SGOTM 11 - Wotan

[Kulko]

@ Archer
I would attack the horse as it might cause all sorts of unnecessary problems when it runs wild towards our settler.

@Ulundi,
I think Size 3 is too small for building settlers. We can always place one more MP there or raise Lux. Ulundi is our best place for horsemen production now and should be used as much as possible for this.

 

[dmanakho]

Agree with Kulko again...
no settler build in Ulundi... we need to start bumping up the military production.

 

[schmiddi]

Okay, I played thge turn, but as i was in a hurry this morning I neither uploaded the save nor have the notes for the turnlog with me.

traded the worker for HBR and in 1525 another AI offered a worker, got it for 116g. the horseman first moved into the forest north of the mountains and then attacked our archer, no promotion. The barb camp spawned a new horseman, our archer has 3 HP, iirc.

Maybe we shoould make more detailed plans on which tiles to improve how with all that workers around.

 

[schmiddi]

So finally the turnlog.

1750 rearranged citizens according to spreadsheet

IBT Z finishes warrior, starts settler
U finishes barracks, starts curragh

1725 lake archer moves N
warrior in Z fortifies
worker near Z starts roading
warrior near HT kills barb warrior, two HP (is there a rule about how often a barb camp spawns units?)
scout moves SE

IBT a japanese warrior meets us
ottomans get 25g
egypt has poly

1700 lake archer moves NW
HT warrior moves NE to heal
sold wheel to osman for 25g
Scout moves E

IBT (-)

1675 Archer moves N
HT warrior waits to heal
scout moves S

IBT Hlob finishes worker, starts barracks

1650 several worker assignments

IBT india wants us to leave his territory, okay as we are just on transit
egypt denmands 25, am unsure at this point and give in to her demands

1625 shift citizens in U to avoid shield wasting, get an additional beaker
archer moves E
HT warrior raids barb camp

IBT a barb horseman attacks our lake archer, we win
U finishes curragh, starts archer
switch citizens back

1600 wounded archer moves on mountain, sees barb camp
HT warrior moves NW

IBT (-)

1575 let archer rest to heal
trade arabian worker for HBR

IBT barb horsman moves to forrest N of mountain

1550 trade HBR for ottoman worker
let archer rest to heal

IBT barb horseman attacks archer, we win

1525 switched citizens in B to speed up archer
bought another worker from russia for 116g, initially wanted 130g
founded Intombe on the green M position

IBT HT finishes warrior, starts barrack

1550 did not touch anything

sidenote: made a mistake in moving the settler, which led to a delay of one turn in founding Intombe


Definitely not a good turnset, but i hope i did not ruin too much.
Things I've learned: I have to prepare a much more detailed plan (including what-ifs) before starting, Ive wasted too much time ingame and between turns thinking about what to do next.
I was a fool not to use CivAssist earlier. I knew it existed, but never bothered to dld it.

 

[Wotan]

Just from reading your log the mistakes you are so concerned about seems to be minor, one turn delay for the settler is no biggie. So:

EDIT: Not that good a job I am afraid. You forgot to move the citizen working a mountain to the mountain goat in 1525BC so the settler will be delayed by a turn since it will have 29 shiuelds when it grows to size 4. It is so simple to check the citizens in Z. and in the current plan it is only needed two turns, just before the Archer is built and the turn it is built. Should have left the game after 8 turns I guess instead of rushing through the last two turns. Killer, you need to run Z for four turns now and make sure it ends the four turn period growing to size 4. Will check the spreadsheet for an alternative buildplan. I thought the current plan was so simple this could not happen...

The worker actions is a bit odd too. One slave have moved all the way across the map and to a tile west of Horsetown? Couldn't he find anything useful to do with his actions en route? And the slave ontop of the goat. I thought we had agreed worker actions to either mine or road that tile was better used around the other towns and that we had finished developing the tiles used by Z. We need to think about what we do with worker actions they can help us if used wisely but just moving them around we could as well merge them to towns to save us the time to aimlessly move them about each turn. (joke but with some seriousness behind it...) Hlobane is extremely overdeveloped, no attempt to start irrigating towards our plains dominated towns, no chops to boost and hekp us quickly finish barracks or archers in towns.

Workers should in an optimal situation finish an improvement at the same time it is needed by a town. Hlobane has at least one tile too many improved, Ulundi is missing one, forests are not considered for copping and irrígating to get water to the sheep (extra food and a potential secondary settler factory) and other plains around Bapedi is not initiated.

