justjohn
King
I prefer Alphabet first. Trading for Mysticism is never a problem (unless everyone build the Stonehenge), and it will come fast enough it seems to me. The Open Borders with Victoria should be done immediately ofc.
SGOTM 13 - TNT thread
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I prefer Alphabet first. Trading for Mysticism is never a problem (unless everyone build the Stonehenge), and it will come fast enough it seems to me. The Open Borders with Victoria should be done immediately ofc.
dima42
Prince
ditto on the alphabet>mysticism
The Dude Esq
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
- Messages
- 80
Well thanks for everyone's input and advice.
Just checking in as will be my last post for a couple of days. Hopefully I've taken all the thoughts onboard, so feel ready to take the reins on the actual game when I get back.
I s'pose in the meantime if anyone fancies doing some more bookwork, maybe we can think more laterally, like should we research mysticism before before alphabeta.
For all my fans who follow my every post, I'll come back on BST; it will be officially summer. Actually it's like summer at the moment, doubt it'll last. Have a good weekend everyone!
Just checking in as will be my last post for a couple of days. Hopefully I've taken all the thoughts onboard, so feel ready to take the reins on the actual game when I get back.
I s'pose in the meantime if anyone fancies doing some more bookwork, maybe we can think more laterally, like should we research mysticism before before alphabeta.
For all my fans who follow my every post, I'll come back on BST; it will be officially summer. Actually it's like summer at the moment, doubt it'll last. Have a good weekend everyone!
Definitely Alphabet. We should be able to trade for the Mysticism line but might need to research at least a few turns on Iron Working. Hopefully by then we'll have met most of the AI.
@The Dude -- If you play about 14 turns until Alphabet is researched then post the save, we could all have a look and decide what to research from there. Hope that's what you were planning. 
Edit: You should be prepared to stop and/or post a screenshot if something unusual happens and if you only want 10 turns, that's okay, too.
If anyone wants to to run some test games or post an updated one, we have the weekend before The Dude posts his plans.
Edit: You should be prepared to stop and/or post a screenshot if something unusual happens and if you only want 10 turns, that's okay, too.
If anyone wants to to run some test games or post an updated one, we have the weekend before The Dude posts his plans.
The Dude Esq
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
- Messages
- 80
Kool, well thought I'd post some final plans (just so I know what I'm doing mostly!)
Right,
Research: Alphabet
Diplomacy: Open borders with Vicky promptly (Though I would have thought since we haven't discovered her cities, trade routes will take a little time to come through(just noticed jj said the same). But, they will eventually come through the sooner we open borders, and we'll be buttering her up for our tech trading.
Production:
Elba: finishes Settler (5 turns); wb (6 turns); Worker (5 turns, I think we can squeeze the wb in first, (gaining us a few extra beakers, and getting to explore off East) (This is certainly about the time we get the galley back from its settler run, by the alternative build route we'll just get a fairly idle worker (I think the Corsica galley (to be built) is slightly longer, by the fact of the whipped lib.))
Corsica: whips Library (possible after 3 turns, ie therefore 4 turns); Galley (10 turns, Ed: now think this is slightly longer). Borders pop after 12 turns
Lyons: Starts on lighthouse (will grow to 2 pop in 4 turns for whip) Continues with granary.
Orleans: Continues with Library, (which with 1 chop and 1 whip can be completed in 12 turns)
New City, near fish / spices / rice starts with Library
Unit Movements:
Worker: Chops forest next to Lyon. Timed to get cottage and chop after 12 turns. Gets picked up after settler run.
Galley: Has four idle turns, but I work out he can just 'tickle' the gold island (the tile to the Southeast)whilst still getting back in time for the settler. (actually maybe he can go 1 tile North too; I will be careful, and try not to waste settler transport moves.) The run with the settler is 5 turns, and comes back to collect worker on Orleans in 3, which is nearly perfect. (2 turns back to Elba, where he can pick up new Elba worker, though this will use up the worker's movement on the turn he could off load near what will be our new mine (but this is what are first worker can do, we can send are second of to the copper. (Sorry I know I am gong well in advance of my turns, prob debating in far too much detail (and using far too many '()')
exploring wb: Continues West, along Ragnar's territory if poss.
