD (Turn 6): capture Molde – we now own the island; move Galleons to the island to allow troops to be shipped to the mainland.

IBT: Zzzzz

1285 AD (Turn 7): troop movements and railing – we now have a basic rail backbone.

IBT: Vikings attack Delhi from the sea, we lose 1 of the Cavs I put in the city in readiness. French land a Cav by delhi.

1290 AD (Turn 8): Kill French Cav by Delhi; mis click Galleon with Army to land next turn so unload Army on Viking continent rather than leave it exposed in a Galleon next to a Viking Ironclad.

IBT: Zzzzz

1295 AD (Turn 9): The Army survives, just, move Galleon back for another.

IBT: Grrr, we lose the Army to a French Rifle, Viking recapture Haride from the sea with Beserks, Germans land 2 Cavs by Molde; Viking Ironclads sink our Galleons by Haride

1300 AD (Turn 10): retake Haride, but having lost the Galleons cannot reinforce the Army until more get there; kill the German Cav; railroad.

Treasury: 539gold + 362gpt, Electricity due in - (0&#37

Post-turn: There is an Ironclad and 2 Galleons by Hlobane 2, the Galleons could be loaded this turn, there is an Ironclad in position by the island that provides protection at the other side, I did not load them up as I did not wish to commit the next player with the Viking Ironclad on the prowl. There are several more Galleons on their way to the island (I think I stopped any automoves). There’s troops on the island including a Settler I was going to use to found a city where the Army is as a beachhead. The rail backbone certainly helps troop movement. I haven’t done any MM yet this turn (there will probably be lots) and have left gold for rushes. There’s 1 Army on our continent near Thebes. Most of the Workers are in stacks for railing in 1 turn, but there are still an odd few scattered about. I have left Delhi empty to concentrate attacks there as the AI seems to like it, but you will have to watch for Vikings and move troops in to defend from Beserks.

Htadus (up next)
Tone
tao
DBear
Furiey (just played)

The Save

 

[Tone]

I have left Delhi empty to concentrate attacks there as the AI seems to like it, but you will have to watch for Vikings and move troops in to defend from Beserks.

Possibly a (very) stupid suggestion but are we better off leaving it undefended, the Vikings take it and then we take it back with cavs next turn. We are unlikely to lose troops that way. (or failing that don't build that worker so that we get the city defensive bonus.)

(I'll take a proper look tomorrow...)

 

[Htadus]

Possibly a (very) stupid suggestion but are we better off leaving it undefended, the Vikings take it and then we take it back with cavs next turn. We are unlikely to lose troops that way. (or failing that don't build that worker so that we get the city defensive bonus.)

I think it would be a great idea but after we spend some of that cash. By the way, Can we not draft some rifles in tax cities?

We can use couple of squads of draftees on the rail and shadow ships. I've had some good luck with that in the past. typically I would have about 3 groups of 3-4 units, all drafted. Each turn when there ships are within range I park them in nearest 3 Cities.

I will download and comment later.

Also I would like to open a second front else where now. Most of the enemy units are now heading north, so why not open a second front in the south?

I wish you all Happy New Years.

 

[Furiey]

You will need to get this front established before you get a second going, but you will see that when you load the save. Now that there are rails connecting most of our empire you will not need to leave so many troops about, and don't forget that there is an Army there to use that won't fit into Galleons. I do not know if this will give enough troops for a second front though.

 

[Htadus]

Got it and looked at the game. I see what you mean about establishing the beach head.

I see these 10 turns as follows.

Railroading, building more units and workers.
Establish a front.

Are you guys sure about not going after Replaceable Parts? We are not going to get it from them and those artilary units will be great in these tight cities.

What do you think about drafting in unproductive cities?

What about combat settlers and razing?

Please comment and I will play tomorrow night.

 

[Tone]

My views are:

Are you guys sure about not going after Replaceable Parts? We are not going to get it from them and those artilary units will be great in these tight cities.

...but 18 turns for electricity and no cash for rushing followed by a similar number of turns for Rep Parts will be far too long. We should be looking to finish this with cavs, using the cash to short rush units, settlers and possibly the occasional bit of culture in cases where it'll be more economic than using settlers.

What do you think about drafting in unproductive cities?

I don't see why not. I'd keep it in moderation though so as to still allow the use of taxmen rather than clowns-especially in recently captured towns that may already have a degree of draft unhappiness already. Also consider that we might still want to cash rush settlers from captured towns when we get close to the domination limit.

What about combat settlers and razing?

Combat settlers is fine. I really don't see why we'd need to raze though. Our culture is still more than 50% greater than the Vikings so I'd say we tolerate any flips and try not to station armies in high risk areas.

 

[Furiey]

I agree with Tone's comments. Have fun Htadus.

 

[tao]

Hello everybody,

I'm back from a much longer than anticipated vacation trip and see that quite a lot has happened - both in the game and in real life of some team members.

Looking at the save (and CivAssist) I had the short idea of making peace getting communism. This will improve our empire's economy. But the I saw Tone's comment about cash rushing cavs, hoping to finish before the AIs get infantry. And I tend to agree. Communism would allow pop rushing, but only slow units. We don't want them. And it probably will be quite some turns for the government change.

PS: Furiey, Tone: I recently bought a Siemens washing machine. They offer lifetime warrantee against flooding.

PPS: We need rifles to defend our cavs.

 

[Htadus]

Hello everybody,

I'm back from a much longer than anticipated vacation trip and see that quite a lot has happened - both in the game and in real life of some team members.

