SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

We only have time for rexing until we need to build up galleys/swords/cats to take out Ragnar. Besides, he has better land than we do.

I think the settler that's about to be done should obviously go on the rice/spices/fish/dyes spot. I'm unconvinced how many more pre-war cities we want. The island next to Ragnar with the two dyes is probably worth claiming if possible. I don't think we need fur/crab until later though.

Things I'd like to see in the next turnset (~12 turns at this stage is probably ideal, maybe just go till alphabet):

*5th city built
*whip the library in corsica when this is possible
*one more galley (probably in corsica?) and worker (probably in elba). If we're lucky, we're getting iron working 2 turns after alphabet, which allows the jungle to be cleared early, and we'll also have hooking up stone to do.

if someone has time, work out efficiency of granary vs. lighthouse first in lyons. just figure out which gets us more total food and hammers over next ~50 turns. the four hammers we've put in so far isn't a big deal.
 
I don't think we need fur/crab until later though.
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With so many whips we will need every possible happy resource.

On other hand, what happened with our plans for Oracle and Lighthouse? Bureaucratic capitol with 3 coins/tile sea and a forge = a lot of money and swords/catapults.
 
Hi Guys,

I hear I'm UP!

I hope to spend a good deal of time tomorrow afternoon (GMT), and can wrangle more time after, coming up with the PLAN.

I spect I'll have some more newbie questions, eg. with how to get the saves etc, but perhaps I need to trawl further through these posts and it'll make sense.

Anyhow, will enjoy looking through and then batting some ideas off you.

inabit!
 
The Dude Esq said:
Hi Guys,

I hear I'm UP!

I hope to spend a good deal of time tomorrow afternoon (GMT), and can wrangle more time after, coming up with the PLAN.

I spect I'll have some more newbie questions, eg. with how to get the saves etc, but perhaps I need to trawl further through these posts and it'll make sense.

Anyhow, will enjoy looking through and then batting some ideas off you.

inabit!
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There are instructions for downloading and uploading in post #390. The server is back to normal so all the upload functions for screenshots and files are working as normal.

***Check AlanH's signature for the SGOTM page links, like Progress and Results Page, etc.

There has been discussion of the Oracle and Colossus as two GWs we might want. Where would we build them?

We also don't want to miss out on an easy circumnavigation for the extra movement which could be very nice, if not key to our success. So an east and west explorer would provide us with vital information like meeting our neighbours and getting a resource location map, trade and trade routes.

Then we'll need at least one (likely two) settlers. We also need some warrior MPs for each city. We don't want to be too weak when we meet our victims or we could be the victims. :rolleyes:

dima said:
Things I'd like to see in the next turnset (~12 turns at this stage is probably ideal, maybe just go till alphabet):

*5th city built
*whip the library in corsica when this is possible
*one more galley (probably in corsica?) and worker (probably in elba). If we're lucky, we're getting iron working 2 turns after alphabet, which allows the jungle to be cleared early, and we'll also have hooking up stone to do.

if someone has time, work out efficiency of granary vs. lighthouse first in lyons. just figure out which gets us more total food and hammers over next ~50 turns. the four hammers we've put in so far isn't a big deal.
Click to expand...
Hope this helps your planning.
 
Hello again,

I snuck (surely this the past tense of sneak) in a couple of hours this evening looking at 2metraninja's save.

First thoughts are: bloom en hell, we ain't got much defence! But then I s'pose we haven't really need too much, til Ragnar sends his Berserkers. But only three turns for a warrior in Corsica to get rid of the one 'we have no protection' hit point. Presumably we ain't whipping the library for science, (in the short term the 25% extra science will be lost with the pop,) rather to get the production queue moving and pop the border for extra hill. (Not sure why I decide to tell you all this, prob because it's nearly my bedtime so I'm just rambling.) So, yes, potentially galley then warrior. (It will def be good to explore around the gold.)

So makes sense to keep the settler / worker production line going in Elba. Can't remember but I think it's nine turns til we get the unhappiness back. So should have a think whether we need to let it grow again. On the other hand if we wont one quick ... (send present worker with settler, we'll need extra for Corsica mine and I'm sure we'll find him an odd job.

I tried a granary / lighthouse analyse in Lyons. I'm not sure I got it right, but I figure lighthouse beats granary. Both can be whipped at 4 pop (this should be 26turns) after this granary will take 13 turns to 3 pop, 7 turns to 4 pop, whereas lighthouse takes 7 turns to 3 pop, and again I get 7 turns to 4 pop. There should be double t overflow from the lighthouse (double production) 30 v 60. I assume we don't get double production on the whip!

