SGOTM 12 - Xteam

[Ronnie1]

Right now we can get Monarchy+Poly = Currency+65gold.

OR

Monarchy+Archery = Currency+10gold

OR

Monarchy+40gold = Currency

I like option #1 then option #3, and don't care much for option #2.

Would the citizen working grass in Novgorod be more useful as a scientist?

I would actually keep growing in case we need to whip.

I'm not sure about Rostov? Looks like we are growing out pop, but there are not many tiles to work. Should we get that worker out now? Or is the plan to grow and run two scientists before finishing the worker? Not sure the 3 food, 1 gold tile is all that worthwhile.

Rostov looks good to grow into another scientist, and later work a hill winery, which is a decent tile. There are 0 hammers invested in the worker.

I would not trade HBR if we can avoid it. I like it as next tech so we can start building a couple Elephants.

Any ideas as to when tech trading may be offered by other AIs? (Hard to know what to do about religious conversion in ignorance.)

No idea on the trading....the religion question is an interesting one however. I'm sure if we went Buddhist we would pick up trading with Roos in the short run. It has been my experience however, that none of the AI's ever seem to like Gandhi for very long. I'll bet it is not that long before Roos is no longer Buddhist, and then we have gained nothing.

How much of this continent are we planning on taking by force?

We need exploring boats going east both in the north and the south.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"I like option #1 then option #3, and don't care much for option #2." I like #2, since we need Archery for WEs. How did you find all this out without risking having a trade accepted?

"How much of this continent are we planning on taking by force?

We need exploring boats going east both in the north and the south."

Need more info before deciding how much capturing to do. Certainly capital cities are likely to be helpful, but how helpful, how hard to take, and how expensive to maintain.

Exploring boats would be nice, but units to take France seem more important right now.

 

[Cactus Pete]

The cottage near Moscow is complete, can switch a citizen in St. Pete to work it and start growing it out. Just completed, planning to switch.

Would the citizen working grass in Novgorod be more useful as a scientist? Maximum research rate is not critical right now, and growth of city seems more important for the long run.

I'm not sure about Rostov? Looks like we are growing out pop, but there are not many tiles to work. Should we get that worker out now? Or is the plan to grow and run two scientists before finishing the worker? Going to run scientists and whip worker when no good place for citizen. Not sure the 3 food, 1 gold tile is all that worthwhile. We have a granary and are in Slavery, so growth has significant production value.

RE: Trades, looks like G will trade Monarchy and gold for currency now? Not sure I understand your question.

Had not checked this out, thinking wouldn't be able to find out too much without risking a trade being accepted. R1 appears to have done the study for me.

 

[Ronnie1]

like #2, since we need Archery for WEs. How did you find all this out without risking having a trade accepted?

You can use the option that says, "what would make this deal work", so technically they initiate so you still get a chance to accept/decline.

Archery for WE? really, never noticed

 

[leif erikson]

Looking good CP!

I do not think we need Archery for WE's? Checked the Civopedia and it doesn't mention Archery. You do need Archery for Horse Archers, but not WE's as far as I can determine.
edit - Besides, we need Poly for The Great Library.

Like trading Currency to Gandhi for Monarchy and Poly. Also, can trade Deer or Rice to Roosie for 2 gpt.
If we had our second Gold roaded, we could trade that Gold to any of our ai friends for some more Gold and + diplo points.

Would be nice to find Roosie since he has The Great Lighthouse in Washington.
Gandhi has The Temple of Artemis in Dehli.

Not sure our Espionage points are best used on Stalin. While he may be way ahead of us in power, it might be nice to know what is going on with some of the other civs. France soon should not matter, but England is ahead in score, wonder if we should devote some EP's to Churchill, or another civ?

On religion, Mao has already change to Taoism, which also means he has Philosophy.
Think we'll have to play religion by ear?

 

[zamint3]

Good progress CP

If we trade Currency to Gandhi we might as well gift it to Roose and Mao to see if we get enough +diplo to do further trade.

Agree that we should concentrate on war with France for now.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I do not think we need Archery for WE's? Checked the Civopedia and it doesn't mention Archery. You do need Archery for Horse Archers, but not WE's as far as I can determine.
edit - Besides, we need Poly for The Great Library. I stand corrected. Plan will be to trade for Monarchy and Poly and revolt to HR.