So we can still debate (til the cows come home) settler - wb - worker, Or settler - worker - wb for Elba. maybe ultimately it doesn't make too much difference!
Obs, I take it these plans shouldn't be set in stone, if we're gaining or losing a couple of turns here and there, eg with worker moves and overflows, then I should be thinking on my feet / consulting you guys.
We'll see how it goes, but from these production lines 12 turns seems to be a good time to hand the game over.
Right,
Research: Alphabet
Diplomacy: Open borders with Vicky promptly (Though I would have thought since we haven't discovered her cities, trade routes will take a little time to come through(just noticed jj said the same). But, they will eventually come through the sooner we open borders, and we'll be buttering her up for our tech trading.
Production:
Elba: finishes Settler (5 turns); wb (6 turns); Worker (5 turns, I think we can squeeze the wb in first, (gaining us a few extra beakers, and getting to explore off East) (This is certainly about the time we get the galley back from its settler run, by the alternative build route we'll just get a fairly idle worker (I think the Corsica galley (to be built) is slightly longer, by the fact of the whipped lib.))
Corsica: whips Library (possible after 3 turns, ie therefore 4 turns); Galley (10 turns, Ed: now think this is slightly longer). Borders pop after 12 turns
Lyons: Starts on lighthouse (will grow to 2 pop in 4 turns for whip) Continues with granary.
Orleans: Continues with Library, (which with 1 chop and 1 whip can be completed in 12 turns)
New City, near fish / spices / rice starts with Library
Unit Movements:
Worker: Chops forest next to Lyon. Timed to get cottage and chop after 12 turns. Gets picked up after settler run.
Galley: Has four idle turns, but I work out he can just 'tickle' the gold island (the tile to the Southeast)whilst still getting back in time for the settler. (actually maybe he can go 1 tile North too; I will be careful, and try not to waste settler transport moves.) The run with the settler is 5 turns, and comes back to collect worker on Orleans in 3, which is nearly perfect. (2 turns back to Elba, where he can pick up new Elba worker, though this will use up the worker's movement on the turn he could off load near what will be our new mine (but this is what are first worker can do, we can send are second of to the copper. (Sorry I know I am gong well in advance of my turns, prob debating in far too much detail (and using far too many '()')
exploring wb: Continues West, along Ragnar's territory if poss.
So we can still debate (til the cows come home) settler - wb - worker, Or settler - worker - wb for Elba. maybe ultimately it doesn't make too much difference!
Obs, I take it these plans shouldn't be set in stone, if we're gaining or losing a couple of turns here and there, eg with worker moves and overflows, then I should be thinking on my feet / consulting you guys.
We'll see how it goes, but from these production lines 12 turns seems to be a good time to hand the game over.
dima42
Prince
.The Dude Esq
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
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- 80
Thanks,
with a high degree of trepidation, I'll carefully have a go at my first few turns ...
with a high degree of trepidation, I'll carefully have a go at my first few turns ...
The Dude Esq
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
- Messages
- 80
Hi Guys,
was going smoothly:
I got our exploring wb caught in a cul de sac (first tumbnail):
(Maybe I should have spotted him going up there one movement before, but I s'pose we would have wanted to see for sure it was a dead end.) So Ragnar will be settling those dyes sooner.
On the next turn I spot Nidaros has been whipped and there is a settler there. (second thumbnail) (But didn't see any galleys present, so fingers crossed our fish / spice / rice spot is still going to be vacant.
BUT THEN:
there is now a Barb Galley only a few hops away from Elba. (Third thumbnail.) Thankfully our galley isn't far away (I didn't take him far away to El' Dorado, as I recalculated and discovered there wasn't enough moves.) I haven't made any moves this turn (BC1525).
