SGOTM 12 - Spooks
- Thread starter AlanH
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Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Note Paris took two turns between the end of the GLib and the start of Leo's. Just enough time for a library. 
Andronicus
Emperor
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2 turns might be too short for a lib - I don't think they MMed Paris to 40spt to get those 80 shields complete...
If we can keep them broke, they can't get muskets while building a wonder even if they sit on salt.
2 turns is definitely too short for 80 shields, but not for 48 shield deity lib
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Wow, thats fast. I expected you to fight an Ancient Cavalry.
I see rotherdam is now in Persian hands.
Units
We have 11 units now and 2 warriors that could be upgraded.
In order to upgrade those units, it would be nice to connect iron to the large island.
We need a harbor in the capital. We need it for happiness anyway.
I would combine this with solving Kyoto's happiness problems, and its gonna cost us 72 science.
If we put the lux slider on 40% for 4 turns, Kyoto had time to produce 12 shields. We can than rushbuild a harbor there and get the luxes over there. If the capital makes his harbor after the 5th boat, it will also be completed in 4 turns.
Of course, these harbors are an investment to make. It will help us upgrading those warriors though without shipping them over. Our boats are going to Paris, so we don't have the capacity to ship them over. If the mission to Paris sails in 2 turns from now, we would like another party to follow soon after.
These warriors can probably best be upgraded in Osaka, the road to the harbor is almost connected. Iron will be there in 4 turns. If The capital builds a galley after the harbor and Teno also makes a dromon, we would have 2 dromons in 6 turns from now and 3 units, more units may be possible if we have gold for upgrading. How to get those warriors on the boats and getting them towards paris may be difficult though.
Paris
The 5th dromon will be ready in 2 turns. Bringing this dromon to the pickup point at Kyoto may take longer than the shortest straight trip to Paris. Even if it gonna go the same route, it needs less time in shallow water.
Therefore, i would place 2 units in Constantinopel that will board the last ship as it is made. Meanwhile, the other boats load at Kyoto. and both will sail of to arive as soon as that last boat could.
Don't worry about that lib too much. That is what we expected anyway. It would just be a bonus if they don't build it.
We still have the gift to Egypt trick up our sleeves if it happens to be needed. Our second party with 3 or 4 units (getting the leader there is no priority yet) Will be about 6 turns later than the first. If the first stack does not provide us the power needed to keep controll of paris and take orleans and we cannot have the stack wait for the second stack without being butchered, we can still do this.
Persia
Persia is now millitary weak to us. Egypt is average. If we ignite a war now, Egypt might win while our goal is to make persia bigger. They have to research gunpowder for us, and who knows someday rep. parts.
Persia supposedly is in its golden age now. If we give it a few it a few turns to regain strength, it may stand better against egypt.
With the dutch i think we can make peace. It could be an option to reignite that war if we didnt need persia to fight egypt. But it is more important for us to get our needed towns than to help persia become big. We can help them later by conquering and gifting nearby towns if we want.
So my suggestion for now is:
Const: 5th dromon(2) - harbor(4) - 6th dromon(6)
Teno: Dromon(5) - Worker (7) - Library
Osaka: Warrior(2) - Harbor (can't grow without it)
Teoti: warrior(mostly to end the damn resistance)
Kyoto: harbor with poprush(4) - Library ?
I expected you to fight an Ancient Cavalry.I see rotherdam is now in Persian hands.
Units
We have 11 units now and 2 warriors that could be upgraded.
In order to upgrade those units, it would be nice to connect iron to the large island.
We need a harbor in the capital. We need it for happiness anyway.
I would combine this with solving Kyoto's happiness problems, and its gonna cost us 72 science.
If we put the lux slider on 40% for 4 turns, Kyoto had time to produce 12 shields. We can than rushbuild a harbor there and get the luxes over there. If the capital makes his harbor after the 5th boat, it will also be completed in 4 turns.
Of course, these harbors are an investment to make. It will help us upgrading those warriors though without shipping them over. Our boats are going to Paris, so we don't have the capacity to ship them over. If the mission to Paris sails in 2 turns from now, we would like another party to follow soon after.
These warriors can probably best be upgraded in Osaka, the road to the harbor is almost connected. Iron will be there in 4 turns. If The capital builds a galley after the harbor and Teno also makes a dromon, we would have 2 dromons in 6 turns from now and 3 units, more units may be possible if we have gold for upgrading. How to get those warriors on the boats and getting them towards paris may be difficult though.
