SGOTM 11 - Wotan

[Wotan]

I moved the Settler too. Option 1 is out, no fresh water. So question now is do we settle on the forest? Or move another tile SE? 10 shields or a turn earlier to settle? We open up more tiles if we go one more tile. What we get instead is a question but we only give up mountains that are of little benefit.

 

[Kulko]

Hmm SGOTM10 looked a whole lot better to me

I am for settling in space, as I think we only gain water tiles anyway. And quick access to te cow should be worth it I think.

But lets wait what the others think.

 

[TimBentley]

I guess that by moving SE we would gain 2 sea (the tile 3SE is particularly difficult to identify), 2 coast, and 1 grass at the expense of 4 mountains and 1 hill. I think settling in place would be good.

 

[Wotan]

If we settle in place we will use 3 tiles, Cow(mined), BG (mined) and the goats to run a settler/archer factory. Giving us a Settler and an Archer every 8 turn cycle. I am of OK with this if it is the opinion of the team majority. I will rework the spreadsheet for such a choice and post it tomorrow morning (CET). The area sort of indicate this is a temporary capital and a palace jump is probable so I guess Zimbabwe will give us Settlers and Archers until it is time to move on.

 

[schmiddi]

I also vote on settling in place.

On the roster: I'd be thankful not to appear to early, as I had to reinstall Civ3 and still have to clean out some localization issues.

 

[Kulko]

Hi Schmiddi, tell me if you have problems. I had to germanize the patch already for the last SGOTM.

@ Wotan, From what we see now, Palace Jumping looks very good to me.

 

[Wotan]

I agree with you about founding Zimbabwe on the first forest.I have now run the speadsheet exercise on it and we have the first settler out in 2800BC, three turns earlier than if we move another tile SE. The Settler/Archer combo is up and running starting in 2510BC after some extra MMing for the Settler finishing that turn. Worker will be ready to focus on new town in 2630BC, I do not think spending 9 turns roading the mountain goats to be worth the benefits, 0.5 gold per turn. We should be able to get more from the worker actions working tiles around other locations. Zimbabwe will only build Settlers/Archers and when the time is right we should just abandon it and set up shop somewhere else. With water both S,E and W we do seem to be on a peninsula with limited expansion potential. And the abundance of hills and mountains are not really helping the situation.

Suggested roster: (have tried to accomodate for requests and have interspaced NA/European players)
Wotan
TimBentley
Kulko
Dmanakho
Schmiddi
Killer_Klein

 

[schmiddi]

A screeenshot of an english unit directory would be nice, so a can check for typos.

@Wotan: especially when setting up plans for others, it would be nice to see where the worker would move to.

 

[Wotan]

@Wotan: especially when setting up plans for others, it would be nice to see where the worker would move to.

I seem to forget not everyone is familiar with Offa's spreadsheet. It is just a planning tool not an order sheet. It is in my opinion an excellent help in planning your opening moves and helps the team discuss different options. It is still possible to understand where the Worker moves since the turn it finish the first mining mission the cow is changed from "cowg" to "cowg m", and the second road/mining mission changes the "bg" to "bg m". These two activites will keep the Worker busy for the first set of turns (first set is 20 turns followed by any number of 10 turn stints until the team might feel it appropriate to shorten it to 5 or so (has happened in a few SGOTMs).

On turn 28 the worker will have finished his chores for the benefit of Zimbabwe and is fee to help the next town develop. But that is a bit premature to discuss I guess.

On the "setting up plans for others"; I understand this is your first SGOTM but if you read though past games and the team threads you will find that SGOTMs are quite different to many "normal" succession games in that individual player influence on the game in progress is limited and that decisions and plans are discussed in detail by the team and executed after thorough scrutiny. It is eg. common practice to stop playing and posting a screenshot and a description of the incident for discussion before moving ahead. Typical situations are tech trading opportunities and spotting things that have an impact on the plans we are currently working with.

So I hope you are OK with this type of gamesituation, each turn set is a team effort even if one player is acting as the temporary "Quartermaster" executing the team plans.

EDIT: Before starting to play we need to be in agreement on tech research too. At the start I gave some thoughts to the issue but no real discussion has been had. Plenty of tribes in the game and all first tier techs are accounted for among the AI. Do we pursue Alphabet at 100% or are we hoping to meet AI's and trade for ita nd hopefully other tier 1 techs? If so maybe we should run 0% research? Thoughts?

 

[Kulko]

Phew the factory looks much easier, this time, once its set up. Only one switch in it.

@Sheet Plan for Zimbabwe look good to me. Lets get forward with it.

@Tech I agree MM to be first priority. And I would rather go full speed. With crowded Map, we might not have anything to trade with the first alliance we meet.

BTW: Do alliance partners know each other from start?

@Military Archers for home, then we will see. I really wonder how this alliance thing will effect the game.

