SGOTM 12 - Unusual Suspects

The Simple Mind · Nov 26, 2010

Plan looks good

Some good points from KCD though I'm not so sure we require grenadiers. If we keep up the supply/numbers of cannons, maces will be sufficient to take all of Mao's cities. Get as many as you can to CR3 for future upgrade to riflemen for next big war (not counting DeGaulle).

Agree that 1st two GGs should create a MASH unit for each stack.

Deckhand · Nov 27, 2010

^ generally agree with IS:

Indiansmoke said:
Plan seems good to me along with KCD comments....just some extra points that come to mind.

1. Is it necessary to move all troops at front city? With 2 workers we could split the stack, road and take 2 cities at once (front + DG's old stone city) and reunite the 2 stacks after. Unless Mao's stack (if there is any) is sitting behind those 2 cities this seems more efficient to me.
There are several options here.

Option 1: Tianjin, Rheims (1a skip Rheims), Chengdu, Shanghai, Beijing, etc
Option 2: Split army 10 artillery + 10 support to (Army Group North): Shanghai, Beijing, ...
remainders plus reinforcements (Army Group South): Tianjin, Chengdu

Option 3 (current PPP): Army to hill SE of Tianjin. Bombard, Attack, Capture with Knight and withdraw, wait for Mao to move his SoT (stack of Trebs) in (or otherwise locate and deal with said stack), destroy SoT;
Build roads, move thru France, Attack Shanghai and points east
Reinforcements take Chengdu and Rheims

note from kcd post: chariot locate SoT

Option 4 (from IS suggestion above): build roads, split stack, attack Tianjin and Rheims simultaneously
this delays attack a couple of turns to build roads and postion army

Option 5 (my new recommendation): Attack Tianjin immediately (Option 3). Instead of withdrawing and waiting for SoT to retake city, leave one longbow in it. After SoT destroyed, shift a few units from main force to add to reinforcements which will take Rheims and Chengdu.

2. Back cities I see are building maces and eles....knights would probably be more efficient from back there to move at front faster. Also the cities that work the cottages, silver & furs, need not to be slaved no more IMo (at least not the good tiles). The front cities on the other hand that have plenty of food need more slaving....
Agree. Will finish current builds and switch to knights for subsequent ones. Stop whipping if good tiles to work.

3. Lets settle the oil island, it might be our only oil and with stone coming soon it is probably a very good maoi city. - Agree. I will drop off the settler on the SE continent. It can walk to next city. I recommend a2 uncontaminated tundra clam/clam at SE tip. Galley will pick up worker from below Novo to clear fallout. Settler being build in Novo will settle Oil Island.

so green from me & Good luck

Also "Agree that 1st two GGs should create a MASH unit for each stack."

Tech: 20% for Astro in 9 turns. I will save the plunder money and switch techs in continuation (hopefully we have a consensus then).

Yamps · Nov 27, 2010

Looks like you've been busy... :goodjob:

I'll have a look now as well. :coffee:

kcd_swede · Nov 27, 2010

................snooze........... :lol:

Yamps · Nov 27, 2010

Well, this took some time to process... :scan:

Okay, first of all, we should give more care in the future to keep track of AI war intentions. I did some old post digging, here's the info on Churchill:

The Simple Mind said:
Churchill - entered war mode between 350AD->375AD

Spoiler :

350AD

375AD

DeGaulle - worst enemy changed from FDR to us during 75AD->100AD and entered war mode between 225AD->250AD

Spoiler :

75AD

100AD

250AD

Yamps said:
^thanks!

Well, De Gaulle is after us. Annoyed at the time and we are close. Churchill decided to DoW in 350 AD and war fist appeared in 375 AD. Our peace treaty was cancelled in 375 AD so he couldn't go after us in 350 AD. Assuming he was Annoyed towards De Gaulle at the time, it's De Gaulle. This is not 100% though, there are some chances he's after Mao instead. Cautious towards him, but maybe they have border tension.

Anyway, we'll likely see some action soon. Going Confu now is important to improve relations with Mao. Churchill's Taoism will cause trouble, maybe Mao back-stabs him at some point.

Assuming that Churchill didn't go out of wheeohrn and back again in the meantime, we are safe. FDR went into war mode in Narri's set while Mao and De Gaulle were at war. IIRC, FDR was annoyed at DG and us at the time. DG is closer to him so again I don't think it's us. Still, let's be careful about that. We should send some spies to Churchill/FDR to see how big are their stacks.

The real war threat is the one kcd_swede mentioned, Mao bribing DG. This is very real, we should beg 1 gold from DG on the turn we are about to attack Mao. Mao could still broker close borders so that's sth to have in mind as well.

Note for future play: please take a glance screen screenshot when you see a war fist change, some AI going in or out of war mode. That's the easiest way to keep track later on and it's pretty important to have some idea about AI war intentions.