Paris
The 5th dromon will be ready in 2 turns. Bringing this dromon to the pickup point at Kyoto may take longer than the shortest straight trip to Paris. Even if it gonna go the same route, it needs less time in shallow water.
Therefore, i would place 2 units in Constantinopel that will board the last ship as it is made. Meanwhile, the other boats load at Kyoto. and both will sail of to arive as soon as that last boat could.
Don't worry about that lib too much. That is what we expected anyway. It would just be a bonus if they don't build it.
We still have the gift to Egypt trick up our sleeves if it happens to be needed. Our second party with 3 or 4 units (getting the leader there is no priority yet) Will be about 6 turns later than the first. If the first stack does not provide us the power needed to keep controll of paris and take orleans and we cannot have the stack wait for the second stack without being butchered, we can still do this.
Persia
Persia is now millitary weak to us. Egypt is average. If we ignite a war now, Egypt might win while our goal is to make persia bigger. They have to research gunpowder for us, and who knows someday rep. parts.
Persia supposedly is in its golden age now. If we give it a few it a few turns to regain strength, it may stand better against egypt.
With the dutch i think we can make peace. It could be an option to reignite that war if we didnt need persia to fight egypt. But it is more important for us to get our needed towns than to help persia become big. We can help them later by conquering and gifting nearby towns if we want.
So my suggestion for now is:
Const: 5th dromon(2) - harbor(4) - 6th dromon(6)
Teno: Dromon(5) - Worker (7) - Library
Osaka: Warrior(2) - Harbor (can't grow without it)
Teoti: warrior(mostly to end the damn resistance)
Kyoto: harbor with poprush(4) - Library ?
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Yeah. Me too. I was surprised when I moved to the hill N-N of Kyoto and the top defender turned out to be a spear. There seems to be something wrong with your turn 4-9 calculation. In any case, I assume that the clock resets on turn five.Wow, thats fast.
So the plan is Paris? Agreed. I'll work out the best route from Const before starting out. We have no pike right now. A spear could be whipped out of Teno and upgraded. Alternately we could go with ten attackers. My personal choice.
Yep. Anyway we plan on being there before guns so it doesn't really make a difference.
When should the war with France start? Joan is currently paying us 5gpt. It will probably take about fifteen turns to get the five galleys there. It probably should start about halfway through the next turnset.
killercane
Deity
Soon enough to let me in on the action! Hopefully you dont kill them too before my turns!
Andronicus
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,672
I dont have save infront of me now, but could Aztecs have disconnected ivory - that would explain no AC and also we will need to connect it to get ACWow, thats fast.
I see rotherdam is now in Persian hands.
Only Dutch city left appears to be landlocked, so no probs with Dutch galleys
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Whipping a spear out of Kyoto before the harbor there may not be a very bad plan.
A defender would be nice imo, certainly if we are gonna get counterattacks.
The route from const i think will be NW. It takes 10 turns from there. The boat being produced in 10 turns, it will arive in 12. With 9 turns travel time from kyoto, boats should leave there in 3 to arive together.
The boats will then arive at Paris on KC's turn 7.
The war between France and Scandinavia should IMO be started on KC's first or second turn.
A defender would be nice imo, certainly if we are gonna get counterattacks.
The route from const i think will be NW. It takes 10 turns from there. The boat being produced in 10 turns, it will arive in 12. With 9 turns travel time from kyoto, boats should leave there in 3 to arive together.
The boats will then arive at Paris on KC's turn 7.
The war between France and Scandinavia should IMO be started on KC's first or second turn.
Andronicus
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,672
My thought is to get dromons that are ready and loaded over to Paris ASAP. Whilst waiting for full contingent to arrive the first arrivals could pillage some roads with bombardment to create an area for bikini babe technique (do we want to take a worker as bait?) maybe landing on SE point which appears to be 4 tiles from Paris is an option.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
I was thinking about it, the bikini babe trick is nice, but they should be at war with scandi and most of their units should be out of town anyway.
If we had extra boats or time, i would surely do it. Now i doubt it is good to use our transport capacity for chicks.
With all our units leaving, i think we should soon make peace with Rome.
If we had extra boats or time, i would surely do it. Now i doubt it is good to use our transport capacity for chicks.