City management, food first shields second, Intombe is a typical example of failed priorities, working a forest for 2 shields and one food is just wrong. You work it to gain as many food as possible and shields second. As is the situation at Bapedi. Working a forest. When Hlobane could shift from the sheep to one of the two available mined BGs. MICROMANAGEMENT DURING THE OPENING STAGES OF THE GAME IS WHAT WINS A GAME OR MAKES IT IRREVERSIBLY LOST. (oops, sorry this was not intentionally spelled with capital letters)

One of the opening requests was to check each and every town before hitting return so we do not make these simple mistakes. It is another thing to micromanage after the initial expansion but doing so many mistakes in the opening stages are so easy to avoid by thinking a bit before hitting return. Sorry but opening the game and checking the situation was a bit of a disappointment.

Upside is, you bought three workers and that is a huge upside!!! And we have poly! So now it is all a question of whether we get a free tech from philo or not. We might be in Monarvhy at the end of the next turnset.

On a sidenote; I have no idea how often a brab camp spawn units. Maybe one of the academy posts could enlighten us about it?



Roster
Killer_Klien up
Wotan on deck
TimBentley
Kulko
Dmanakho
Schmiddi just played

 

[TimBentley]

Disbanding Ulundi's warrior in Zimbabwe would be a possibility.

Probably the archer should move to Zimbabwe for a turn; I don't feel like risking losing 33g.

To avoid wastage (this assumes switching the gem to the goat; other changes don't affect commerce), the next three turns should be 100% research (14g), 80% (12g), and 60% (9g). (I know a lot of people would waste 2g instead)

I'll test regarding barb camp spawning.

 

[TimBentley]

I would like to test more regarding horses and galleys, and figuring out why there is such variety in initial barb appearance, but here are my results so far:

A new barb camp will appear given sufficient space (in a spot no unit with attack or defense or borders can see, I assume) if there are fewer camps than number of players (haven't tested what happens if a player is eliminated). A new barb unit (this may change when they start producing new stuff) may appear (in one test it took four turns) when there are less than 2, 3, or 4 (for roaming, restless, raging respectively) barbs per camp (edit: this may be 2/3/4 barbs per number of players).

 

[Wotan]

Disbanding Ulundi's warrior in Zimbabwe would be a possibility.

Probably the archer should move to Zimbabwe for a turn; I don't feel like risking losing 33g.

To avoid wastage (this assumes switching the gem to the goat; other changes don't affect commerce), the next three turns should be 100% research (14g), 80% (12g), and 60% (9g). (I know a lot of people would waste 2g instead)

Yes, on all three issues. The turn lost if we do not follow Tim's suggestion is so much more expensive in the long run so a definite yes on disbanding the warrior. So set the citizen on the mountain goat as per the spreadsheet and disband the warrior.

And the Archer should head back to Z to help out against the Barbs. And eventually move north to take out the camp.

I too like to squeeze every gold/beaker/shield out of every town. So a definite yes on using the science slider to help us finish research without any wastage.

 

[Wotan]

I have had a thorough look at the save and suggest the following remedies to help the current situation.
1. Suggest we follow TimBentley's ideas about disbanding a warrior to make sure the Settler finishes the same turn we get philo and have Z. stay on the settler factory plan. Send the Bapedi Warrior to disband and remember to switch from working a mountain gems to work the goats. If we get Monarchy as a free tech and revolt that turn (do not revolt when asked about it in the IBT sequence though, we want the Settler to finish in Z. Wait to revolt until you have your turn active.)the plan is in the bin so it might be the last build according to our spreadsheet layout.
2. Move Archer back to Z. to help defend against the Barb. HM. BTW, did the barb come from the west or the north through the desert or directly from another mountain? The Archer should go Barb.Camp hunting after disposing of the HM and knowing the general direction of the Camp would help.
3. The Worker roading E of Bapedi is a bit exposed, we really need to get some protection to it if it is to venture out onto the landbridge. Suggest we take the Warrior in Hlobane and send it as initial protection. Then on the following turn send the Archer built in Ulundi to add to this protection.
4. Map shows what tiles to work for each town in SE. Intombe should continue working the forest for another turn and then change so as to even out the food.
5. Worker actions:
Two workers just finished improving the tile W of Hlobane should go to one grassland each, road them and then join up next to the lake to irrigate towards the sheep plains. We are hopefully soon in monarchy so food from irrigated grassland is fast becoming important.
The Worker next to Bapedi continue roading the land bridge.
The Worker roading N of Intombe go to forest E of Intombe and chop it, switch Intombe to a Barracks to take advantage of the chop.
Slave in the same tile start mining and send the slave on top of the goat mountain to help in this, it will arrive just as the first has 6 turns to go and will half this to 3 turns.
Slave next to Horsetown mine, send the Worker roading mountian to help when it has finished the current task.
6. Next Settler, found town on horse SW of lake? Or the location south of this?
Good luck Killer!

