SGOTM 11 - Team Newbie

Erm... they are the beyond civ rules not the GOTM rule set.

In most of GOTM's I (and I am sure almost all of the more serious players) abuse every one of those - and lets not get started on tech tricking which can be far more unbalancing! :)
 
Mm, most peculiar. I would guess Whomp is dictating a code of conduct particular to his team.
But I'll try and find the SGotM rules page. We tend to assume that we are playing by the same ruleset as GotM, but it isn't necessarily the case...
 
I have downloaded the save, but I won't play until tomorrow (Wednesday) night I think.

I've also poked around the SGOTM reference thread again, and I'm pretty confident that the only discussion of banned/permitted exploits is the reference to the GOTM rules which, as Wardancer points out, allows some stuff that would make even Tony Blair think twice.
Well ultimately I'm not going to expect anyone to do anything that's against their religion (except getting Taxpayer to do micro :whipped: ), but I'll warn you all now that if I get the chance on my turnsets, domestic resources are likely to get disconnected, ROPs will get raped, and the AI will pay full market value for our techs.
If any of that seems a bit beyond the pale, consider that our victory over the AI is a foregone conclusion. The real competition is between us and the other teams, and I know that those guys will be squeezing the game just as hard...
 
socralynnek said:
330 BC (3) - France lands an archer near Tugela.
The Vikings have send an archer too. Lose a Regular MI vs him (regular).
Germany has send two horses, but we can deal with them.
Again about 10 Elite wins without getting a leader.
I am amazing about the west troop's land, I wonder whether there are short-path exist which we don't find, of course, we needn't worry about it now.
and
I wonder whether the militaristic trait is function. :(
 
Sorry that I didn't make a pic, but the short path ia right there near Tugela.

AFAIK, concerning exploits the GOTM ruleset is in place (and I am also pretty confident) and ship chaining, disconnecting etc. is allowed there. Somehow this game is all about using exploits (tricking AI into declaring war and not paying for techs)

We have a decent amount of mney, so disconnecting / reconnecting will be fine, especially with Knight that we hopefully get soon.
 
socralynnek said:
Somehow this game is all about using exploits (tricking AI into declaring war and not paying for techs)
I fully agree this, we should use all tricks and exploits except those prohibitive :D
such as massive troops magicly jump to the other continents. I think this maybe use in this game later.
however,
competition should be equally, since ther other team should do under gotm rule(same as sgotm), so do we.
 
Okay, nearly done guys - a turn or two to go. I'll finish up tonight and post a full writeup, but the basic news is that we are currently at peace with the Middle-east, and at war with all the other blocs. We have founded four new towns so far, and captured (only :sad: ) one. We have an FP :woohoo: and almost full control of the isthmus. We are about to research Chivalry and have enough cash to upgrade 7 or 8 knights. I wonder how much use these will be. I am having some trouble with military operations in this game; being at war with so many AI means that even though they are individually weak, they send a lot of units through from all different directions, so most of our military is tied up just picking them off as they approach. I can't get enough units together to form a proper stack to go and steal an AI capital (and Beijing is practically undefended by the way) :mad:. I think we need to start thinking about ROP rapes, but I suspect that the more often we give people peace and then dow on them within 20 turns, the harder it becomes to get peace in the first place...
 
From my point of view this will change once we have some Knight armies, they alone can take normally defended cities and hold them afterwards.
I don't know whether ROPrapes will be of much use, maybe once we face muskets with Knights, or if we want a wonder or such, I guess we can ROP rape someone without losing rep similar to how we get our techs.
 
Yes, the rep-safe ROP abuse is something we should plan for becasue it allows us to carry out relatively small scale attacks on the AI, where otherwise we would save our ROP rep for a single crushing blow on one or more civs simultaneously. Although we should try to do some of them too :).
So, we do something like give peace to the orientals, get some ROPs, and march fairly small stacks to Delhi and Beijing, and then BAM!
I'm thinking about it right now becasue there are three Korean archers and a Chinese horse bearing down on Najran, and I don't think we have enough local military to hold them off - this kind of attack is the general situation across our Oriental front. Small groups of units, including Japanese ancient cavs, keep approaching, and in dealing with them we are delayed from engaging in real military action, as well as losing occasional units.
 
We are uploaded at 10ad, and we have laid on an extra 80 tiles of territory, taking us past team klarius and the X-Nuts :dance:. We are still last in score though. And as for culture, I would assume that klarius has Artemis. We haven't really discussed these wonders, but in our game Artemis and Pyramids both went to the Caucasians. This is a pretty devastating blow to our strategy. I wonder if the top teams deliberately gave their local AIs an easy ride to try and make sure they were built on Alpha. I wonder if we should switch our attention to invading the Beta continent and taking these wonders. Discuss...