Some other comments:

Let's be careful not to get broke.

We'll lose the trade routes with China when we attack and with Mercantilism around the golden GLH days are over. Stockpile some cash now and eventually finish Astronomy. After that, stockpile cash for Sci Meth but don't finish it to keep the Parthenon and GLib bonus. We could use Communism and Physics for the Gspy/Gsci or we could simply go after Biology->Medicine. I don't think we'll need grens to tackle our continent. Let's just build more cheaper units + cannons for the war. However, we'll have to decide about Stalin soon, he has grens.

I suggest we sell Theology to Churchill for cash and relations. It's a cheap tech that he could get on its own anyway. (this is of course a bit controversial, kcd_swede didn't want to do it and I'm somewhat ambiguous about it too.)

War plan

I think we should split our stack as IS suggested to capture two front cities and then converge on Mao's Ivory city. That's an important city to take, Mao doesn't have iron and without elephants he'll only have maces. Also, use that knight to spot his SoD, taking it out is our immediate war objective. We'll see it from there what to do. Also, do send a spy to Churchill and FDR to check what's going on. We have OB with FDR, but no units around. For Churchill, we might get OB if we sell Theology. We could get it for sure if we sell something more expensive, but as you nicely put it 'We fear they are becoming too advanced.' :lol:

Also note that we could return Reins to DG when we clean it up and before we attack his other cities. The only downside is the loss of stone, which we might use for Kremlin. (brings back memories, doesn't it?

) We'll likely do some heavy infra whipping after the war so it could be useful.

Regarding that, there's an issue of AI after Astro colonies if they get some. How are we going to clean them? There's also India to be cleared. In the end, it will probably come down to Ecology gifting to the AI along with some workers as well.

EDIT:

Option 5 (my new recommendation): Attack Tianjin immediately (Option 3). Instead of withdrawing and waiting for SoT to retake city, leave one longbow in it. After SoT destroyed, shift a few units from main force to add to reinforcements which will take Rheims and Chengdu.

We should definitely attack on this turn, no waiting. We're faster to Rheims through China then by splitting our stack. Key thing for war is DG's response, if he closes borders we'll have logistical problems. Just invade Tianjin now (beg DG for 1 gold before you do that) and make tactical decisions along the way. I think we should go Tianjin->Rheims->Chengdu(Ivory), taking out Mao's stack along the way before we hit his core cities.

EDIT2 (final war plan!): De Gaulle won't close borders at Pleased! He would attack if bribed though. So, if he gives you that 1g (we haven't asked anything so far, no reason not to), feel free to invade Shangai through France! In 10 turns we should have things under control at Rheims and Chengdu. Also, you most probably don't have to wait for SoT, move in asap for Shangai. Leave some units near Tianjin if he goes for that city to kill the SoT or take it out with our main stack. Tianjin forces with reinforcements can then take Rheims and Chengdu like you said in your plan.

Take a worker or two along with the stack to build roads on the Tianjin hill and northern forest to get us connected with DG. It's important to get the war done as fast as possible, we should use De Gaulle in that plan. Make a stop just before our forced 10 turns of peace expire, we also have the option to bribe DG to fight on our side against Mao! We don't need DG of course, but that would permanently prevent Mao to bribe him against us. Hah, we just might get a Friendly AI in this game! :lol:

Logistics

I did some calculations to determine our whipping food to hammer ratio in our war cities: (it's a bunch of boring numbers, but please take a quick look on this )

Spoiler :

Point: Whip away, but keep the mines and workshops unless you want something urgent immediately. Working the mines and workshops would yield more hammers/turn and more units. Whip coast tiles when you can't work more mines. Also, use the workers to build more workshops on all available tiles and start working them. This will take some time though, but it's not a big deal in most cities since whipping is already giving good production. We'll want to save some happy caps though, workshops will provide a good replacement while our cites are recovering.

We have the stack to get rolling, but this won't be over so fast so some logistical care is needed. We'll also have to whip newly captured cites for units to keep going faster.

Deckhand, please write a new PPP draft to add all the comments, there's been a lot of input from the team. You could add a 'Tips from the team' addendum to the plan as well.

Cities

Capital

Whip the 2 scientists and get the Bank done now. After that, Market to get 2 more merchants. Forge after that with Observatory following if you want to start the research after Astro. The capital has to start with units production as well, we need lots of them. Also, don't hire scientists anymore, get the 4 merchants.

Mainland cities

War machine!

(see what you need on the front)

Colonies

Keep settling for Sushi resources, maintenance costs be damned for now.

Yamps · Nov 27, 2010

kcd_swede said:
................snooze...........

Ah well, always sth...