I take it we will want to use our galley first to fend off this abomination to Civilization? We prob haven't attacked any barbs yet, so will our victory be guaranteed? We can just get there to attack him before he gets to our clam. Alternatively, I usually play these galley and treme smashes defensively, but we can't defend both clam. Hopefully, by popping our galley in the way on one clam, the barb will go for it, rather than the other clam, but only v hopefully, I envisage he'll plunder the other? But we will have a greater chance of victory, and hopefully then the one clam. V V hopefully, sometimes these barbs have a habit of just wandering off. Or am I just being far too sunningly optimistic? We really don't want to lose our transport. Maybe we should even think about preparing to whip a second in Corsica now?
Just my luck, to get my computer to throw a barb galley at me!
What do people think: to attack or to defend?
Btw, I am on my third turn (BC1525). Corisca is ready to whip the library. Lyon will grow next turn, to whip lighthouse. I think the worker will chop and cottage just about on time for Orleans, (possibly one turn late, but I s'pose it's not a biggy, and we get our cottage, or could we switch to straight chop, then pick up our cottage?) So all going to plan there, tho obs, now our settler may be delayed.
Clam down everybody! Clam down!
was going smoothly:
I got our exploring wb caught in a cul de sac (first tumbnail):
(Maybe I should have spotted him going up there one movement before, but I s'pose we would have wanted to see for sure it was a dead end.) So Ragnar will be settling those dyes sooner.
On the next turn I spot Nidaros has been whipped and there is a settler there. (second thumbnail) (But didn't see any galleys present, so fingers crossed our fish / spice / rice spot is still going to be vacant.
BUT THEN:
there is now a Barb Galley only a few hops away from Elba. (Third thumbnail.) Thankfully our galley isn't far away (I didn't take him far away to El' Dorado, as I recalculated and discovered there wasn't enough moves.) I haven't made any moves this turn (BC1525).
I take it we will want to use our galley first to fend off this abomination to Civilization? We prob haven't attacked any barbs yet, so will our victory be guaranteed? We can just get there to attack him before he gets to our clam. Alternatively, I usually play these galley and treme smashes defensively, but we can't defend both clam. Hopefully, by popping our galley in the way on one clam, the barb will go for it, rather than the other clam, but only v hopefully, I envisage he'll plunder the other? But we will have a greater chance of victory, and hopefully then the one clam. V V hopefully, sometimes these barbs have a habit of just wandering off. Or am I just being far too sunningly optimistic? We really don't want to lose our transport. Maybe we should even think about preparing to whip a second in Corsica now?
Just my luck, to get my computer to throw a barb galley at me!
What do people think: to attack or to defend?
Btw, I am on my third turn (BC1525). Corisca is ready to whip the library. Lyon will grow next turn, to whip lighthouse. I think the worker will chop and cottage just about on time for Orleans, (possibly one turn late, but I s'pose it's not a biggy, and we get our cottage, or could we switch to straight chop, then pick up our cottage?) So all going to plan there, tho obs, now our settler may be delayed.
Clam down everybody! Clam down!
Attachments
The Dude Esq
Chieftain
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Just done some searching around on CivFanatics:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=158130
so apparently we don't get any free barbarian wins on Emperor. (two on Noble, one on Prince, nowt on Monarch either.)
Nice idea if we did!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=158130
so apparently we don't get any free barbarian wins on Emperor. (two on Noble, one on Prince, nowt on Monarch either.)
Nice idea if we did!
I'd like to hear from others about what to do in this situation.
My thinking is that we must get rid of this intruder even if he moves away. I also agree that defending is better. As I see it you have the option of moving our galley to intercept, take a chance on a lucky RNG and attack OR defend the near clam and hope he attacks you instead of moving to the second clam.
What has the best odds? If we attack and lose we'll have to replace two work boats and a galley and still have to chase him down.
