SGOTM 14 - One Short Straw

[ZPV]

OK, here is my updated plan through completion of the Marble settler. I will stop any time a barb is seen to get feedback.

T39 - Warrior 1 takes Woody I promotion and heals (1T). Warrior 2 heal in Gems (3T). Wkr 1 completes chop at Washington-1N

T40 - Washington completes Wkr 2 and starts Settler 3 to catch OF hammers (1T). Warrior 1 moves W onto GForHill. Wkr 1 and Wkr 2 move to PForHill at Washington-NW.

Wkr1 should chop then move 2E onto the desert so it can mine the gems right away.
That means that the several extra worker turns to get worker 2 there only speed the mine up by one turn, and probably aren't worth it - instead worker 2 should stay and focus on washington and marble.

 

[Mitchum]

Wkr1 should chop then move 2E onto the desert so it can mine the gems right away.

Duh. I was chopping this hill in my previous testing, so I had it in my mind that we had to go there first.

That means that the several extra worker turns to get worker 2 there only speed the mine up by one turn, and probably aren't worth it - instead worker 2 should stay and focus on washington and marble.

I'll wait to hear back on how slotting in a warrior affects the GLH date. If not, I think a warrior in 3 turns while growing to 5 pops is the way to go.

EDIT: The MM details LC suggested should be no issue once I've worked them out with the test game. No worries.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I vote for building a warrior now in Washington but catching any overflow/chops into the settler.

I'm not sure if you'll actually get a Chop in time, but:
1. The less Food that we collect while building a Warrior, the better, for now, since that Food won't contribute to a Settler, as long as we don't grow to Size 5
2. I don't see how saving overflow for a Settler, if we're going to complete a Warrior first, helps, unless we plan to grow to the next City Size (Size 5). If we aren't planning on growing to the next City Size, it could actually be better to catch overflow and/or Chops into a Warrior.

In fact, if we don't mind delaying the Warrior slightly, then Worker 2 could put its first Chop into a Warrior, completing the Warrior in a single turn, meaning that more of our Food would go toward completing a Settler (we would build a Settler until the turn that we Chopped a Forest, meaning that we'd only spend 1 turn building the Warrior) and less Food would go into a Foodbox where it would sit and rot until it was time to grow to Size 5.

That said, LC's micro-management option might work, too, if we're okay with growing to Size 5. Doing so might not pay off enough in the short run in terms of Hammers relative to Chopping the Warrior, though, due to the Food cost to grow to Size 5.

overflow from the worker and the chop into the warrior, generate a little overflow gold

I am sorry to report that overflow Gold does not exist in the current patch. It exists in the BULL .dll, since that .dll contains user-created fixes, but it does not exist in BUFFY. So, any excess overflow Hammers purely disappear.

 

[Mitchum]

@ Dhoom

The MM proposed by LC and me does have us growing to size 5 before finishing settler 3. So, if we build a warrior from scratch, the warrior completes on the same turn we grow to size 5. That is why I was catching the OF from the worker into a settler for 1T. We need to find out from ZPV how much slotting in a warrior affects our GLH date.

EDIT: Gowing to size 5 first provides +1 F-H and +1 C per turn.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

T39 - Warrior 1 takes Woody I promotion and heals (1T).

I'm not sure that I agree. If we're leaving him in his current location to spawn-bust, then he isn't in a Forest and a Combat promo would be better.

If we're okay to Heal at the risk of a Panther appearing in the next turn or two, no Promo would be even better, since, when Barb Warriors and Archers appear, we would probably retreat to a Forest, if at all possible, but it would be nice to have the flexibility to take a Combat Promo, if needed.

So, unless you plan to send him to a Forest location to spawn-bust from, I'd rather take no promo or Combat I.

T42 - ...Washington will grow in 2 and finish warrior in 2 by working the corn. Stick with this as opposed to getting Warrior 3 out one turn sooner but without growing to 5.

The idea will be tested, but if we are okay with the idea of staying at Size 4 and only building a Warrior for the single turn when a Forest Chop arrives, then we'd actually get our Warrior out a turn sooner than in this scenario, since we wouldn't have to wait for the Settler to "collect" the Forest Chop.

The tradeoff is not working the 5 square in Washington until later, but if we'll be building a Library or another Warrior after we complete Settler 3, then I don't think that this delay in getting to Size 5 will be harmful.

