SGOTM 14 - One Short Straw

[Dhoomstriker]

We'll be watching. Feel free to give frequent updates if you see the need. Regardless, I'm sure that you'll try your best, which is already a success in my mind, no matter what the outcome.

 

[Mitchum]

OK, I played according to the plan... well almost according to the plan. It turns out that Warrior 1 had already moved on T39 in the real save. That means that he was fully healed one turn later than planned and his movements were delayed by a turn. No biggie, right. If that was the most unexpected thing that happened, it would be a great turnset, right?

Regarding barbs, we're in great shape. The only barb I saw was the barb lion last spotted by ZPV near the marble. I put a note on the map of his last known location. The SE is completely clear. There is one tile in the fog (marble-1N) but had there been a barb on it, it would have appeared this turn on an un-fogged tile. Our warrior was spawn busting that square as of last turn, so no new barbs could have spawned there. I think we're on for settling Marble next if that's what we choose to do.

Warrior 1 scouted the NW and found no more resources. There is some land 2NW of the GHill though. Warrior 1 is happily spawn busting in his assigned place.

Warrior 2 found some sheep to the SW. We can have a nice city there with crabs, clams, sheep and 1/2 sugar.

The only thing of interest that happened was that we met the Wicked (Genghis Khan) and Good (Elizabeth) Witches of the North on T43. Both were at Cautious with us at 0. Genghis is the founder of Judhism and has the top city. Genghis has 1 city and Liz has 2. I set an espionage value of 1 to them (you can't set it to one but must set it to both team members). The current espionage ratio is 36/16. Liz's scout is heading toward our stone, which should help spawn bust the area until Warrior 3 get get up there.

Stonehenge was completed on T44/45 (2240 BC). We'll have to compare this to when it's been going in our test games.

Here's a screen shot of the land to the west that was explored this turnset.

Spoiler :

Turn log:

Spoiler :

Turn 39, 2440 BC: New York has been founded.

Turn 44, 2240 BC: You have discovered Writing!
Turn 44, 2240 BC: You have trained a Warrior in Washington. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 44, 2240 BC: Stonehenge has been built in a far away land!

Turn 45, 2200 BC: Washington has grown to size 5.
Turn 45, 2200 BC: Will Sign Open Borders: Good Witch of the North, Wicked Witch of the North

Attached is the demo data if anyone wants to see it.

 

[shyuhe]

Interesting -- they came from the north? So is this more like a wheel map than a hub map? Or maybe Neil added land bridges to a hub map between the hubs?

Do we want to add OB to try accumulating diplo points? Or is it a waste?

edit: nice to see that we will only need one more spawn buster near the gold to give us advance warning of barbs.

Also, I'm 95% sure that this is a modified hub map with land bridges between the various hubs and the Wizard in the middle. This would also account for the extra land on our map compared to a standard hub map.

 

[Mitchum]

Here is an updated test game. We've met the AI from the north (Pacal) on the right turn. Beakers are exact.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Good job, Mitchum! I think the SW warrior can go at least on the first forest if not the second, to explore a bit more. Alos he can reveal that one water tile to the west, This could also be in conjunction with Elixabeth's scout.

SH is pretty early. Not surprising since three different AIs got religions.

Not sure we want to give them the TRs of OBs. They're already kicking ass enough for my taste.

Onward!

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Looks good, Mitchum!

We could also set up a Clam + Wheat + Sheep + Sugar City, if we settle on a Silk (since settling on a Silk would otherwise waste 2 Grassland Hills squares to the NW of Gem City), in order to not waste one of those Grassland Hills squares, while having another City for Crab + Sheep.

Obviously, these Food Resources would be shared between Cities--I am just listing all of the Food Resources, including overlapping ones, to make it clearer where I mean (3W of Gem City and 3SW + 1W of Gem City).

Interesting -- they came from the north?

Okay, I am confused now. Did the AI Scout come from south of Gem City or from the north of our area?


Open Borders?
Diplo points for Open Borders could be good, since AIs are going to be tougher to trade with than normal, while you get the Open Borders bonus with both AIs (although I'm not sure if it is "halved" and therefore might take twice as long to accumulate).

One possible concern would be if a later AI that we meet has these AIs as their Worst Enemies... but we can always cancel an Open Borders agreement in the future in such a situation, if we feel the need.

I love AI units as spawn-busters. There is the small thought that if we can expand Gem City's borders and "trap" that Scout within our area... unless... it seems like shyuhe was saying that maybe the Scout came from the north? Anyway, that reason might be one reason not to give Open Borders--if we feel that we can trap an AI Scout within our area to help with spawn-busting and Barb-unit-absorbing.

 

[Mitchum]

OK, give me some time to put together a PPP for the next several turns. In general, Settler 3 and Warrior 3 will do a do-si-do on this turn so that Warrior 3 can start his trek northward to the stone area. Marble will be settled 1W of the marble on T+1 and begin putting hammers into a library until Sailing is in and it can start a LH. It will steal Washington's corn right away while Washington finishes it's worker using the just completed mine. After a worker, Washington will build a Library (or worker?). Worker 1 will finish the wheat farm and then a) mine a PH in Gems City which may not get used for a long time, b) head east to help chopping the GLH/Mids or c) chop a library in Gems? Worker 2 will finish the PHill mine in Washington and then build a mine on the marble (or GHill?)