My thinking is that we must get rid of this intruder even if he moves away. I also agree that defending is better. As I see it you have the option of moving our galley to intercept, take a chance on a lucky RNG and attack OR defend the near clam and hope he attacks you instead of moving to the second clam.
What has the best odds? If we attack and lose we'll have to replace two work boats and a galley and still have to chase him down.
The Dude Esq
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
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Yes, its 32% chance of victory for a straight attack. So vice versa if we are defending.
In that case, I guess the best chance is to set our galley on the clam and hope he attacks.
If the barb also suffers a 32% chance of victory for a straight attack will he attack or take the clams?enKage said:
Okay, if we sit on the clam and he destroys the other, we could fortify for +10% strength, then if he runs we'll have to (or could) attack him and by then rush a replacement in case we fail. In either case, we could put a turn into a galley in Corsica for a cheaper rush the following turn. Still, we'll lose the other clam if we lose defending or are forced to attack and lose.
The other option would be to defend the clam and follow him if he runs, hoping he'll eventually attack us. Then we'd need another galley transport anyway. Hmmm....
I did a couple of tests:
1. Attack the barb fails.
2. Defending on clam fails. He attacks and we lose but of course our RNG will be different for both cases.
However, he didn't even enter our territory on my first test but went to the crab tile! And there is always the chance that Vicki's work boat will explore our clams and be a first choice target.
When the barb didn't move into our territory, I moved him there. Perhaps it's time to make one move where we put a turn into a galley in Corsica (?). We'll need a new galley now, no matter what as one will have to be a defender and the other a transport.
What do you all think? Should The Dude move the galley, switch to galley build and then we can see what the barb does next?
1. Attack the barb fails.
2. Defending on clam fails. He attacks and we lose but of course our RNG will be different for both cases.
However, he didn't even enter our territory on my first test but went to the crab tile! And there is always the chance that Vicki's work boat will explore our clams and be a first choice target.
When the barb didn't move into our territory, I moved him there. Perhaps it's time to make one move where we put a turn into a galley in Corsica (?). We'll need a new galley now, no matter what as one will have to be a defender and the other a transport.
What do you all think? Should The Dude move the galley, switch to galley build and then we can see what the barb does next?
dima42
Prince
Move galley, switch to galley build for one turn.
If barb moves away: switch back to settler, finish settler, then build galley
If barb comes towards clams: whip galley, put current galley on the west clams.
Pretty sure barb behavior here is 100% attack the galley.
If barb wins: next production is another galley, and the newly built galley parks on the other clam (not attacks, even if 90%! Maybe if 98%.)
Also, cancel WB from the build queue for Elba unless we lose a clam.
If barb moves away: switch back to settler, finish settler, then build galley
If barb comes towards clams: whip galley, put current galley on the west clams.
Pretty sure barb behavior here is 100% attack the galley.
If barb wins: next production is another galley, and the newly built galley parks on the other clam (not attacks, even if 90%! Maybe if 98%.)
Also, cancel WB from the build queue for Elba unless we lose a clam.
dima42
Prince
Few comments, feel free to correct me since I haven't played water maps in ages:
*It's +10% for coast, not +20%
*There's no fortify bonus for sea units
*It's +10% for coast, not +20%
*There's no fortify bonus for sea units
Correct --> +10% bonus for coast, no fortify bonus.
This should work as our best chance. Good luck, Dude!!dima42 said:
justjohn
King
I agree with dima here. Put one turn into the Galley so that we at least have the option to whip it. We did want another Galley anyway. If we don't have to whip it (i.e. barb Galley moves away or attacks and looses or similar), then we just build it after the Settler. In that case we should maybe build a WB in Corsica instead? We just need to time it for our marble city's border expansion.
@The Dude Esq: I like it that you stopped playing and asked when running into a difficult decision. Being the new team this is the way to go for all of us, I think.
-jj-
@The Dude Esq: I like it that you stopped playing and asked when running into a difficult decision. Being the new team this is the way to go for all of us, I think.
-jj-
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