Anyway, here is the current extent of the Newbie empire:
Team_Newbie_SG011_0010ad.JPG


Note that there are three Middle-eastern towns in our northern desert. I have also highlighted three locations in which the AI will be trying to settle. We have units (slaves) blocking the potential settle point at the end of the isthmus. Arabia does have a settler in the area, and obviously it is crucial for our troop movement that we do not allow them to found on or near our road.

So the roster...
PaperBeetle - just played
TaxPayer / Wardancer - next up / on deck
... I'm not sure if you guys swapped permanently or temporarily.
archphoenix -
Bucephalus - on hold
socralynnek -
 
210 bc
There are plenty of middle-eastern troops approaching Najran. I can safely pick off an Egyptian archer with a horse, so I do that.
Stop mining the iron as I am going to unhook it at some point.
Set Zimbabwe to build a 1-turn impi. I am going to run it as a 4-turn horse/settler combo between sizes 3.5 and 5.5.

Interturn
Lose a mace in Hangchow, but get 1 elite win.
Arabia and India agree peace, which causes India to dow us. As they have a couple of archers next to Umtata, they attack, and we get another elite win.

190 bc
Some German horses approach Bapedi; kill one and push the other back, losing an archer in the process.
Pillage the iron and begin rehooking. Start chopping Zimbabwe's forest - might as well see what is under it. Hills or mountains make better growth tiles anyway.
Elite sword in Najran produces a great leader. [party]
Army or FP? I figure we might as well try and get the FP up to maximise the benefit of our golden age, plus we are a bit short of decent units to put in an army - it isn't until knights that an army really becomes an unstoppable killing machine. But the towns on the eastern front aren't good enough for an FP. The place is just a desert. The leader needs to go back to Zululand, and the best way to do that is to clear away those Chinese towns.
The middle-eastern bloc is about to overrun Najran, so give Cath peace, swapping the widely-known Feudalism for Republic.
Embassies with Korea and China reveal that Seoul has 4 spears and an archer in defense, and Beijing has just 2 spears. Investigate China's isthmus towns for small change. Both have only a single defender, but China does have The Wall. Well anyway, it's war time again...
Use gpt to get Monotheism and treasury from Korea, and treasury from China.
Kill an Indian archer in the open, but it doesn't cause a bloc dow. Natch. Do I have to kill their units in their territory? I send some troops down to squat outside Bangalore.
Now that we have Monotheism, it seems like we should research hard for Chivalry; max science gives it in 10 turns.

Interturn
When the AIs turn comes around, we get dows from China and Korea, supporting their bloc. I don't know why the dow came through now. Is it because I now have troops in Oriental territory?

170bc
Move a scout onto the iron. His sole purpose in life is to unhook it every so often.
On the isthmus, we autoraze Tatung, but Tsientsin proves a tougher nut to crack, eating the horse I sent against it.

Interturn
China drops another settler combo onto the isthmus. Do these people not learn?!

150 bc
Kill the remaining German horse from a couple of turns ago.
Enslave the Chinese settler. Thank you Mao.
Autoraze Tsientsin - the isthmus is clear again, but the road is broken. The leader can finally head off west.

Interturn
The chop at Zimbabwe is complete, and reveals a non-bonus grassland. How disappointing.

130 bc
Capture Bangalore, which was defended by 3 spears. Capture 8 slaves at the same time; move 6 out to build a road, and they reveal a Japanese ancient cavalryman ready to grab the slaves. Taking quite a risk, I send an elite impi to go and stand in the way.

Interturn
Toku suggests we give him Monotheism for peace. I suggest he gives us all his towns. No compromise is reached.
As expected, the ancient cavalry attacks the impi, but in a surprising turn of events, fails to kill it! Go impi go!
That's good, but then a stack of 2 swords, a horse and 2 archers all arrive next to Bangalore.

110 bc
Found Isepezi bridging the southern lake and coast. The leader arrives riht on cue, and rushes FP there; the site has fresh water, a couple of beegees, some mountains - generally a good location for a solid town.
2 elite wins, 1 elite loss. Our units in Bangalore distinguish themselves, and the Japanese stack is destroyed.

Interturn
Japan drops a settler combo onto the isthmus. The generosity of these people knows no bounds. :lol:
Mao offers us peace. he would pay his whole treasury, but I want to fight on until he offers towns.

90 bc
2 elite wins.
Sink a French galley over on the coast of Beta. We also have two galleys on our south coast hunting down a Japanese galley in the area.

70 bc
Sink the Japanese galley snooping around our coast.
2 elite wins, 1 elite loss.

Interturn
America drops off two axes west of Bapedi. How comical.

50 bc
Lose a galley trying to sink the American galley that dropped off the axes. That will teach me to try to attack an empty galley: the whole point of galley v galley manouvres is to try to kill the full ones to get a better expected shields lost ratio.
2 elite wins.

Interturn
Lose 1 elite to an ancient cavalry. I am killing those things, but losing units in the process. This is not an advantageous way to wage war.