Roster:

Yamps: On deck!
The Simple Mind
Indiansmoke
Narri
Kcd_swede: just played
Deckhand: UP! (round 1)

kcd_swede · Nov 27, 2010

@deckhand:

I want you to go in a yard and a half -- and then check yourselves. Spread your feet -- squat down low -- and be ready with your hands and elbows, so you won't be sideswiped. But I want the ends in there fast every play. Every play, but under control. And you men in the backfield there, I want you to analyze it before you move. If they throw a forward pass, a zone pass, wait til you see the ball in the air -- and then go and get it! And when we get it, boys, that's when we go on offense. And that's when we go to em -- and, don't forget, we're gonna pick on one last one tackle that is weak.

We're going inside of em, we're going outside of em -- inside of em! outside of em! -- and when we get them on the run once, we're going to keep em on the run. And we're not going to pass unless their secondary comes up too close. But don't forget, men -- we're gonna get em on the run, we're gonna go, go, go, go! -- and we aren't going to stop until we go over that goal line!

And don't forget, men -- today is the day we're gonna win. They can't lick us -- and that's how it goes... The first platoon men -- go in there and fight, fight, fight, fight, fight! What do you say, men!

BTW: Dat's my way of saying you got my green light as long as you can decryptofy Yamps indecipherable comments. :mischief:

Yamps · Nov 27, 2010

BTW: Dat's my way of saying you got my green light as long as you can decryptofy Yamps indecipherable comments.

I'm sure that Deckhand will handle it. That's why *he* is up for play!

Deckhand · Nov 27, 2010

PPP final(?), duration 10t from t201:

Objectives
Start war against China: capture their cities, burn their longbows and trebuchets
continue island colonization (REX)
get Lucky and get Magellan (circumnavigate)
create 2 super medic chariots

Stop conditions
Ten turns
Astronomy discovered (unless we agree on next tech)
Need advice
Someone declares war on us

War
(Option 5a) Attack Tianjin immediately. Army to hill SE of Tianjin. Bombard, Attack, leave one longbow in it. Next turn use new road to move most of stack and workers to forest. Leave some units in Tianjin to be core of Army group south.
Main force thru France to Shanghai. South force and reinforcements take Rheims and Chengdu (don't return Rheims to France)

EDIT2 (final war plan!): De Gaulle won't close borders at Pleased! He would attack if bribed though. So, if he gives you that 1g (we haven't asked anything so far, no reason not to), feel free to invade Shangai through France! In 10 turns we should have things under control at Rheims and Chengdu. Also, you most probably don't have to wait for SoT, move in asap for Shangai. Leave some units near Tianjin if he goes for that city to kill the SoT or take it out with our main stack. Tianjin forces with reinforcements can then take Rheims and Chengdu like you said in your plan.

Take a worker or two along with the stack to build roads on the Tianjin hill and northern forest to get us connected with DG. It's important to get the war done as fast as possible, we should use De Gaulle in that plan. Make a stop just before our forced 10 turns of peace expire, we also have the option to bribe DG to fight on our side against Mao! We don't need DG of course, but that would permanently prevent Mao to bribe him against us. Hah, we just might get a Friendly AI in this game!

Locate SoT and destroy it asap.
Mao’s stack:

Last sighted in Chengdu t200. Using quick moves, I do not know which direction it left, but am sure it is either SW or NW. Probably towards the capitol. But before you declare war, use the chariot by Chendgu to locate it. Leave it some movement points if you can, so that when it teleports (to France, probably) you can get it off the front. But its expendable, imo. [expendable, but be nice to use it for 2nd great general]Note, Churchhill had an LB and a Mace fortified in the fort on the Chinese border.

Diplo:
Beg 1 gold from DG before DoW Mao!
Don’t join wars.
Accept demands from USA and England
Don’t give in to other demands
Resource trades: "take cash (2 or more gpt) for any of the happy/health resources we have to spare, to whomever can pay for it" (no one currently)

I suggest we sell Theology to Churchill for cash and relations. It's a cheap tech that he could get on its own anyway. (this is of course a bit controversial, kcd_swede didn't want to do it and I'm somewhat ambiguous about it too.)

Trade Theology to Churchill now for 240 gold? Recommendation: trade it as soon as he offers less than his max cash.

Tech/Slider Slider at 100% cash until reserve of 100gold; then Astro at sustainable rate; raise/lower science rate to keep 100g reserve
Tech trades – none, we fear they are becoming too advanced.

next tech: Repl Parts (?); pause before commit to next tech

Civics: no changes; but accept demands to change
Is it worth a turn of anarchy to adopt merchantilism now? (bonus to rel'n with FDR) For now, will plan to do so with DoW on DeGaulle (last trading partner and China cities will be in disorder)

Spoiler :

Cities
Mainland cities continue to whip units, 2pop whips where applicable.