Like trading Currency to Gandhi for Monarchy and Poly. Also, can trade Deer or Rice to Roosie for 2 gpt. Don't we already have a resource trade going with America? If so, would like to save for other opportunities.
If we had our second Gold roaded, we could trade that Gold to any of our ai friends for some more Gold and + diplo points. Planning to road gold after iron is hooked up.

Would be nice to find Roosie since he has The Great Lighthouse in Washington.
Gandhi has The Temple of Artemis in Dehli. Advocating conquest of France before exploration.

Not sure our Espionage points are best used on Stalin. While he may be way ahead of us in power, it might be nice to know what is going on with some of the other civs. France soon should not matter, but England is ahead in score, wonder if we should devote some EP's to Churchill, or another civ? Concur that we may have made a mistake (at my suggestion) to put espionage points all to Stalin. (I assumed that , since we had a 'civil' war, he would be located on the same continent.) At this point, I'm thinking we won't be able to get much out of espionage with anyone else, having started so late. Is this not true? (Don't play BtS much, so know little about spy craft.)

On religion, Mao has already change to Taoism, which also means he has Philosophy.
Think we'll have to play religion by ear?

Yes, but at the moment I'm for staying non-sectarian to facilitate tech trading, given G's recent change of attitude.

"If we trade Currency to Gandhi we might as well gift it to Roose and Mao to see if we get enough +diplo to do further trade." Even if that worked, would there be a trade available we'd want to make?

 

[leif erikson]

I stand corrected. Plan will be to trade for Monarchy and Poly and revolt to HR.

Did a quick WB test to confirm and WE do not need Archery.

Don't we already have a resource trade going with America? If so, would like to save for other opportunities.

Yes, but Deer do not seem to be of value to anyone else. The resources is red, meaning we cannot trade it to anyone else except Gandhi. He has no gpt for trade though. Thinking that 2 gpt is better than 0 gpt.

Planning to road gold after iron is hooked up.

Advocating conquest of France before exploration.

Agree

Concur that we may have made a mistake (at my suggestion) to put espionage points all to Stalin. (I assumed that , since we had a 'civil' war, he would be located on the same continent.) At this point, I'm thinking we won't be able to get much out of espionage with anyone else, having started so late. Is this not true? (Don't play BtS much, so know little about spy craft.)

I believed the same thing. We were wrong.

We are pretty far behind as to see the other civ's demographics will require a low of 199 EP's for Gandhi to a high of 281 for Mao. We may be able to steal valuable tech from Stalin I suppose, if we keep the EPs on him. Why not?

Yes, but at the moment I'm for staying non-sectarian to facilitate tech trading, given G's recent change of attitude.

Agree. Let's see where the wind is blowing a bit further down the road?

"If we trade Currency to Gandhi we might as well gift it to Roosie and Mao to see if we get enough +diplo to do further trade." Even if that worked, would there be a trade available we'd want to make?

I think there will be trades we will want to make, just not now? I believe that z's point is that Gandhi will trade Currency around so we may as well get something for it? We can get 70 Gold by trading it for gold with Churchill, Roosie and Mao.

I still think the more important question will be what are we willing to give up?

 

[Grifftavian]

Re: Trades with Gandhi. I took a different approach, put in each our techs in the trade screen, and clicked "What will you give me for this?"

Results...

• Currency = Polytheism+Archery+40
• Civil Service = Polytheism+Monarchy+Archery+40

Do we want to consider trading Civil Service at this point?

Nice that we have Iron next to St. Pete! It's looking like a good production city to me.

 

[Ronnie1]

I am NOT in favor of giving up CS just yet.

If/when China gets it, they are only 2 techs from Liberalism.

 

[Grifftavian]

I am NOT in favor of giving up CS just yet.

If/when China gets it, they are only 2 techs from Liberalism.

I didn't think we wanted to trade CS this early, but I didn't notice this about China!

The Currency trade to Gandhi for Archery/Polytheism/40 will give us enough to finish HBR in 2 turns at 100% Science. If we make that trade, there is a chance Gandhi could trade Currency to Churchill and Roosevelt. Do we want to consider selling Currency to those two if we make the trade with Gandhi? We would only get a total of 60 from the two sales, but might get some positive "fair" trade points.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Inclined not to trade Currency right now, reasoning as follows:
Only Mao has anything to trade G for it, and we'd only get 10 gold from Mao; plus, we can trade Poly to him for that next turn, get an additional diplo point and hopefully be able to trade Currency for Calendar. The downside would seem only to be that we lose 60 gold, and we can likely gain something like that in a few turns by trading HBR.

