SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

[The Dude Esq]

Elba's food is on 32/45, with an excess of 9 food / per turn. If left to it's own devices, it will grow in two turns.

By whipping tow pop, the food for needed for growth will go to 41, and we will have 41 food anyhow. Could we slip one turn of growth in on Library, then switch back to settler, then even a worker? Presumably our overflow goes to settler, but I would be slightly scared of deleting the settler from our build queue. It will be 2 unhappy for 4 turns, then 1 unhappy for 11 more turns. (We'll def need some worker and settler to slow down growth, or wont be able to harvest our excellent food spots.) Hence maybe we shouldn't go for a worker in Corsica after all.

If I can get your thoughts on my Barb galley objections, I can come up with some detailed production lines for Elba and Corsica. (Even though I was thinking not to whip Corsica yet for the Lib, if we have exceeded it's food needed for growth, maybe I should just get on with it after all?)

Ed: actually my analyse of the Elba whip / growth is slightly wrong, as we wont necessarily get 9 food after are whip - but it proves we can get growth next turn!

 

[fizbankovi]

done with my exams.

any saves available?

im here all weekend! happy to contribute

 

[Keath]

done with my exams.

Hope you aced them!!

any saves available?

im here all weekend! happy to contribute

Over the last three pages we (The Dude Esq actually) have been shadow boxing with a barb galley that appeared from the northwest. We're finding that barb behaviour is erratic in how it targets between our galley, our netted clams for pillage and Vicki's work boat.

How much experience have you with barb galleys?

At this point, we're considering parking our galley on the ocean tile where the barb can't attack us. We hope he'll go away but if he chases Vicki's boat, that might even be worse for our transport of a setter to the rice/fish/spices site near Nidaros.

Or he could go for our clams. If he does, we have one turn prebuild on a fresh galley in Elba. We're discussing whether to whip now or continuing with the settler build.

@The Dude -- No matter how we whip, it would be good to get our settler and a new galley for transport. Then we could send both galleys with the settler if the barb heads south west. What is the worker that was being transported doing now? I assume building a cottage and chopping for Orleans?

 

[The Dude Esq]

@ Keath -- Yes, he's chopping and cottaging adjacent to Orleans. The chop will happen just in time, or there about, for whipping the library. There's no prob with Lyon either, ready to whip the lighthouse this turn.

Sorry for putting the spanner in the works! I'll go along with whatever we decide!

Ed: shall I load the present save on to Civfanatics server? tho spose not too much has changed since since I took over.

 

[Keath]

^^ Sure, upload the save here and then everyone can have a look. I would hope that we handle this barb with the least amount of alteration to our plans, BUT, an extra galley is not a backward step if we decide to whip one for safety.

 

[dima42]

Sorry, but it is not entirely clear to me: what are we trying to decide right now?
Welcome back, fizban!

 

[Keath]

Sorry, but it is not entirely clear to me: what are we trying to decide right now?
Welcome back, fizban!

Good point! I think we are responding to The Dude's idea of whipping the galley in post#500. The only thing about the whipping ideas is that it depends on what the barb does which is why a few posts earlier, everyone was onboard with switching back to the settler build, moving our galley to the ocean tile and making a decision the following turn.

I still think that's the best move but does it make much difference how we rush the settler/galley? Now there is the idea of rushing a worker in Corsica, too. At this time, Elba has hammers in a settler, a galley (1 turn) and a library. That's why a posted save might help everyone look at all the options.

I hope I have that right. Is that what you figure, Dude?

 

[The Dude Esq]

Ok, think this should upload the save

(I think I have managed to suggest every reasonably possible build queue; I don't really know what I'm suggesting now !)

 

[fizbankovi]

ok guys... i messed up.. moved the galley 2 SW. Realy realy sorry.

i will upload the save.

i was improving the dot map... and messed up. (had galley active, all the sudden he was in move mod, cos of right click, and couldnt cancel it.. i had right mouse pressed for like 2 minutes..., but didnt know how to cancel it)

i realy hope we wont loose the clams becouse of this

 

[fizbankovi]

this dotmap mod doesnt work. Realy. i cant remove, or add anymore stuff... after saving and loading again, it started working again. I got bugged here...