As for sending the settler to the rice / fish / spice or crab / fur, should we consider that by working the beaver we'll be getting a nice amount of gold? My gut would say r/f/s?

anyhow, night
 
I think we must settle the r/f/s as it is better location purely "as it is" and also, the beavers are in our backyard, so I expect they to be less contessed, while the r/f/s site we could easily lose to Ragnar in the next few turns.
 
I'm afraid there may have been a small mistake in my fascinating lighthouse granary analyse last night (what can I say, was past my bedtime.) You can't get 60 hammers overflow! anyhow, after 23 turns you can whip the lighthouse for 1 pop. 'Concretely' proving lighthouse is better. Actually, we may get to a scenario were Lyon is growing too fast? (can I hear you shout, 'just whip harder'?)

Hope that's settled, but feel free to dispute with some of your own number crunching? Now on to the whole rest of the game.

I'm thinking like 2metraninja, and we shouldn't chance this rice / fish / spice spot. But, if we were gambling people ... we need to research Iron Working before the spot can pay any dividends. I may even send the worker in boat with settler, he can build a cottage on the one non-jungle grassland. Guessing lib will be first build. Like Keath said, we should think about defence.

I'm not going to disagree with what the experts say we should research, but now we have marble and (eventually) copper it seems a shame to waste it and not go for the Oracle / Colossus combo (ie research Mysticism / Med / Priesthood). (As mentioned, it will be some nice gold if we do miss it, I have no idea what time we can expect it to be otherwise built.) and obs Iron Working and Hunting for when we do settle near the beaver.

I might just say, strategically, in the mid long term, I too don't think we should prioritise settling islands which are nearly 'Tiny Starting Islands.' I think it'll slow us down. Yes, maybe pig / fish, but less so others.

Right, off for another look at the save. (it would be so much easier if I had it in front of me, I may try and get my girlfriend's old laptop to work.) Back in a jiff.
 
The Dude Esq said:
I might just say, strategically, in the mid long term, I too don't think we should prioritise settling islands which are nearly 'Tiny Starting Islands.' I think it'll slow us down. Yes, maybe pig / fish, but less so others.
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This seems to be a consensus, so we'll go for the r/f/s city and concentrate on building, for now.

Military buildup - we need a warrior in every city, so we need four if we include the rice/fish/spice city. It's been suggested to build a barracks in Corsica and it has the best production for now.

For defence, I'd build a fleet of ships, galleys for now and triremes when we have MC. Several stacks strategically placed would be our best defence and these ships will ultimately be our delivery system for conquest. I don't see how we can lose building a total of 8 or 9 galleys soon.

Iron Working and Metal Casting should be priorities - you can't always guarantee a trade for IW but we should be able to trade for the Mysticism line and build the Oracle (for MC?) in Caprice or Elba, wherever the hammers are best.

And Magellan east and Magellan west to meet our neighbours and hopefully an early circumnavigation. The only way to get it is to be first, so that is a priority, imho, and it also means better trade possibilities.

What are the teams thoughts on Wonder builds? Oracle, Colossus??? Is that all we need/want? Someone mentioned Pyramids. What about The Great Library? Any others?

It's also a good time to think ahead and plan how our cities will do the military buildup.
 
The Dude Esq said:
I tried a granary / lighthouse analyse in Lyons. I'm not sure I got it right, but I figure lighthouse beats granary. Both can be whipped at 4 pop (this should be 26turns) after this granary will take 13 turns to 3 pop, 7 turns to 4 pop, whereas lighthouse takes 7 turns to 3 pop, and again I get 7 turns to 4 pop. There should be double t overflow from the lighthouse (double production) 30 v 60. I assume we don't get double production on the whip!
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The first thing you should do is: Trade Open Borders with Victoria!

Production suggestions:

Lyons: Should whip Lighthouse before Granary. Remember Lighthouse can be whipped for only 1 person (at size 2), so switch to lighthouse before Lyon grows so that you can whip Lighthouse immediately when Lyon grows to size 2.

Have you noticed that there is a Jungle/Coast square just south of Lyons? The jungle removes 1 food from the square and is the fourth jungle inside Lyons BFC, giving Lyons +1 unhealthy. I'm not sure we will ever be able to chop the jungle...

Orleans: Even though Library is first priority since we need the border expansion, this city will never grow past pop 3 (without other buildings), meaning we have time to whip a Lighthouse before Library. So also here: switch to Lighthouse before Orleans grows to size 2, and then whip it immediately when Orleans becomes size 2. This wil not postpone Library, and the unhappiness from the LH whip will be gone before that anyway.

Wait a minute. I think I forgot our plan to chop the forest outside Orleans? That would of course be the fastest way to get the Library. By the time Orleans grows to size 2 (9 turns from now), we would then have enough production to whip the Library for 1 pop. Ideally you shouldn't chop the forest until exactly 1 turn before Orleans grows, otherwise we will loose 1 production per those turns. But do chop it before Orleans grows, since we then can whip Library immediately when Orleans grows.

