SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

[justjohn]

I played one turn and on the next turn the Bug mod told me that Elba will become unhappy on the next turn. I guess the solution to this is to put to build a settler.?

Sorry that I haven't had time to discuss for a while, and it doesn't seem to get much better the next 1-2 weeks. But I have one comment.

Which turn are you on, 2metraninja? If it is the end ouf our last plan (which would be turn 74 if you start at turn 0, so the next turn is turn 75), then the unhappiness from the first whip should end next turn. The BUFFY mod does not understand when unhappiness is about to expire, so it will say Elba will be unhappy next turn, even if the unhappiness ends so that Elba will still be happy.

Furthermore, if the plan is to build a Settler from the next turn (which I guess it is), then there is no point in preventing the growth even if Elba becomes unhappy. As we all know, unhappy men will not produce anything. Usually they still consume 2 food, which is why we try to avoid them, but they do not consume 2 food if we're building a Settler or Worker! I am not sure of the logic behind it, but all food is converted into production, as we all know, and the 2 food that the unhappy men should have consumed, are not subtracted, meaning we will produce exactly the same (when building a Settler or Worker) as if we had not grown.

-jj-

 

[Keath]

^^ Good points, jj. I just got back home. Hope to do some testing tomorrow. I agree with a three pop whip for a settler. I also think we'd be wise to build another galley. One question is what we research -- Alpha for trade, or Mysticism and Masonry to set up the Oracle and Colossus. Unless we find a couple more AI, I'd go for Myst and then when we meet some more 'trading' partners, I'd switch, if that seems like the best move.

More tomorrow.

***Please note that the attachment upload problem is repaired, so 2metra could upload a pic and/or save for everyone to have a look.
-k

 

[enKage]

Mysticism is a must as quick as possible even if we wont get oracle (remember we're charismatic)

 

[Keath]

A thought about our purpose:
The purpose of the SGOTM competition is to learn as well as compete. The idea is to try out the ideas that the team agrees will get us our Conquest/Domination victory the quickest. But learning is the main purpose. I know I have a lot to learn and these SGOTM games are the best way to improve. The discussions we have are key to both learning and picking the right path to victory.

So far, we have established our capitol to be a Settler pump and get a Rapid EXpansion to the islands around us. We might call this Stage 1 -- REX.

Then we need to find everyone, map out where they are and formulate a further expansion. Key questions are:

1 Which direction are the nearest AI - likely Victoria and Ragnar? Vicki came from the east and Ragnar first showed up from the south west. In tests I’ve done, he shows up from this direction even though he is to the east.

2 We should consider this phase as Stage 2 - Exploration.

3 Likely before we go to war we will want to pick a trading partner and get whatever techs we need. This raises the question of research and what technologies are the absolute minimum we need. We won’t need anything we can’t use so choosing a research path is very important, methinks. Call this Stage 3 - Research and Trade.

4 We need to get our army/navy together and formulate a plan to capture our enemies cities, especially those with Stonehenge, etc. Call this Stage 4 - Conquest.

Which victory condition would be quicker - Conquest or Domination? It likely doesn’t affect the first stages, but we’ll need to monitor our progress.

It’s too bad that the Statue of Zeus is useless. It sounds like a good idea but I have to admit I’ve never built it. But if an AI gets it, it would be us who gets double the war weariness so this might be a target city for that AI when it comes time to conquer them.

I think we're at a stage in the game where we need to carefully map out our plan.
Ideas?

 

[2metraninja]

Since we are researching Alphabet now, should we switch immediately to the Oracle path?

 

[justjohn]

Since we are researching Alphabet now, should we switch immediately to the Oracle path?

I vote for finishing Alphabet first. By the time we have it, we will hopefully have met more AIs, and then trading for Mysticism, Masonry and other basic techs should be easy. Also, we will be able to tell if anyone is already building certain wonder since then they will not trade the required tech with the message "We have our reasons."