NJ: bank (immediately whipping scientists), market (4 merchants after the pop grows back), forge, observatory (need astronomy)

KashCow: no whip, grow into elephants and mines, build units, workshop 2W 1S

NewMarbles: 2 pop whips for units

Holy Pigs: cannon, Heroic Epic asap, (HE with whip; need to keep farms to keep growing; build workshops S of rice), continue to build military

Drunken Deer: grow to use cottages; whip pop above that; build units
build galley at DD to ferry troops from DD and SP to France and Front Faster
Question: keep a few units in DD/SP to defend against invasion?
Assume city garrisons plus whipping units being built are enough

Whipville: units, whip 'em

St Pete: units, whip 'em

Rust-Off: workboat, units

Ban Anna: units, whip 'em

Spoiler :

Also, build some spies to send to England and America

Colonies
Novo: [Settler ready in four turns, can have worker on offshore isle in four turns, then need six to clear fallout, therefore:]
build worker (4 turns) and send 2 to isle, then finish settler (2 pop whip), then recommend build something (courthouse?) while growing, then settlers, settlers

Yak: grow to use mines, move 1st longbow to Novo, then build garrison for Yak

Copper House: granary (whip), work developed sheep, horse, copper (whip excess) build workboat, garrisons
Cape Crud: granary (whip), lighthouse, workers/settlers

Specialists: max merchants in NJ, no others, fire (whip) spy in St Pete's

Workers:
Add 2 workers to invasion force to build roads to/from Tianjin (hill/forest) and scrub fallout/develop gems etc.
Develop resources, clear fallout and build workshops.
Holiday over, back to work.

Settlers
City settling order:
Note- only first 2 or 3 need consensus at this timem
a) uncontaminated clam/clam at SE tip on tundra 3SE of Copper Horse (or on grassland - need consensus here!)
b) 2S of Offshore Platform
c) ruins 1S of crab
d) on copper 4S of Ban Anna
e) ruins on 2 tile isle between Ban Anna and Yak
f) ruins SW of iron
g) 6W Stalingrad (or on 4 tile isle and on ice NW of here)
h) forest NE, 3 SE of Novo
i) ice SE of fish (fish 8 S of Yak)
j) 6 W of St Pete's
note - I will label the sites for easier discussion
and if caravel finds a spot it will be prioritized
Caravel Check out Old Russia, but don’t end turn in coast and don’t delay proof of cylindrical

Great People 1st 2 Generals = medics, save all other kinds; if get 3rd general, save it?

Remember to do each turn:
Check price of Theology with Churchill
Check if DeGaulle willing to be bribed into war against Mao
Check for resource trades
Track AI forces
Watch for AI attitude changes and take a glance screen screenshot when you see a war fist change, some AI going in or out of war mode.
Other screen shots to take and when? what else?

Notes
Civs with Astronomy: China
Cities for AIs: China - Macau, France - Tours, America - Seattle

AI attitudes:

Spoiler :

Print PPP before playing and refer to it during.

Tips from the team:

Spoiler :

Did I miss anything?

Yamps · Nov 27, 2010

Deckhand said:
PPP final(?), duration 10t from t201:

Objectives
Start war against China: capture their cities, burn their longbows and trebuchets
continue island colonization (REX)
get Lucky and get Magellan (circumnavigate)
create 2 super medic chariot

Stop conditions
Ten turns. Make sure you stop while we still have forced peace with DG to discuss the bribing option.
Astronomy discovered (unless we agree on next tech) don't stop, just put 0% into Sci Method
Need advice
Someone declares war on us

War
(Option 5a) Attack Tianjin immediately. Army to hill SE of Tianjin. Bombard, Attack, leave one longbow in it. Next turn use new road to move most of stack and workers to forest. Leave some units in Tianjin to be core of Army group south.
Main force thru France to Shanghai. South force and reinforcements take Rheims and Chengdu (don't return Rheims to France)

Locate SoT and destroy it asap.
Mao’s stack:
.

Diplo:
Beg 1 gold from DG before DoW Mao!
Don’t join wars.
Accept demands from USA and England if it's sth small and maybe not even then, we fear nobody! (and they are in war mode anyway )
Don’t give in to other demands
Resource trades: "take cash (2 or more gpt) for any of the happy/health resources we have to spare, to whomever can pay for it" (no one currently)

I suggest we sell Theology to Churchill for cash and relations. It's a cheap tech that he could get on its own anyway. (this is of course a bit controversial, kcd_swede didn't want to do it and I'm somewhat ambiguous about it too.)

What should I keep in mind / watch out for?