EDIT: @Schmiddi: The things that went wrong in your turnset was not that hard to fix and the time lost probably not worth more than a turn in the end if that so it was thankfully pretty easy to fix. Especially Tim's idea of disbanding a Warrior helped us avoid bigger problems from the MM mistake.

 

[schmiddi]

Sorry for the hassle I caused.

About the Hlobane workers: I don't like the idea of moving one of them south.
If our archer attacks the barb camp and that fails for whatever reason the horse might move to the forrest and from there it wouls easily atracted by the worker.

 

[Wotan]

Sorry for the hassle I caused.

About the Hlobane workers: I don't like the idea of moving one of them south.
If our archer attacks the barb camp and that fails for whatever reason the horse might move to the forrest and from there it wouls easily atracted by the worker.

No biggie. You live and learn... Just emphasises the need to be careful when playing the first 100 turns or so of every game of Civ. The first phase of the game and your ability to utilize the assets is what decides the outcome.

About the Workers, let's see what happens when the Archer attacks the Barb.Camp. He is still to act this turn. If he wins the battle I want us move him to start roading for irrigation.

 

[Killer_Klein]

Ok, I've grabbed the file.

I will post a plan of action sometime tomorrow.

There is no way, I will be able to anything today, because today is going to be the biggest day of my life.

No, I'm not getting married, it's my team's Home Opener!! I have so much prepared and still so much to do and when i pull this off, I will earn much props from my owner.

Wish me luck.

 

[Wotan]

Sounds good. BTW, NHL is pretty big here too since most of the players on the national team plays "over there". I thought the season starts in early october? Just to make you happy I can safely say Leafs is the most popular team among swedes, probably due to a couple of local boys having played there in the past (Salming) or still playing in Sundin's case. Have fun!

 

[Killer_Klein]

Ah, sorry. Let me clear the confusion. I work for an Ontario Hockey League team the Belleville Bulls, I just graduated from college I am not ready for the NHL quite yet. I need a few years of experience under my belt first. The guy that I replaced moved to the Leafs AHL team, the Marlies this year.

 

[schmiddi]

To answer a question from wotan, the abrb horseman near Z came right trough the desert.

 

[TimBentley]

Founding the next city on the horse sounds good.

The AIs should research MM soon, and start on construction after that, so I'd suggest currency as the next research.

Ulundi would require a scientist during anarchy and thus not grow: building a worker there could avoid that, although that would require 3 turns at 4spt, working a forest for a turn, or stealing Intombe's BG for 2 turns.

I would guess the Bantu camp is somewhere in the vicinity of the northernmost iron.

 

[Wotan]

Research at this time in a game with so many AI's and Math having been known for some time. I would actually suggest Literacy as our next tech. It is seldom researched by the AI and we can get a lot out of it. I would guess all other techs are currently being pursued by one AI or more.

 

[dmanakho]

i would also suggest literature for selfresearch and monrachy as free tech per previous discussion

 

[Wotan]

Just a reminder: If you decide to cut the forest east of Intombe and settle on the horse you might want to set the new town to build a palace until the forest is cut, just t make sure the shields end up in Intombe.

@Tim: Not a bad idea to take a Worker from Ulundi, that is if we do get Monarchy and go into anarchy. Since it will be finished in 3 turns, the same as philo we could do it and if we do not get a free tech go to the big picture/F1 and change it into an Archer before leaving the IBT tech dialogue.

 

[Killer_Klein]

Sorry, today was supposed to be a light day at the office but there ended up being more then i thought there was.

Please post some more suggestion for this turn set and i will post my plan of action for tomorrow evening after work, or MAYBE before depending on how busy it is.

Thanks