If the plan is to build two Settler quickly, then clearly it is better to build the first one and whip only the second. Whipping the first Settler wll get the first quicker, but the second much slower.

-jj-

 

[Keath]

I vote for finishing Alphabet first. By the time we have it, we will hopefully have met more AIs, and then trading for Mysticism, Masonry and other basic techs should be easy. Also, we will be able to tell if anyone is already building certain wonder since then they will not trade the required tech with the message "We have our reasons."

If the plan is to build two Settler quickly, then clearly it is better to build the first one and whip only the second. Whipping the first Settler wll get the first quicker, but the second much slower.

-jj-

I would say these are good reasons to go ahead and finish Alphabet.

@2metra, are we able to research at 100%? The trick is to go with 0% for enough turns to research it quickly once enough cash reserves are available, but I'll bet you knew that anyway.

 

[Keath]

And further to our purpose for the SGOTM.....

- HAVE FUN!!!!! -

 

[The Dude Esq]

Thanks Keath,

better start doing some homework then! starting at post #351.

never signed up for this, jokes. Still keen to play, I did say after all all I wanted to learn plenty of strategy. Never knew playing an 'Emperor' game you elite guys really do so much thinking, or is it just for this succession game? maybe that's why I can never win on this level.

Are we still playing through a Test game? When should I expect to leave the deck? (I think I just about got the meaning of this, tho I had presumed this was an old navy saying, back in the days of ol' Nelson, for starting the nightwatch or somat. I'm sure you're right.)

Right better start these post. Do my my background research, and aim for a Gold Star.

p.s. the tea is brewing well, ta. master brewer me.

 

[The Dude Esq]

And I second:

And further to our purpose for the SGOTM.....

- HAVE FUN!!!!! -

 

[Keath]

Thanks Keath,

better start doing some homework then! starting at post #351.

never signed up for this, jokes. Still keen to play, I did say after all all I wanted to learn plenty of strategy. Never knew playing an 'Emperor' game you elite guys really do so much thinking, or is it just for this succession game? maybe that's why I can never win on this level.

Yes, we do have some elite players, lucky for all of us. (I'm not one of them..... but I'd like to learn.)

Are we still playing through a Test game?

We are beyond turn 75 and 2metraninja is playing his turnset.

When should I expect to leave the deck? (I think I just about got the meaning of this, tho I had presumed this was an old navy saying, back in the days of ol' Nelson, for starting the nightwatch or somat. I'm sure you're right.)

Right better start these post. Do my my background research, and aim for a Gold Star.

p.s. the tea is brewing well, ta. master brewer me.

When 2metra posts his summary and uploads the game to the server, you will download the save, post an "I got it!" and design a turnset of about 10 to 15 turns. Then you'll post your plan and we'll comment and when everyone's happy, you play your turns.

Refer to post #390 for instructions for downloading and uploading.

 

[Keath]

***To the team -- I am being pretty elementary with instructions because I know that the first time you play a succession game, it can be a bit worrisome, even intimidating. "What if i make a mistake?" Horrors..... Remember, anyone can make a mistake or fumble a misclick!

If you do make a blunder and don't really know how to recover, post what happened with a pic or upload the save. Someone may have a solution you hadn't thought of. I'm hoping that everyone will feel comfortable about posting ideas and asking simple questions during their turnset or at any time.

Once we're up to speed and everyone has had a turnset, things should run smoothly and I shouldn't have to spam the obvious.

But please ask those newbie questions!

After a set or two, you'll be a veteran and by then we'll be in the heat of battle.

And it's really great if everyone comments, even if it's just to agree with the plan. Being involved is half the fun.

Edit: @2metra - how's it going?

 

[2metraninja]

I have some good and some great news!

Stopped to ask you guys for opinion on few cases.

I Will come back to explaining and posting some pics a bit lately. Have to photograph some things in the studio before this. In the meantime you stay and shiver with expectation about the news

 

[2metraninja]

So, here we are:

SE I found a source of COPPER!