Elba: Aften finishing Settler, we have (at least) two options: Either build a Worker since we hope to trade for IW when we get Alphabet. (Hopefully we have met more AIs by then, so it is important that our exploring WB continues west.) At the same time we then need to whip a Galley in Corsica (6 turns from now would be a good time then) which will bring the Worker to the Copper. After building Worker in Elba, we should build WB while growing to size 6, whip Library for 3 pop (at an approriate time, not sure exactly when), and continue building WBs while growing back to size. Remember Orleans need two WBs when its borders expands, which will be in 9+1+8=18 turns. The other option would be to do the same in a different order, but I think Settler -> Worker -> WB/Library/WB is the way to go.

As for sending the settler to the rice / fish / spice or crab / fur, should we consider that by working the beaver we'll be getting a nice amount of gold? My gut would say r/f/s?
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Yeah, let us settle the r/f/s. After the Worker has chopped the forest for Orleans (and maybe build a Cottage), we can transport it to our fifth city to help improve it after we trade for IW. (We really need IW after Alphabet, but that planning should be part of the next turnset, so I guess your turnset should stop when reaching Alphabet or before if something turns up?)

-jj-
 
All good strategic thoughts. But tactically, concentrating on my next ~12 turns, I am proposing:

Elba, finishes settler (5 turns); builds wb (6 turns, allows Elba to grow size 6, whip unhappyness dissipates after 9 turns, I calculate there will be 1 turn of 1 unhappy, wb can then explore a little, whilst ... ); then second settler (9 turns) with a view to settle with the fur; then with a view to whip lib (course will be nxt turnset by then)

Corsica; whip lib after 3 turns (measly 2 overflow); galley (10 turns); warrior (3); warrior again? (for justjohn to decide) but I would say lets get at least a little defence before we worry about a decent military with promotions.

Lyon builds lighthouse to start.

Orleans city carries on with lib.

If we send the worker with the settler at an estimate to build a cottage in 6 turns, we prob won't see him for about 20 turns. He could build a cottage near Elba, for less fuss? We're looking at 12 turns for Corsica border pop. (and whatever, it takes for pop to grow to three. we will get 1extra food for the grassland mine opposed to desert mine. Not sure what the consensus is for this worker run. We will wont a worker for that fur after all!

Those are my thoughts thus far. Certainly, there are more warrior / workboat / settler /worker / galley combinations, but this seems to make most sense to me.

Better do some housework now, before I get beaten with the wooden spoon.

Ed: thanks jj, I'll give your's a proper read on my next session. My whip / chop strategy def needs to be better, what can I say, I'm a treehugger - I just like those forests!
 
So we have two ideas for settler builds - the r/f/s site is agreed but what about the furs site? I'd build right on the fur and put a work boat on the crab so no need for a worker immediately - build a lh/warr work the crab/forest plain/fur for pop3.

BUT, we can do this later. As jj suggests, we have a few priorities for Elba - worker/work boats. I doubt we'd lose the fur site if we left it for awhile.
 
The Dude Esq said:
All good strategic thoughts. But tactically, concentrating on my next ~12 turns, I am proposing:

Elba, finishes settler (5 turns); builds wb (6 turns, allows Elba to grow size 6, whip unhappyness dissipates after 9 turns, I calculate there will be 1 turn of 1 unhappy, wb can then explore a little, whilst ... ); then second settler (9 turns) with a view to settle with the fur; then with a view to whip lib (course will be nxt turnset by then)

Corsica; whip lib after 3 turns (measly 2 overflow); galley (10 turns); warrior (3); warrior again? (for justjohn to decide) but I would say lets get at least a little defence before we worry about a decent military with promotions.

Lyon builds lighthouse to start.

Orleans city carries on with lib.

If we send the worker with the settler at an estimate to build a cottage in 6 turns, we prob won't see him for about 20 turns. He could build a cottage near Elba, for less fuss? We're looking at 12 turns for Corsica border pop. (and whatever, it takes for pop to grow to three. we will get 1extra food for the grassland mine opposed to desert mine. Not sure what the consensus is for this worker run. We will wont a worker for that fur after all!

Those are my thoughts thus far. Certainly, there are more warrior / workboat / settler /worker / galley combinations, but this seems to make most sense to me.

Better do some housework now, before I get beaten with the wooden spoon.

Ed: thanks jj, I'll give your's a proper read on my next session. My whip / chop strategy def needs to be better, what can I say, I'm a treehugger - I just like those forests!
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Elba: agree with finishing settler, workboat is ok, but definitely worker before next settler.
Corsica: agree, no need to think about past the galley anyway.
Lyons: agree
Orleans: agree

Worker motion: count turns to make sure the chop next to Orleans is on time. Everything else is lower priority, but try not to waste worker turns (pre-chop the forest on 2-tile island might be a thing to do before then. if we have time to road the copper jungle that's also useful.)
 