Will trade the deer to Roosevelt. Concur we should not trade CS at this time.

BTW, schedule for RL suggests I'll be playing again in about 24 hours (Monday afternoon).

 

[The-Hawk]

Inclined not to trade Currency right now, reasoning as follows:
Only Mao has anything to trade G for it, and we'd only get 10 gold from Mao; plus, we can trade Poly to him for that next turn, get an additional diplo point and hopefully be able to trade Currency for Calendar. The downside would seem only to be that we lose 60 gold, and we can likely gain something like that in a few turns by trading HBR.

Will trade the deer to Roosevelt. Concur we should not trade CS at this time.

BTW, schedule for RL suggests I'll be playing again in about 24 hours (Monday afternoon).

Makes sense to me, no reason to give Currency away.

 

[Ronnie1]

no reason to give Currency away.

....well....there would be one reason maybe.

If we are trying to speed up the pace of the entire game, Currency in the hands of the AI is one of the few things that automatically helps them(ie: even the AI can't really screw up an extra trade route).

Just a thought...

 

[leif erikson]

That is a good reason R1.
And, hopefully, a plus up in diplo relations. We have a +1 with most civs now, how do we get to +4? By giving them things that help us as much, if not more, than it helps them.

I think we are nearing a time when we should consider who we want for a trading partner and who we want to neuter and make their lands work for us. It is quite hard to tell this without knowing the lay of the land, however, I cannot help but like those grass Gems in France's lands.

Getting Paper and better relations is what will help us separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"If we are trying to speed up the pace of the entire game, Currency in the hands of the AI is one of the few things that automatically helps them(ie: even the AI can't really screw up an extra trade route)." If G doesn't trade it, then we certainly will, but don't see reason to hurry.

 

[Cactus Pete]

No surprises, good progress

REPORT FOR TURNS 121(150AD)--127(300AD)

121: Trade Currency plus 65 gold to G for Monarchy (will wait for axe and cat to complete before revolting) and Poly; trade deer to Roose for 2gpt;

IBT: Stalin offers Meditation for 10 gold and is accepted; Moscow -- axe>cat; St. Pete -- cat>cat

122: Trade Poly to Mao for 20 gold; revolt to HR

IBT: France converts to TAO; France now WEnemy of India

123: Found Yekaterinburg (GPFarm) and begin granary; note G now has Aesthetics (probably have to race him to GLib)

IBT: Novgorod -- cat>sword; Church converts to Buddhism

124: Note Currency has not been traded; pigs now 68% French

IBT: HBR>Aesthetics; Church founds Warwick; Moscow -- cat>WE

125: Note French galley has exited Lyon to parts unknown without taking on board any units; note Paris is defended by 2 archers, axe, and 2 swords;

IBT: Rooose founds Seattle; G now WEnemy of Mao

126: No longer able to research at 100%, so trade Monarchy (everyone but Stalin and Church have it) to Church for 50 gold; trade HBR to G for Mono, Arch, and 75 gold; chariot encounters French archer on forest by dye

IBT: GPFarm expands (will net fishes); Church adopts HR; Moscow -- WE>WE

127: Note that trading with AIs has not been facilitated as a result of trading tech for gold, despite improvement in diplo points; pigs now at 61%;

Have to pause for RL, will continue in about 4 hours and complete turn set tonight.

Interim Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272672&stc=1&d=1289858706

 

[leif erikson]

Looking good CP.

Would be nice to get Calendar from Mao. Perhaps we should look to gift, or sell cheap, Monotheism to him? Then, if he is willing, perhaps Currency for Calendar?

Gandhi could be researching Feudalism or Paper, instead of Lit?

I am still looking longingly at Rheims, Orleans and Paris.

Too bad we don't have a Galley and a Settler, we could send De Gaulle to his own Elbe on the Island to the east of our GP farm.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Would be nice to get Calendar from Mao. Perhaps we should look to gift, or sell cheap, Monotheism to him? Then, if he is willing, perhaps Currency for Calendar?" No one else has Calendar, so I don't think he'd trade it if he did like us more. Going to wait and try to get more gold, plus probably trade Mono to America as well.

Playing now.

 

[leif erikson]

No one else has Calendar, so I don't think he'd trade it if he did like us more. Going to wait and try to get more gold, plus probably trade Mono to America as well.

Playing now.

I didn't necessarily mean right now...

Good Luck!