Feedback on this is welcome while I work out the details... after volleyball.

 

[Mitchum]

Good job, Mitchum! I think the SW warrior can go at least on the first forest if not the second, to explore a bit more. Alos he can reveal that one water tile to the west, This could also be in conjunction with Elixabeth's scout.

Are you suggesting that Warrior 1 move to the forest 1S and then the to next forest 1SW? And then, spawn bust from there until Liz's scout comes back and then move 1NW (1SW of the sheep) to the plains tile to reveal the coast?

@Dhoom
The scout came from the south, but the leaders are the "Witches from the North" so they are likely our neighbors to the west.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, I assumed the scout came from teh north. SO it's not heading back to the south, unless there's no outlet to the north. It will be interesting to see if that scout makes it back, thus indicating a landlock.

Anyway, I would suggest this:

warrior 1S-1N-1W-1E-1N-1S-fortify. Defog as much as possible safely, in short.

 

[Mitchum]

Where does everyone stand on the 'Mids? Build them in the capital with a quick library in Stone or build them in Stone to keep our gpp gene pool pure?

@LC and ZPV, what were you doing with Worker 1 after the wheat farm?

 

[shyuhe]

I thought ZPV's tests were cranking out the first GS before the Mids completed in Washington.

 

[Mitchum]

Yes, ZPV did get a GS prior to the 'Mids. Why do you ask? Are you thinking that we should build a library next in the capital instead of a worker? Or are you thinking that keeping the gpp gene pool pure isn't a big deal since we'll already have an academy?

 

[shyuhe]

I don't think we need to keep the gpp pool pure after the academy. Is there something that we really need a GS for after an academy?

 

[Mitchum]

LC mentioned the possibility of using our second GS to bulb Philosophy. If we know that we're going to get two quick GSs, settling the first and building an academy with the second can be strong too.

 

[mdy]

As long as we get one GS before we finish the mids I don't mind if we contaminate the GP pool in the capital either. As we are philosophical we should be able to generate a 3rd GP if we get an engineer in the capital without delaying philosophy by much (if at all).

 

[shyuhe]

Plus we can use a GE to rush any number of awesome wonders. MoM coming to mind first, of course.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I do not mind the GPP "pollution." My concerns are more that:
a) We don't accidentally double-count Forests (i.e. if we are saving a Forests for Marble City's Great Lighthouse, let's not count it towards the capital's The Pyramids)
AND
b) We are relatively confident with the Wonder dates that we will get using whichever plan that we end up using


Is there a particularly swaying reason to go for one plan over the other? I think that we'll be commmitted to building The Great Lighthouse in Marble City once Settler 3 moves there... if we'll be short on Forests as a result, then perhaps we need to put The Pyramids in Stone City.

Also, if we're just thinking of Mining a Plains Hills square that we aren't going to work, would it maybe make more sense to put a Chop into the capital's Library? I don't like throwing out random micro comments like this one because they probaby will not fit with the overall plan.

I'd much rather see us take one of the test games' approaches and follow it relatively rigorously in terms of Chopping pattern, Worker improvements, and build orders. I just don't know which approach that we are taking.

 

[Mitchum]

@ Dhoomstriker

I agree that we should follow one of the test games through the completion of the GLH/'Mids. We seem to be leaning toward the GLH in Marble since it gives us access to the land south of us. However, I'm not sure where we want to put the 'Mids. I think that they can easily be built in either Stone or Washington. Stone would only be at 1 pop working the stone quarry, so most of it's hammers would come from chops. Washington would be at 5+ pops working mines and such so fewer hammers would need to come from chops.

I didn't want to futz with 'Mids in Washington if people were worried about gpp pollution, which doesn't seem to be the case (other than ZPV ). Maybe now is a good time to run a few quick test games with the GLH in Marble and the 'Mids in either Stone or Washington so that we can compare them. I'll try to run some tests tomorrow for 'Mids in Washington since ZPV has covered the Stone option quite well. I have yet to re-create his feat yet, but I haven't really tried either... If we choose 'Mids in Stone, I'll ask ZPV to provide some guidance.

I'm personally leaning toward the 'Mids in Washington because Stone in ZPV's save is not developed (no infra, no fishing boats, no forests, one pop). It would be nice to chop a quick library there for a border pop to pick up the gold and rice and to enable us to push our spawn busters out sooner.

 

[ZPV]

Well played so far, Mitchum!

The demographics screenshots you've given us are *probably* enough to work out everything we could anyway. The other one I've been looking at is the Resolutions tab of the victories screen, since that tells us the human population (in comparison with the domination victory threshold which includes barb pop).

Both Liz and Temujin proudly proclaim their best unit is an Archer. They don't have copper or horses either.

Yes, espionage is done per team, not per player.

I think there's enough information to deduce that every team has 2 players - because Liz+GK are the most populous.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

If Espionage is done per team, then does that mean that they get two for the price of one, in that they get double the passive benefits?

If so, this game isn't going to be a good one for stealing techs.

That said, it will be funny if one AI on a team "ruins things" for the other AI by continuously executing Spy Missions, such as Sitting Bull and his infamous Water Supply Poisoning.

"What do you mean that I can't spend both my and your Espionage Points? They're shared! What's the big deal? Muahahaha."