 

[Wotan]

Unfortunately the factory is a bit slower than the one we had in 10.

Will start playing in a couple of hours time.

No idea how the alliances work? Maybe lurking from AlanH or Gyathaar might enlighten us? Though I would not be surprised if it is some time before we meet up with anyone else. Maybe we are on a small island all by ourselves...

 

[Kulko]

Well my guess would be there are 4 islands, all owned by an alliance? And probably we will meet the first of these soon, and have to fight through them for our real core area.

One more question. Wouldn't you feel that connecting the luxury will be worth our time? This should be worth 1 gold every turn, due to reduced taxes. Maybe not in the beginnign, but when our first city reaches size 3 its seems ok with me.

 

[Wotan]

One more question. Wouldn't you feel that connecting the luxury will be worth our time? This should be worth 1 gold every turn, due to reduced taxes. Maybe not in the beginnign, but when our first city reaches size 3 its seems ok with me.

Forgot about that...
Yes it could be worth 1 gold and it should eventually be connected but After the first Archer is built we can use it as a MP to keep Zimbabwe from needing a lux. And the 9 turns is a bit steep, at least as long as we have use for the worker at other chores. But we will have ample opportunity to discuss this at length later on.
Will start playing now.

 

[Wotan]

We meet India and discover we are sooo behind in tech. They are up Alphabet, Bronze Working, Masonry, Ceremonial Burial and The Wheel. We can offer them Pottery though. So I guess they know Japan among others but probably not England, America, Russia and Arabia since they all have Pottery at start. They obviously have plenty of contacts but still no Pottery. I stop and ask about trading, they are willing to give 58 gold for Pottery but no techs are offered. Maybe if we discover a few other tribes (the ones India have met) they will offer up something more appealing? Should I run a few more turns or take the gold? Meeting another two or three should lower the value of their techs so we might get a few techs for Pottery?

EDIT: Forgot to tell you it happened in 3450BC...

 

[Kulko]

Well they have obviously contact to their alliance from the start and traded. SoI guess we just walk around meet this dudes too and hope that lowers the prices far enough for us to buy a tech.

 

[Wotan]

Turn log

0 – 4000BC
Move Scout N and post picture.
Move Settler SE and post new picture. Decision to found Zimbabwe in this location next turn.
Move Worker to Cow.

1 – 3950BC
Zimbabwe founded, Scout started. Alphabet researched at 100%

Worker start road building

Scout discover fresh water in the north. Though it will require a town to bring it to Zimbabwe.

5 – 3750BC
Zimbabwe Scout -> Warrior

New Scout sent east.

6 – 3700BC
Northern Scout discover Land’s End. Northern lands are one big desert…

9 – 3550BC
Zimbabwe Warrior -> Granary

10 – 3500BC
Worker finished mining Cow move to BG.

11 – 3450BC
We meet India and discover we are sooo behind in tech. They are up Alphabet, Bronze Working, Masonry, Ceremonial Burial and The Wheel. We can offer them Pottery though. So I guess they know Japan among others but probably not England, America, Russia and Arabia since they all have Pottery at start. They have plenty of contacts but still no Pottery. I stop and post a question about trading, they are willing to give 58 gold for Pottery but no techs are offered. Maybe if we discover a few other tribes (the ones India have met) they will offer up something more appealing?

16 – 3200BC
Egyptian border appear in N.

18 – 3100BC
We meet the Arabs, they are willing to give us Alphabet and 14 gold for Warrior Code. With 19 turns still to go on Alphabet this is a definite yes. I take the deal. Start researching Writing now.

Scout spot a GH.

19 – 3050BC
Scout pops the GH and we gain a Worker!

20 – 3000BC
Zimbabwe Granary -> Settler

We meet Russians and Koreans.


After action report.
Trading. I have not done any tech trading in 3000BC. I am not sure we should do so yet. I would probably gamble on meeting Egypt before trading since we know they have CB and Masonry from start and have probably traded since then. So if we meet them and are still able to trade with Alphabet (Russians) and Pottery (India) we should be able to bag BW, CB and Masonry for Alphabet and Pottery. India is willing to part with CB now for Pottery and 7 gold. Meeting Egypt before trading would probably save us the gold. Russia offer Masonry for Alphabet and 1 gold.

The question is; do we have the guts to spend another turn or two (or three) finding the Egyptians before trading? Nothing indicates the AI has any direct inclination to trade with what they already have since they must have met up and still sit with the current distribution. My vote is for us to stay calm and await Egypt’s arrival, then stop and discuss any trading.

Builds: Next up is a Settler, then a Barracks and another Settler. Most of the MMing is about gaining extra commerce whenever possible, shields is not a real problem. Working the coast for a few turns (23, 27, 28) is to gain extra commerce since we have a surplus of food and shields from the “normal” tiles we use. The “g” in turn 29 is to gain the commerce from the grassland we are cutting the forest in beginning next turn.