I would say lets get at least a little defence before we worry about a decent military with promotions.
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Agree - I am all against building barracks yet.

I'd build right on the fur and put a work boat on the crab so no need for a worker immediately
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Agree.
 
Yes Capital Ideas everyone! Golly Good Show!

I def agree, in light of (hopefully) getting Iron Working soon we will want at least one more worker. So def thinking Elba settler - warrior (only three turns) - worker then (and we should grow 1 pop, may as well) But I suppose, where is this warrior going to go, the galley 'il be off to piss off Ragnar.

Yes obs the chop in Orleans should take priority. I will look into the maths. I am right in assuming 5turns, 30 hammers, pre Maths, Epic speed? Not sure on that, pls someone confirm. So, maybe we should pre-chop the two island mass, but we will be losing turns with ferrying the worker / movements in forest.

Just to clarify, when we whip for lighthouse we will get 90 hammers / pop because we are Organised (not me personally, I am v unorganised.) That's rather nice. So I s'pose i doesn't actually matter whether we switch immediately or one turn before, as we get overflow. (Tho perhaps we may get a little more choice in what to build next, but granary is no doubt a good one.)

Am I right in thinking I'll get to choose the new city name? Any suggestions? If it's just left down to me it may be something obscene! Have we discussed it's first build (tho I will prob only have a hammer or two of it) we will want both a library and a lighthouse? I would say lib is the one to start, and we can whip lighthouse.

Joking about my organisation, well, actually I've prob let the side down a little. Forgot to mention I'm away Sat / Sun. Hope it wont put too much of a spanner in the works. Feeling ready to take the reins, so could squeeze in before / let someone else take over / more leisurely complete turns Mon and after. Not quite sure how the timetable works, and how you guys think the planning is nearing completion. And appreciate the game wont be rolling forward over the weekend; I'll leave my fate in your hands! Apologies!
 
The Dude Esq said:
Yes obs the chop in Orleans should take priority. I will look into the maths. I am right in assuming 5turns, 30 hammers, pre Maths, Epic speed? Not sure on that, pls someone confirm. So, maybe we should pre-chop the two island mass, but we will be losing turns with ferrying the worker / movements in forest.
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*slaps his forehead* You're right, it is 30 hammers, which I forgot in my last post discussing production in Orleans. With only 30 hammers from the chop, we need to build 60 before we can whip it. Since we have 24, it leaves 36, which is 12 turns at 3prod/turn. But then you cannot chop the forest until after those 12 turns, meaning it takes 13 turns until we can whip, and 14 turns until the Library is built. Which also means we should have time to built a Cottage directly on the forest (getting the chop at the same time as the Cottage is ready).

Just to clarify, when we whip for lighthouse we will get 90 hammers / pop because we are Organised (not me personally, I am v unorganised.) That's rather nice. So I s'pose i doesn't actually matter whether we switch immediately or one turn before, as we get overflow. (Tho perhaps we may get a little more choice in what to build next, but granary is no doubt a good one.)
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Correct. It doesn't matter as long as we don't exceed the 15 turn period before production decay.

Am I right in thinking I'll get to choose the new city name? Any suggestions? If it's just left down to me it may be something obscene! Have we discussed it's first build (tho I will prob only have a hammer or two of it) we will want both a library and a lighthouse? I would say lib is the one to start, and we can whip lighthouse.
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Yes, I do believe you're entitled to choose the city name, but I would vote for a real city name or something along with the story we are given (and hopefully not too obscene :P).

Joking about my organisation, well, actually I've prob let the side down a little. Forgot to mention I'm away Sat / Sun. Hope it wont put too much of a spanner in the works. Feeling ready to take the reins, so could squeeze in before / let someone else take over / more leisurely complete turns Mon and after. Not quite sure how the timetable works, and how you guys think the planning is nearing completion. And appreciate the game wont be rolling forward over the weekend; I'll leave my fate in your hands! Apologies!
Click to expand...

It is more important that you (and all of us) take the time we need rather than rushing through our timesets. Hence if you/we feel our plan is not ready before Saturday, then by all means wait until next week.

-jj-
 
If I'm right, the link in post #433 links to the same save as the one from the Progress and Results Page. So they are both the 'real McCoy'.
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I'd best stop randomly clicking around on it then!

Jokin' aside, corr, wasn't aware it was the actual one! (Clearly it needs idiot proofing for people like me!)
 
My suggestions:

self reserch mysticysm, and pop rush monuments in 3 new cites. much faster development i think. (we also get +1 happy)

alphabet after is ok

open boarders with victoria will raise coins instantly
 
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