Tech/Slider Slider at 100 cash until reserve of 100gold; then Astro at sustainable rate; raise/lower science rate to keep 100 reserve
Tech trades – none, we fear they are becoming too advanced.
Trade Theology to Churchill now for 240 gold? Recommendation: trade it as soon as he offers less than his max cash. We're not just buying the gold, we're buying good relations. If we are selling, we should sell immediately. Let's do it, Cautious and OB with him wouldn't hurt.

next tech: Repl Parts (?); pause before commit to next tech No need for RP and Rifling, cannons are enough and rifles are expensive. This is a space race after all, we have to go for Sushi asap to stay competitive. Sci Meth is the logical choice, but we want some delays to keep the GLib and Parthenon for a while. Put the beakers into it, but don't finish just yet.

Civics: no changes; but accept demands to change No, that would be against everything we stand for!
Is it worth a turn of anarchy to adopt merchantilism now? (bonus to rel'n with FDR) For now, will plan to do so with DoW on DeGaulle (last trading partner and China cities will be in disorder)

Spoiler :

Let's be careful not to get broke. too late
We'll lose the trade routes with China when we attack and with Mercantilism around the golden GLH days are over. lose 31 trade immediately; if these routes are picked up internally or with DeGaulle, get around 20 back

Stockpile some cash now and eventually finish Astronomy. After that, stockpile cash for Sci Meth but don't finish it to keep the Parthenon and GLib bonus. We could use Communism and Physics for the Gspy/Gsci or we could simply go after Biology->Medicine. I don't think we'll need grens to tackle our continent. Let's just build more cheaper units + cannons for the war. However, we'll have to decide about Stalin soon, he has grens.

Cities
Mainland cities continue to whip units, 2pop whips where applicable.

NJ: bank (immediately whipping scientists), market (4 merchants after the pop grows back), forge, observatory (need astronomy)

KashCow: no whip, grow into elephants and mines, build units, workshop 2W 1S

NewMarbles: 2 pop whips for units

Holy Pigs: cannon, Heroic Epic asap, (HE with whip overflow from previous builds, not direct whipping; need to keep farms to keep growing; build workshops S of rice), continue to build military

Drunken Deer: grow to use cottages; whip pop above that; build units
build galley at DD to ferry troops from DD and SP to France and Front Faster
Question: keep a few units in DD/SP to defend against invasion?
Assume city garrisons plus whipping units being built are enough Just keep the 1 unit garrison, DG won't attack us. He'll be our ally!

Whipville: units, whip 'em

St Pete: units, whip 'em

Rust-Off: workboat, units

Ban Anna: units, whip 'em

Spoiler :

Point: Whip away, but keep the mines and workshops unless you want something urgent immediately. Working the mines and workshops would yield more hammers/turn and more units. Whip coast tiles when you can't work more mines. Also, use the workers to build more workshops on all available tiles and start working them. This will take some time though, but it's not a big deal in most cities since whipping is already giving good production. We'll want to save some happy caps though, workshops will provide a good replacement while our cites are recovering.

Also, build some spies to send to England and America

Colonies
Novo: [Settler ready in four turns, can have worker on offshore isle in four turns, then need six to clear fallout, therefore:]
build worker (4 turns) and send 2 to isle, then finish settler (2 pop whip), then recommend build something (courthouse?) while growing, then settlers, settlers

Yak: grow to use mines, move 1st longbow to Novo, then build garrison for Yak

Copper House: granary (whip), work developed sheep, horse, copper (whip excess) build workboat, garrisons
Cape Crud: granary (whip), lighthouse, workers/settlers

Specialists:max merchants in NJ, no others, fire (whip) spy in St Pete's

Workers:
Add 2 workers to invasion force to build roads to/from Tianjin (hill/forest) and scrub fallout/develop gems etc.
Develop resources, clear fallout and build workshops.
Holiday over, back to work.

Settlers
City settling order:
Note- only first 2 or 3 need consensus at this timem
a) uncontaminated clam/clam at SE tip on tundra 3SE of Copper Horse (or on grassland - need consensus here!)
b) 2S of Offshore Platform
c) ruins 1S of crab
d) on copper 4S of Ban Anna
e) ruins on 2 tile isle between Ban Anna and Yak
f) ruins SW of iron
g) 6W Stalingrad (or on 4 tile isle and on ice NW of here)
h) forest NE, 3 SE of Novo
i) ice SE of fish (fish 8 S of Yak)
j) 6 W of St Pete's
note - I will label the sites for easier discussion
and if caravel finds a spot it will be done asap ...

Well, I have to check the map if there are some issues here. I'm fairly loose regarding this.

Caravel Check out Old Russia, but don’t end turn in coast and don’t delay proof of cylindrical

Great People 1st 2 Generals = medics, save all other kinds; if get 3rd general, save it? We'll see about that when it happens, we won't get him that fast.

Remember to do each turn:
Check price of Theology with Churchill just sell now
Check if DeGaulle willing to be bribed into war against Mao
Check for resource trades
Watch for AI attitude changes and take a glance screen screenshot when you see a war fist change, some AI going in or out of war mode.
Other screen shots to take and when? what else?