Looking at the save (and CivAssist) I had the short idea of making peace getting communism. This will improve our empire's economy. But the I saw Tone's comment about cash rushing cavs, hoping to finish before the AIs get infantry. And I tend to agree. Communism would allow pop rushing, but only slow units. We don't want them. And it probably will be quite some turns for the government change.

PPS: We need rifles to defend our cavs.

I thought the same about Communism with one difference. We will be able to build more units faster with other cities getting more usable shields. Any way during my play (I am at turn 8) they wanted peace couple of times but will not give up communism.

I used several rifles as defenders in the captured Reykjavik and on the second front near Heidleburg (we had to withdraw after killing about 12 cavs and 6 zerks, and only loosing 4 cavs because all the units were redlined and the rifle died. Anyway, now I know why Furiey said "Have fun Htadus". It has been a killing field in front of Reyk. By the way single zerk defended and killed one of our Army unit with 10 hp . Sorry and a single zerk with 1 hp killed nearly 3 cavs from a ship. What are the odds ? Vikings are daring for sure and I have a newfound respect for zerks.

Anyways team I think we have much to gain by going commie. Think about it.

Anyways I will finish my turn tonight and will post.

 

[Htadus]

Summary: There was a great on slaught during first several turns after taking Reykjavik. We lost one of the armies . We now have 5 Viking cities in the Eropean front. I am leaving 955 gold that should be used to rush units before pressing enter. There will be 3 galleys available. I switched the market in Madras to a Cav which should be rushed next turn. We need to re establish the ship chain. The Galley above Hareid can drop units in Reyk and the settler in the galley is to settle on the tile 2 west and one south of Heidleburg which would make our assult on that city easy there were two rifles there when our botched attempt to take the city took place. Iclads were hell on our units. I rushed several I cads of our own but they are all dead except 1. Last two turns there were only 1 cav attack. The cannons are unprotected since I wanted to protect the Army with the Rifle. The Siphai Killer's Army is stationed in Helipolis.


1300 AD (Turn 0): Mm'ed cities to grow with out loosing tax revenue. Drafted one unit. All the other cities that were qualified had better use for there people. Loaded up 2 gallies and moved it to Scandanavia. Rush Rifle,harbor and Galley.
IBT: 2 Viking Ironclads move toward old Russian area, the viking galley with 1 IClad escort going north along Zulu-German sea (Z-G see). Viking IClad sinc empty Galley.

1305 AD (Turn 1): Delhi:Worker>Rifle, Cap, Ulundi:Cav>Cav, Konya:Rax>Cav. Our IClad Kill the Viking IClad. Harbor>Galley. Galley>Galley. Rifle>Rax. Moving units. Landed units to join Army.
IBT:VIking Icalds bombard old Russian town.

1310 AD (Turn 2): Many builds. Move units next to Reykjaik. Rush more units;including a IClad. Alot of RRoading.
IBT: French cavs killed 2 of ours and we 3 of them. Our cav kill attacking cav but get killed by a MI. 3 Viking Icads move near landing site with a Gallion.

1315 AD (Turn 3): Many builds. We take Reykjavik. Kill off all the units nearby. Bring another 12 units over.
IBT: Fr.IClad kill one galley, 1 Cav kill zerk defending and another die to a zerk. 11 German and 9 French cavs park in front of Reyk.

1320 AD (Turn 4): More cavs, Rax and 2 workers built. Attack force move closer. Killed one Iclad and loose another. Cannons reduce the French and cavs kill em all. Killed another 9 German units. Second group land by Heidleburg.
IBT: More bombardment in old Russian area. 3 cavs and the rifle kill 5 cavs but die. Germans capture 4 cannons. 2 cavs, 1 zerk, 1 rifle, 2 musketeers and 5 more units park next to Reyk. Zerk drop one army to 6 bars.

1325 AD (turn 5): More units. Landed 4 cavs and captured our cannons and bombard Heidleburg. Alot of worker action. We killed many units near Reyk. Zerk killed the attacking good army???? Rush many cavs.
IBT: More units move next to Reyk. 3 zerk die and 1 kill a cav near Heidleburg.

1330 AD (Turn 6): 12 more units loaded. Pulling back the Heidleburg team . More worker action. Killed the remaining seige units. I need to sleep.
IBT: More units showed up at the front.

1335 AD (Turn 7): We killed about all but 2 units nearby. All our the units are redlined or yellow except army.
IBT: Army killed about 6 units and redlined to 2 bars. French land a Ecav near Pusan. 5 more units surround Reyk.

1340 AD (Turn 8): 16 fresh units land. Bombard units down to red and kill with Cavs. Kill the Ecav with our Ecav...No GL. We take Aarhus. Rush 3 more cavs now that we have another galley.
IBT: Aghhh....Lost 4 cavs and a galley to french IClad. Aarhus cav kil the last shipboard zerk. Viking Galleys are going away.

1345 AD (Turn 9): We take Trodenheim . Odense is down to two defenders and we have cannons standing there.
IBT: Single German Cav take Trodenheim. Vikes land zerk next to Pusan.

1350 AD (Turn10): We take Trodenheim back with Ecav and no leader. We redline the two defenders in Odense, the new Viking Cap, and take the City. The army and 3 other cavs take Bergen which is the new Viking Cap. Siphai Killer's Army kill the Zerk. Alot of worker action.

Tone (up next) - there are no runaway/automated units
tao
DBear
Furiey
Htadus(just played)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm11/tao_SG011_AD1350_01.SAV