Worker actions: Cut forest, road the tile, then find new mission. Since we have an extra Worker now we could either move to a gems mountain to gain the luxury or move it to the tile SE Zimbabwe to start roading towards the southern peninsula and the “cluster” of towns we will (probably) build there. Second Worker to move towards second town location and start working the tiles there. How they are to be worked is another question and something we need to discuss in details before the next turn set is played.

Next Settler: Where do we place the next town? I have posted a dot map with suggestions for us to discuss. The southern freshwater seems to be easier to link up and that should be one of our missions though maybe not the primary mission. Better make sure we work the important tiles around our next few towns first and just keep it in mind and prepare for it to happen. We are after all planning on dropping Zimbabwe and Palace Jump sometime.

Research: Right now we are running at a low commerce level but that will soon be remedied. So probably best to keep running at the highest percentage possible.

Scouting: Find the Egyptians. Continue mapping the southern peninsula. We met the Indians on the isthmus and they came from the east. The Russians moved into sight from the north, SW of the mountain (N of Mecca).

Situation in the north:

Some dots for potential city placements:

Next turnset (10 turns) and how the Settler/Archer factory is run after TimBentley has set it up: (the action for the Worker in 3000BC (move) has been executed)

Roster:
TimBentley up
Kulko on deck
Dmanakho
Schmiddi
Killer_Klein
Wotan just played

 

[Kulko]

Nicely done Wotan

And again you brought us that early worker. Might as welöl turn that into a habit.

Trading: I must say, I would rather go the save route. Lets take the two techs we can get.

City Placements: Whats your reasoning there? I would but a town N of the sheep on the isthmus to have immediate access to the sheep and a shortcut for our ships.

Research: Agreed on full speed.

 

[schmiddi]

On the "setting up plans for others"; I understand this is your first SGOTM but if you read though past games and the team threads you will find that SGOTMs are quite different to many "normal" succession games in that individual player influence on the game in progress is limited and that decisions and plans are discussed in detail by the team and executed after thorough scrutiny. It is eg. common practice to stop playing and posting a screenshot and a description of the incident for discussion before moving ahead. Typical situations are tech trading opportunities and spotting things that have an impact on the plans we are currently working with.

So I hope you are OK with this type of gamesituation, each turn set is a team effort even if one player is acting as the temporary "Quartermaster" executing the team plans.

I'm definitely OK with that. "setting up plans for others" means diplaying suggestions, if that is easier to understand.

EDIT: Before starting to play we need to be in agreement on tech research too. At the start I gave some thoughts to the issue but no real discussion has been had. Plenty of tribes in the game and all first tier techs are accounted for among the AI. Do we pursue Alphabet at 100% or are we hoping to meet AI's and trade for ita nd hopefully other tier 1 techs? If so maybe we should run 0% research? Thoughts?

In the meantime the "alphabet issue" has been resolved in the meantime, according to your log. How long would you wait for contact with egypt? 10 turns maybe?

Just for clarification: Is it ok for me to dld the save and have a look into it, als loing as I doin't play (unless being on the roster)?

Next City: from first glance, the dark green and blue spots look best.

 

[Wotan]

Nicely done Wotan

And again you brought us that early worker. Might as welöl turn that into a habit..

Thanks! But my initial reaction when the Worker appeared was disappointment. I had hoped for a tech. We are so backwards ATM.

Trading: I must say, I would rather go the save route. Lets take the two techs we can get.

I am not convinced we should play it safe but if it is the opinion of the team so be it.

City Placements: Whats your reasoning there? I would but a town N of the sheep on the isthmus to have immediate access to the sheep and a shortcut for our ships.

If we settle the red, the yellow, three blue and the orange dots we cover all land tiles with our culture. (add a couple in the extreme south to this, like the green on the east coast) We will also have the orange on the desert help us move ships through the isthmus.

 

[Wotan]

In the meantime the "alphabet issue" has been resolved in the meantime, according to your log. How long would you wait for contact with egypt? 10 turns maybe?.

Sorry if you think my span of waiting was too short but I posted the tech question at 10.30AM CET and started playing at 4PM CET so I feel I allowed plenty of time to voice any objections.

The question about waiting for us to encounter egypt; not that many turns we are about 6 tiles from their border (or something like that, I do not have the game open now.) so I would guess we bump into an egyptian within the next few turns.

Just for clarification: Is it ok for me to dld the save and have a look into it, als loing as I doin't play (unless being on the roster)?.

That is the standard procedure as far as I know. I think every player dl's the save and use it as a basis for discussions.

Next City: from first glance, the dark green and blue spots look best.

I think my opition would be red, dark blue, yellow and light blue (south of pink). In that order.