Notes
Civs with Astronomy: China
Cities for AIs: China - Macau, France - Tours, America - Seattle

AI attitudes:

Spoiler :

Assuming that Churchill didn't go out of wheeohrn and back again in the meantime, we are safe. FDR went into war mode in Narri's set while Mao and De Gaulle were at war. IIRC, FDR was annoyed at DG and us at the time. DG is closer to him so again I don't think it's us. Still, let's be careful about that. We should send some spies to Churchill/FDR to see how big are their stacks.

The real war threat is the one kcd_swede mentioned, Mao bribing DG. This is very real, we should beg 1 gold from DG on the turn we are about to attack Mao. Mao could still broker close borders so that's sth to have in mind as well.

Note for future play: please take a glance screen screenshot when you see a war fist change, some AI going in or out of war mode. That's the easiest way to keep track later on and it's pretty important to have some idea about AI war intentions

Print PPP before playing and refer to it during.

Tips from the team:

Spoiler :

DG and Mao have OB, so your units are not safe in France. Also, after their forced peace runs out (t206) Mao can get DG to close borders to us, or even bribe to war. He can't get him to close borders and we'll prevent the war possibility.

DoW on Mao causes neg diplo with DG and with FDR, so I think FDR might end up in this thing too. (He can't be bribed to war, though, so if our power doesn't drop he might just sit on his hands).

Give in to reasonable demands (cash, resource, non-mil techs). Get OB with anyone you can if the chance arises. Churchill after the Theology sell.

Present wb was aiming for the fish in Cape Crud (after a 14t trek), but use your judgement if its smarter to go somewhere else first, letting Cape Crud whip its own damn wb's, thank you very much.

Don't give map in any deal or you will lose circumnav for certain. After that, we can discuss if its worth keeping the AI ignorant of colony sites, or we need the cash for selling it.

After circumnav... get a spy on that caravel to pop huts and explore land. Bangalore is the cheapest city to steal tech from Ghandi if we want to try that. We might get a brief visibility on his research next turn... if so note what he's teching and how long its taking. We probably don't want him beating us to Physics, but there might not be a lot we can do about it, honestly.

The LB being made in Yak should go to Novo to increase happy cap there by +3. That's a few more tiles worked or a few more whips to crack. Take your pick.

Did I miss anything? Don't forget to marry their women!

Green (well, blue actually) light from me!

I'll take a look on those settling spots now.

EDIT:

1) Grassland is clearly better, it gets the clams and it is coastal so I'm not sure what was the issue with the spot. (?)

2) Offshore spot - take this one asap

3) Crab spot - we don't have crabs yet so make sure we get that one

Anyway, I don't think we have meaningful issues that would justify a delay. Green light and good luck!

Btw, excelent job on assembling this PPP from all the previous discussions, I think you just set up a new standard for the team! :goodjob:

Yamps · Nov 27, 2010

kcd_swede said:
@deckhand:

I want you to go in a yard and a half -- and then check yourselves. Spread your feet -- squat down low -- and be ready with your hands and elbows, so you won't be sideswiped. But I want the ends in there fast every play. Every play, but under control. And you men in the backfield there, I want you to analyze it before you move. If they throw a forward pass, a zone pass, wait til you see the ball in the air -- and then go and get it! And when we get it, boys, that's when we go on offense. And that's when we go to em -- and, don't forget, we're gonna pick on one last one tackle that is weak.

We're going inside of em, we're going outside of em -- inside of em! outside of em! -- and when we get them on the run once, we're going to keep em on the run. And we're not going to pass unless their secondary comes up too close. But don't forget, men -- we're gonna get em on the run, we're gonna go, go, go, go! -- and we aren't going to stop until we go over that goal line!

And don't forget, men -- today is the day we're gonna win. They can't lick us -- and that's how it goes... The first platoon men -- go in there and fight, fight, fight, fight, fight! What do you say, men!

Oh, and I almost forgot... :rotfl:

Deckhand · Nov 28, 2010

Yamps said:
1) Grassland is clearly better, it gets the clams and it is coastal so I'm not sure what was the issue with the spot. (?)

Just my aversion to putting city on grass when tundra is available. Lose Grassland but gain Spices. Turns out also lost crabs.

Lesson: explore area before building city.

====

in middle of turn 208 /1480 - Paused for discussions :

Bribe DeGaulle into joining us?
I'm afraid he might conquer Macau. It probably will increase and not reduce the size of his army. If he is our next target, then why care about his friendliness?

Tianjin and Rheims are coming out of rebellion this turn. What to build in them?
Tianjin is starving, so need to whip something. (It has granary,LH, Har). I was thinking barracks.
Rheims will be in culture war with Macau, so I was thinking (cheap creative) library.

Can whip HE in HP for 2.

Fleet: whipped 2 privateers last turn and started two more this turn. What to do with them?