 

[fizbankovi]

i know this already apened 2 times now. I dont think we should even contact AlanH about this.. just live with my fail (i am realy hopping this wont actualy hurt us THAT much... we cannot loose calms just yet, and galley is blocking south route.)

 

[fizbankovi]

i think we should whip that galley now... god i hate this.

 

[The Dude Esq]

@fizbankovi -- Don't beat yourself up toooo much mate, like you said it's not too bad, else we could decide to contact AlanH (saying we got bugged). We think the Barb Galley may be chasing our galley, if so running away will be a v gd ploy.

Let's see what everyone else thinks (then I'll do what I'm told this time !)

(If I had played my turns we wouldn't be in this mess, ey?)

 

[The Dude Esq]

@Keath -- sorry, didn't explain my idea with the worker last night (and my posts are hardly easy to understand)

But, I would have thought tactically, surely it is better to build a settler or worker when a city is at the top of it's growth (in general terms, unless you want either quickly.) Hence slipping one into Corsica's build queue, (without whipping) then whipping the Library is a good idea. But then I thought Elba is going to be growing v quickly anyhow, and we might get 1 pop growth the turn after anyway, so a worker slipped in there will be good also.

Just another couple of ideas. (Thought I would just say I have v much enjoyed following the detailed debates on our (small) tactics, I must have quite an anal trait! (And yes, Dam It! - I want a full page and a half discussion now on Settler - Galley Or Galley - Settler!))

(Come on chaps, less action, more talking, I'd like to propose a motion, for the People's Front of Judea ... )

 

[The Dude Esq]

Ok, seriously now (sorry about my rant):

Assuming we take new save:

How about Elba: Whips galley now; Settler (1 turn) (We may now have a galley down South to transport, but this may need to go North depending); Library (1 turn of production); Worker (); then maybe getting this Lib finished.

It would be better to do things in a different move order Whip galley; Library (1 turn of production); settler (presumably still 1 turn from overflow) then a Worker; Library. But, I would be quite worried about accidentally erasing the settler from queue. And it all depends a little on what the Barb does. But if we do get lucky AND we get two galleys and a sunk Barb, two galleys moving around independently will be v nice.

So on to Corsica; Whip Library sooner rather than later? (I held off because: A; Corisca is at it's peak of production; B, we don't need the border pop just yet (But with a second Elba worker on it's way maybe we do); C, if we did need to Pop rush another galley, we have the option. With a fair Roll from the Barb, after the Library whip, hopefully then get started on some wbs.

The other cities are going to plan.

Please let me know what you all think: if this is any good, and finish off some trains of thought.

Cheers!

 

[dima42]

Ok, seriously now (sorry about my rant):

Assuming we take new save:

How about Elba: Whips galley now; Settler (1 turn) (We may now have a galley down South to transport, but this may need to go North depending); Library (1 turn of production); Worker (); then maybe getting this Lib finished.

It would be better to do things in a different move order Whip galley; Library (1 turn of production); settler (presumably still 1 turn from overflow) then a Worker; Library. But, I would be quite worried about accidentally erasing the settler from queue. And it all depends a little on what the Barb does. But if we do get lucky AND we get two galleys and a sunk Barb, two galleys moving around independently will be v nice.

So on to Corsica; Whip Library sooner rather than later? (I held off because: A; Corisca is at it's peak of production; B, we don't need the border pop just yet (But with a second Elba worker on it's way maybe we do); C, if we did need to Pop rush another galley, we have the option. With a fair Roll from the Barb, after the Library whip, hopefully then get started on some wbs.

The other cities are going to plan.

Please let me know what you all think: if this is any good, and finish off some trains of thought.

Cheers!

If you're putting a turn of production into the library, the overflow will automatically go to the library. So you want settler immediately after galley. Plus putting in some growth turns building library isn't so bad.