Also, built 1 settler and loaded it at the galley. Where should I first go to settle? The furs or the marble?

And about the marble, where you think is better location for the marble city?

Also, now when the first settler is ready, should I go for the second settlerm whip it and wait for the galley to returns and pick-up the second settler or just whip the second settler with maximum overflow and then while growing wait to build/whip a second galley, which we will need anyway?

Or just to upload the save at this point and let the next guy decide and take responcibility for this decision?

 

[dima42]

metra, could you post a full screenshot (or set of screenshots)? i'd be curious to the location of the furs and copper.

 

[justjohn]

SE I found a source of COPPER!

Also, built 1 settler and loaded it at the galley. Where should I first go to settle? The furs or the marble?

Actually, it would be easier to form an opinion on this if I could have the save game file. Then I could see more of the map (area around the fur island, area around the copper etc) and also other factors (when is it likely that we would need any of the mensioned resources, how long it will take us to get a worker around to improve tiles, when is it likely that we can trade for some needed techs etc)

And about the marble, where you think is better location for the marble city?

If we don't put a city on the marble island, we would need a fort to access it. I think we should have a city there. On top of the marble seems a good choice, but next to it is also possible. Depends on how many cities we plan to have around our capital.

Also, now when the first settler is ready, should I go for the second settler whip it and wait for the galley to returns and pick-up the second settler or just whip the second settler with maximum overflow and then while growing wait to build/whip a second galley, which we will need anyway?

Or just to upload the save at this point and let the next guy decide and take responcibility for this decision?

Good questions, and not easy to answer without having a closer look! As I wrote above, a related question is how many cities do we want in our neighbourhood? As for myself, I would need a look at everything we have uncovered so far (i.e. the visible map) before I can make up my mind. The reason I bring this up, is ofc that once we have decided on good city locations, we probably want them all up as soon as possible, don't we? Of course, this must be balanced against the level of barb protection we are going to need in the near future.

-jj-

 

[Keath]

Copper discovery is great news!!

@2metra -- I would suggest this is a good spot to post the save on our thread if you wish to continue or post the game to the Progress and Results Page if your turns are done. It's up to you, but I'd like to see the save and I'm sure others would, too. Planning city locations should produce some good discussion, I think all would agree.

Nice going 2metra!!

Edit: Could you change the name of Paris to a name of your choice? It seems fizbankovi forgot. You could probably clean up his notes overlay, too.

 

[2metraninja]

OK, so it is ok if I upload the save up to this point so anyone can see it?

I am uploading it.

Spoiler :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=285005&stc=1&d=1300482542

II can swear I took few screenshots of the copper island, but it turns out I dont have such pictures. Anyway - you can see for yourself by the save game.

 

[Keath]

After a quick look, a few thoughts:

1. The northern crab/furs site - the city could be placed one north on the first fur...
2. It would be good to have the southern work boat expose the coast tiles around the marble island so that we could decide if one south west of the marble, procuring the shellfish might be best....
3. The copper site has fish which is perfect and might even qualify as a first priority. If we don't take it soon, it might be grabbed by Vicki or Ragnar.

OR, send the settler to offload on the marble, move the galley back. 3 pop the settler and then move it aboard the galley. In seven turns we'd have the copper site settled. I might consider settling right on top of the copper, otherwise we'll need iron working just to clear the jungle and mine the copper.

What do you think, team?

 

[2metraninja]

Good point about the settling priority and the possibility of the AI taking our precious metal. I daubt if they are so close to us and so pressed for space so to try naval movement and settling, but better be safe than be sorry.

Also sounds good to settle the marble (at place where we agree on and then to move the galley to pick up the next settler.

Settling on top of the copper is ok if we want to use it early when it does make serious difference, but at this hammer- poor map - is it a good idea to waste a 5 hammer mine?