Should I build a galleon to transport settlers to the new lands? And where build it?
I think it can wait because land isn't that great and only Mao knows Astro.

Advice for workers welcome.

Shanghai - can't capture it this turn, so planning to reduce its defence and attack next turn (other stack moves next to it this turn) (these stacks haven't moved)
Can send a knight to kill the horse archer, but planning to wait (it won't survive long).

EDIT: additional question: Spend gold go upgrade any units? e.g. catapults to cannons, axes to maces, galleys to galleons
====
Highlights:
The SoT (original location marked on map) nicely moved next to the captured Tianjin and was easily dispatched.
No bad RNG to complain about. Did lose some cannons at 71% odds.

DG had no money, so I gave him ten gold; then asked for it back nicely and he agreed.

FDR demanded we cancel deals with The Vile French. Particulary bad time to ask as our SoD was on western french border. So said no.

Lost circumnavigation by ~3 turns to English. Met a Chinese carvel the turn before, It didn't attack. Then met English caravel. Then they got the bonus.
EDIT: Plan for caravel: explore "Astro Islands" then Soviet lands.
I will now upload save. Then create a post with a couple screen shots and the log.

Deckhand · Nov 28, 2010

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1410 AD to 1480 AD:

Spoiler :

kcd_swede · Nov 28, 2010

Bummer on the circumnav... I didn't really think we would get it unless very lucky. Not to be.

Great job taking care of that stack! And nice fighting; I hope you had fun with all those cannons I made for you.

I wouldn't use the gold to upgrade. We have what we need already. Better to use it to get some more tech progress, imo. Its a space race (against Plastic Ducks).

I'm not sure mercantilism is good for us. We want the GLH to keep producing gold, right? Not sure relations with FDR matter at this point. He's on the "to destroy" list anyhow.

Galleon I would guess could be whipped in Novo, but I say this without looking at the save so am not sure about that. Settling astro isles is better than having to conquer later.

I guess I should take a look at the save before I say more.

Nice work deckhand, and that really was a supreme PPP! Well executed!

The Simple Mind · Nov 28, 2010

Pity about circumnav bonus but we knew this was always going to be close.

:goodjob:

re warring. Looks like we'll be adding Chengdu next turn and Shanghai the following.

Bribe DeGaulle into joining us?
I'm afraid he might conquer Macau. It probably will increase and not reduce the size of his army. If he is our next target, then why care about his friendliness? I dont think we need to. Dont want him to take Macau or we'll have to settle a city for Mao as all his other cities are keepers.

Tianjin and Rheims are coming out of rebellion this turn. What to build in them?
Tianjin is starving, so need to whip something. (It has granary,LH, Har). I was thinking barracks. Longbow and send axe to war front.
Rheims will be in culture war with Macau, so I was thinking (cheap creative) library.Fair enough

Can whip HE in HP for 2. Yes

Fleet: whipped 2 privateers last turn and started two more this turn. What to do with them? Ban Anna - pillage Churchill's land, St Petes - head for FDR

Should I build a galleon to transport settlers to the new lands? And where build it? Yes from one of the island cities.
I think it can wait because land isn't that great and only Mao knows Astro.

Advice for workers welcome.

Shanghai - can't capture it this turn, so planning to reduce its defence and attack next turn (other stack moves next to it this turn) (these stacks haven't moved)
Can send a knight to kill the horse archer, but planning to wait (it won't survive long). I wouldnt attack with knight as no doubt Mao will produce a unit from the fog somewhere.

EDIT: additional question: Spend gold go upgrade any units? I'd rather keep money for research.e.g. catapults to cannons No. We've 3 cannons in production & HP will be able to make them quickly. , axes to maces Maybe for axes at CR2 or 3., galleys to galleons No urgency for galleons at the moment.
====
Highlights:
The SoT (original location marked on map) nicely moved next to the captured Tianjin and was easily dispatched.
No bad RNG to complain about. Did lose some cannons at 71% odds.

DG had no money, so I gave him ten gold; then asked for it back nicely and he agreed.
Smart thinking.

FDR demanded we cancel deals with The Vile French. Particulary bad time to ask as our SoD was on western french border. So said no. Agree. I'm for going for FDR next anyway possibly before we go for DeGaulle.

Lost circumnavigation by ~3 turns to English. Met a Chinese carvel the turn before, It didn't attack. Then met English caravel. Then they got the bonus.

Indiansmoke · Nov 28, 2010

Deckhand...I would no worry about circumnavigation it will be of minor importance.

Some general comments on next session.

1. We need a few more workers, new lands are rich and we need to improve them fast.
2. I still don't get why we are not cottaging, selectively at least, too much depends on that merchant and if we don't get him then we will need to use hammer economy at least.
3. I believe we need to settle those islands aggressively now, so workers/settlers/galleons should be the focus of production on the island cities
4. Who is next after Mao? Maybe Roosevelt because he is getting to rifling fast it seems...

kcd_swede · Nov 28, 2010

I agree with TSM on all his comment.