30 bc
Sink an English galley off our west coast.
3 elite wins. Kill the American axe landing party with laughable ease.
Bring the lux slider up to 10%, and start pushing horses out of mil pol positions in Zululand, and up to the northeast.
Najran is in severe danger of falling, and the war of attrition we have been fighting just to protect our four eastern front towns is eating units faster than we build them, even in golden age. I have to give the Orientals peace - Mao will still pay his whole treasury for it.
Now I can give Toku Republic (only two civs don't have it) for ivory, gpt and his treasury. In fact we had war happiness from at least one of the Orientals, so the ivory is important in keeping our people happy. So this deal will have a bearing next time we attack the Orientals; we shouldn't use Japan to trigger the MPP, and we should remember to check our empire for unhappiness once it is done.

Interturn
Discover Chivalry, and start a min run on Invention.
Upgrade 5 horses to knghts from the big picture.
The FP's borders pop. Should be good for our territory graph. :)

10 bc
Upgrade 2 more horses. Mounted units keep pushing east out of the core and towards the eastern front.

10 ad
Upgrade 2 more horses. There is only 1 non-elite horse left.
Pillage the iron and start rehooking it; it will become available again from the interturn of 50/70ad.
Most other units are still free to move.

A round-up of the empire puts us at +60 food and 88 spt, net of corruption.
We make 132 commerce, plus 3 from a scientist and 6 from Japan. 35 of this goes in luxuries and building maintenance.
 
I'm free to play this weekend if Wardancer wants to resume the original schedule?

Thoughts on tactics please...
 
I hope our regent players know how connect/disconnect works. Take care that there are enough workers to pillage and reconnect iron in the same turn.
Probably we won't research any other tech at more than 0% for the rest of the game. We get our techs by peace or by fake gpt treaties.
And with Knights vs spears we should manage to become much stronger than the others soon. But for that we must be constantly signing the AIs against each other.

paperBeetle, yopu are right: MPP gets triggered a) when we attack/pillage in THEIR territory (defensive fighting is ok) b) a unit of ours is standing in their territory when it's the AI's turn.

I would like to stick to the original roster cause I think it is better if the lower level players (I don't say weaker!) don't play directly after each other.
So, Taxpayer'sMoney, it's your turn!

Next army should be filled with only Knights, don't mix it!
 
socralynnek said:
Next army should be filled with only Knights, don't mix it!

If we plan on overseas wars do we really want to fill our army with knights? This will make it impossible to transport the army by galley. Much better to ship over and then fill with knights! But by the looks of things there's plenty of warring to be done on Alpha continent so perhaps we do concentrate there first?
 
socralynnek said:
I hope our regent players know how connect/disconnect works. Take care that there are enough workers to pillage and reconnect iron in the same turn.
why we need do it in the same turn?
 
I think we have enough targets on our own continent to fill the army. It will boost our conquering. The next one maybe should work overseas but until that normal knights there must be enough. I think we should significantly hurt our neighbours first before we start attacking over sea
 
archphoenix said:
why we need do it in the same turn?

cause we want to upgrade the horses to Knights every turn. And we might want to still build Pikes/MI in other towns the normal way.

At least we should be able to do it in turn if we need some instant upgrade/rushed pike or so somewhere.
 
The iron is on a mountain, which makes it quite a worker investment, and we're a bit short of workers right now. So there are currently 3 doing reconnect duties. Add another worker and slave and we can have the iron hooked at some point every turn. i.e...
turn 1: starts hooked. Upgrade horses. Then set knight, pike and mace builds where we want them. Disconnect the iron and start rehooking - gang says two turns. Then set axe and horse builds where we want them.
turn 2: starts unhooked. Gang says one turn. Move units for upgrade to barracks, but fortify instead of upgrading.
interturn 2: Gang finishes the job first. Then the interturn starts looking at towns, so first time you get taken to the city screen, zoom around all towns upgrading units where you can.
Back to turn 1...

But really it isn't important. It is a long way from our core to the front line, with several barracks along the way, so if a unit goes a couple of turns without iron, that's okay. It will be properly equipped by the time it gets to the front.

Of course the upgrade won't be our primary source of military strength any time soon. We only make enough cash to upgrade one horse per turn. Should we try and build Leonardo ourselves? I would think it is easier to steal it, but we haven't had much luck with AI wonder builds so far.
 
socralynnek said:
cause we want to upgrade the horses to Knights every turn. And we might want to still build Pikes/MI in other towns the normal way.

At least we should be able to do it in turn if we need some instant upgrade/rushed pike or so somewhere.

why don't we pillage the horse? :confused:
we lose a tile 2f2s3c, but since the city has no fresh water(can't grow more), so we can safely move the pop to a mined hill,
that is 1f3s2c, we still get 10+ sheilds per turn and only
lost 1 commerce per turn, but we save 3 workers per turn.
and we can leave the second horse unconnected unharmful.

edit:
ok, without horse we can't build even horseman :blush:
 
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