Assuming you're running windows, single left-click is what you do when you want to take something off from queue but save the shields.

 

[Keath]

^^cross post with dima

ok guys... i messed up.. moved the galley 2 SW. Realy realy sorry.

The galley moved 2 SE actually.
@fizbankovi - I know just how you feel but we can play with this move. We're going to find out if the barb chases galleys and work boats or prefers clams. Actually, a similar move was suggested - ie. see if the barb will follow us away from the clams. We're going to find out.... The only problem is that he will land next to our west clam and may then reroll for a choice of chase or pillage.

@ the team - I see no reason to ask AlanH to give us another break so if all agree, we'll live with this move. It just restricts our choice for this one event. It could have been worse.... I think the right move in Elba is to whip the galley ==> settler. Set the new galley on the west clams and wait for our fate.

@The Dude Esq - I don't think the settler builds get erased if you remove it and put it back into the queue but building it after the galley whip seems the most expedient.

@ Team - If we then follow with Library or is it better to build a worker and whip it into the Lib? And in Corsica, 2pop the Library for 18 hammer overflow? What about whipping the lighthouse in Lyons bringing it down to pop1, with granary to follow?

Anything else we need to consider before TDE finishes his turnset?

 

[dima42]

Anything else we need to consider before TDE finishes his turnset?

No .

I actually like the attention to detail here, but unfortunately it will be impossible to keep it up and still win a military game on time (deliberating after the move of every galley becomes very difficult once you have twenty of them). So I have the following suggestion for those of you who aren't used to playing naval warfare at emperor+:

Play a game!

So you don't need to worry about playing the opening (since we've already done that ), I've played the opening for you. (Somewhat lazily, might I add, but hey, you have a few cities and the GLH.) The game is BOTM 16, so you'll get to compare results at the end.

So: your mission, should you choose to accept it, is basically to 1. make an army, and 2. conquer the world. To make your life easier, you have the GLH, but to make your life harder, this is immortal rather than emperor.

 

[2metraninja]

had galley active, all the sudden he was in move mod, cos of right click, and couldnt cancel it.. i had right mouse pressed for like 2 minutes..., but didnt know how to cancel it)

Next time just click with the left button and release the right

I think we should just continue. And while continuing, maybe we just need to start on 2 workboats - may be better investment than a galley in this case. The barb galley will destroy the nets and move on. We rebuild, life goes on. To the next time these galleys appear.

 

[The Dude Esq]

Right, thanks everyone, I shall get on with it!?

Actually I've been attempting some throws in the HOF Challenger Series:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=370

Challenge - IV - 02 is an Archipelago Map, Monarch, with Willem again and specifically with Domination as VC. If anyone wanted to try? I've played sloppy in my last few attempts (hence I felt I wanted to give up) but playing crisper in current one. Embarrassingly, I've lost my attempts at some of the other Emperor games in the series. And even more embarrassingly, I lost the first in series on Noble, but going for a Diplo Victory! (Only a few votes away; so near, yet so far.) So still need my first win, and to sign up for the series.

@Dima, I take it BOTM 16 plays on current version of Buffy. Actually I think I have a previous version of BTS installed in the bowels of my computer. Just to check. Thanks for the suggestion.

Right, there's my plug. Onwards and Upwards.

(Ed: Actually one comment I might make from my HOF games, though I been getting GLH with no probs, Oracle and Colossus have been proving trickier to get, sometimes going what seems pretty early. Since they would def be v useful for our map, I would second the suggestion to prioritise them sooner. Tho obs we don't want to stifle our REX and exploration. I would think Corisca is the best place to build them. (We can get two mines and Quarry, but not over booming with food. ) Unless we dig up some Iron on Elba maybe; pls, pls fair mapmaker give us Iron!)

Ed Ed: @2metra -- A sound plan and certainly one way we could play. But to me whipping the galley seems sharper - we should be able to save at least one clam. (But then that is depending on 1 Roll isn't it?)