I notice our economy is sucking. I'm not worried... its war after all. But looking to the future, I'm thinking whip of courthouses and a Forb Pal somewhere like Philadelphia.

Also notice that Stalin has met Mao and are getting mutual military bonus. I'm finding it harder and harder to understand why we don't just give Stalin CoL or something to end the war. We want to be in control when we are going to take him out. If Mao (or others) start trading with him... he could become a PITA.

I notice that ALL our trade routes are domestic, except in Tianjin where we have routes with France. Hopefully taking more chinese cities fix that. Otherwise, mercantilism would cost us 4 commerce and give us 16 free specialists... a friggin bargain. And we will be at war again soon (I agree FDR might be best next target, but DG should get his turn soon too). So merc might be useful (and who cares that FDR likes it, actually?).

I think TSM answered dh's questions. So should be a short pause, right?

War's looking real good btw. :goodjob:

IS made good comment about workers. And i nthat light...You really should make effort to capture as many workers as you can get your greedy little fingers on.

Yamps · Nov 28, 2010

Just a few comments for now, I'll have a look on the save later today:

Now that Mao has met Stalin with his caravel, peace with Stalin is sth to consider. To restate the reason we didn't before: we were his only contact and he could have gone into war mode against us again without us even knowing it. (no benefit from peace) It's still a dubious move now. Do we want to give tech to Stalin for good relations? I don't think so. Mao won't trade with him if he's backward. At this point, we have to scout Stalin and see what he has. Problems start with him close to Astronomy, can we take him out before that? We should also consider sending privateers there to stop his expansion. It's very odd that he started settling so late, let's see what's going on there.

We can run Caste again and generate at least a few more gp, running only merchants. How unlucky could we be? :rolleyes:

We should continue with workshops and not cottages to keep the war going, our production is the bottleneck at this point. We can start our economy after the war with infra whips and wealth building to get the Sushi. I think we have to gamble for Sushi to stay competitive in this game, some risks are required if we want to win! :king:

The point about bribing DG into war is to prevent Mao in doing the same to us. I'm not saying right now that we should do it, but it is sth to consider. There's also that option 'we'd like you to attack....', maybe DG would cooperate. In any case, we'd have to bribe him out of the war at some point as well. This is an important decision, we might buy some time here with DG to tackle FDR first rather than him.

kcd_swede · Nov 28, 2010

Yamps said:
Just a few comments for now, I'll have a look on the save later today:

Now that Mao has met Stalin with his caravel, peace with Stalin is sth to consider. To restate the reason we didn't before: we were his only contact and he could have gone into war mode against us again without us even knowing it. (no benefit from peace) It's still a dubious move now. Do we want to give tech to Stalin for good relations? I don't think so. Mao won't trade with him if he's backward. At this point, we have to scout Stalin and see what he has. Problems start with him close to Astronomy, can we take him out before that? We should also consider sending privateers there to stop his expansion. It's very odd that he started settling so late, let's see what's going on there.

We can run Caste again and generate at least a few more gp, running only merchants. How unlucky could we be? We should continue with workshops and not cottages to keep the war going, our production is the bottleneck at this point. We can start our economy after the war with infra whips and wealth building to get the Sushi. I think we have to gamble for Sushi to stay competitive in this game, some risks are required if we want to win!

The point about bribing DG into war is to prevent Mao in doing the same to us. I'm not saying right now that we should do it, but it is sth to consider. There's also that option 'we'd like you to attack....', maybe DG would cooperate. In any case, we'd have to bribe him out of the war at some point as well. This is an important decision, we might buy some time here with DG to tackle FDR first rather than him.

Good points all. I eagerly await your wisdum after seing the save. I doubt it changes anything, sionce war-wise things are going our way ... as expected/planned. Heja US! :king:

narri · Nov 28, 2010

Looking at the save, I have very little to add, but keep the following in mind:
The reason we still don't have Astro trade routes is that we haven't revealed an ocean path to Gandhi! Why? Because our continent slices the world in 2 from north to south!. If you try to trace a path from St. Petes through FDR territory, we get stopped because (I think) we can't move diagonally through ice. Our trade route problems are solved easiest by actually circumnavigating the world from the west. I would actually say go Free Market for that reason.

SGOTM 12 - Unusual Suspects

Warlord

Procrastination at its finest

Deity

Jag är Viking!½

Deity

Deity

Jag är Viking!½

Deity

Procrastination at its finest

Deity

Deity

Procrastination at its finest

Procrastination at its finest

Jag är Viking!½

Warlord

Deity

Jag är Viking!½

Deity

Jag är Viking!½

Warlord

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