With all our units leaving, i think we should soon make peace with Rome.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
The post has changed
As you note we will have a harbour connected to a barracks on Japtec in two turns. It seems to me that the cost of getting another harbour in Kyoto is far too expensive. Perhaps I've been playing too much civ4 recently but I really think the answer to Kyoto's problems will be the whip. Plus 72 science is not to be sneered at.
One thing I want to emphasize: the first three dromons will get to Paris far faster than the last two. As such, I really think we need to consider the possibility of doing some damage to Egypt before setting sail. With upgrades, we currently have 13 attacking units and will have more soon. If a few are lost in the attack... so? Only ten will make make the final journey.
Besides. KC wants in on the fun and he won't get it if we simply sail for Paris.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Last time I checked on that, Julie wanted Teno.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Don't we have some tech for Jule ?
Edit: in your posted save, they want peace for free. And we have many techs for him.
I dont know how unhappiness works iwn civ4, but in civ3, the whip is never a solution for unhappiness.
Edit: in your posted save, they want peace for free. And we have many techs for him.
I dont know how unhappiness works iwn civ4, but in civ3, the whip is never a solution for unhappiness.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Yep. Ur right. There are four slaves connecting Osaka to Teo (little choice given the military situation a couple of turns ago). We'll get the roads in place ASAP. It takes two to get to Kyoto and four to Teno.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Just checked. He's now willing to do it straight up. I guess our improving military together with his scorched boat changed his mind. I wouldn't do it until he actually poses a threat. War happies are always good.
Edit: crosspost with Wacken's edit
Whips are the secret to a fast-growing empire in civ4. Anyway, I don't see the point of a harbour in Kyoto. The city is gonna starve even at 40% lux. That's civ3. In the meantime, hire lots of scientists and get the roads in place ASAP.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
It will not starve at 40%.
The harbor will provide luxuries.
Oh not starving is with MP's. Those will leave in 3 turns...
The harbor will provide luxuries.
Oh not starving is with MP's. Those will leave in 3 turns...
WackenOpenAir
Deity
With 3 luxes, it can be size 4 i think. We need to trade extra luxes soon. The harbor i capital was needed anway. Say we trade 2 more luxes when we have the harbor. (trading is pretty safe with the lighthouse right?)
Then we can support size 6 cities on luxes alone. We should thus prevent it from starving below size 6, and have it connected to the capital.
I think the harbor really is the solution here. I see no chance to get the roads in due time. If it starves, it is gonna starve to size 3 or so ?. We can save 2 or 3 citizns with the harbor.
Then we can support size 6 cities on luxes alone. We should thus prevent it from starving below size 6, and have it connected to the capital.
I think the harbor really is the solution here. I see no chance to get the roads in due time. If it starves, it is gonna starve to size 3 or so ?. We can save 2 or 3 citizns with the harbor.
killercane
Deity
Looking at the save now.
We can move the dromon w/ sword into harbor at Teo to get those peeps producing.
Im inclined to say whip the harbor too, killing 3 citizens but we get 3 happiness and ivory connected back. Can Kyoto get 10 shields by turn 7 to whip it for 1 citizen and then get ivory for turn 9 AC? I dont think it can. It will starve next turn anyway. And if we are building so many workers we can get it back into good shape soon. Maybe even build a temple or some craziness there if it is still quite contrary.
We are weak vs. Babylon. They could take out the rest of Dutchland if we realign them.
Maybe move the leader out of Teo I dont know if it could flip but it is bad if it does.
America and Vikes have lots of silk, dont know if France war and Egypt war would break a trade there. If we make peace with Rome we need to fix the happies since we have happiness from that.
We can move the dromon w/ sword into harbor at Teo to get those peeps producing.
Im inclined to say whip the harbor too, killing 3 citizens but we get 3 happiness and ivory connected back. Can Kyoto get 10 shields by turn 7 to whip it for 1 citizen and then get ivory for turn 9 AC? I dont think it can. It will starve next turn anyway. And if we are building so many workers we can get it back into good shape soon. Maybe even build a temple or some craziness there if it is still quite contrary.
We are weak vs. Babylon. They could take out the rest of Dutchland if we realign them.
Maybe move the leader out of Teo I dont know if it could flip but it is bad if it does.
America and Vikes have lots of silk, dont know if France war and Egypt war would break a trade there. If we make peace with Rome we need to fix the happies since we have happiness from that.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Besides. KC wants in on the fun and he won't get it if we simply sail for Paris.
Oh yes he will. The boats will arive on turn 7, he can attack on turn 8.
I edited most of my posts, so you may have missed that part