@ Dhoom

The MM proposed by LC and me does have us growing to size 5 before finishing settler #5. So, if we build a warrior from scratch, the warrior completes on the same turn we grow to size 5. That is why I was catching the OF from the worker into a settler for 1T. We need to find out from ZPV how much slotting in a warrior affects our GLH date.

Well, I wrote the first part of my message before LC's plan appeared in my browser window and then just decided to leave what I'd written and add to it once I refreshed the page but before posting my reply.

 

[shyuhe]

I am sorry to report that overflow Gold does not exist in the current patch. It exists in the BULL .dll, since that .dll contains user-created fixes, but it does not exist in BUFFY. So, any excess overflow Hammers purely disappear.

Did you test this? I thought they re-introduced it in BUFFY.

 

[ZPV]

I'm not sure if you'll actually get a Chop in time, but:
1. The less Food that we collect while building a Warrior, the better, for now, since that Food won't contribute to a Settler, as long as we don't grow to Size 5
2. I don't see how saving overflow for a Settler, if we're going to complete a Warrior first, helps, unless we plan to grow to the next City Size (Size 5). If we aren't planning on growing to the next City Size, it could actually be better to catch overflow and/or Chops into a Warrior.

In fact, if we don't mind delaying the Warrior slightly, then Worker 2 could put its first Chop into a Warrior, completing the Warrior in a single turn, meaning that more of our Food would go toward completing a Settler (we would build a Settler until the turn that we Chopped a Forest, meaning that we'd only spend 1 turn building the Warrior) and less Food would go into a Foodbox where it would sit and rot until it was time to grow to Size 5.

That said, LC's micro-management option might work, too, if we're okay with growing to Size 5. Doing so might not pay off enough in the short run in terms of Hammers relative to Chopping the Warrior, though, due to the Food cost to grow to Size 5.

I am sorry to report that overflow Gold does not exist in the current patch. It exists in the BULL .dll, since that .dll contains user-created fixes, but it does not exist in BUFFY. So, any excess overflow Hammers purely disappear.

Did you test this? I thought they re-introduced it in BUFFY.

I tested it. We get overflow gold.
I've also tested LC's MM. It works - I got GLH in 1080/1040, with similar stats to my other tests. Worker 2 should chop 1 south instead of 1 east though, because it'll save a worker turn later on (a worker will go 1E->3E)
Because we have extra beakers early on, the wheel can go before masonry, and we can get maths a turn earlier if we MM Washington for it (it doesn't look usefully early though - sitting on prechopped forests wasn't the bottleneck)

edit: So it turns out delaying marble city a couple of turns doesn't cost much at all. That means growing to size 5 should be the best option economically. The warrior doesn't get to spawnbust hugely early, but I don't mind that so much.
edit2: somehow edit 1 appeared in the middle of Dhoom's quote box.

 

[LowtherCastle]

EDIT: The MM details LC suggested should be no issue once I've worked them out with the test game. No worries.

Actually, I trust you to get the MM right more than anyone I know. I just thought it would be polite to forewarn you of the MM dump.

One more thing, as long as we're making the mine, why don't you go ahead and pop some copper or gold or whatever you feel like there during your turnset.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I tested it. We get overflow gold.

I stand corrected. I just tried it out, too, and yes, I got some overflow Gold for excess overflow Hammers.

I could have sworn that it didn't use to work. Meh, it appears to work now, which is good enough for me. Not like we really want to convert our Hammers into Gold at this point, though, right?

 

[shyuhe]

Popping copper would be pretty awesome. And potentially game breaking (if Neil intentionally deleted all military resources).

 

[Mitchum]

I would prefer that no teams pop anything in the capital. It's this randomness that leads to complaining or "what if" scenarios. But if LC and shyuhe want me to pop copper in the capital, I'll do my best...

Let’s try this again, incorporating LC’s MM with ZPV’s minor change. Again, I will pause play at the sight of any barbs that would affect this plan. The lion in the NE does not count.

T39 – Rename NY to Gems City. Gems City builds a work boat. Warrior 1 takes Woody I promotion and heals (2T). Warrior 2 heals in Gems (3T). Wkr 1 completes chop at Washington-1N.

T40 - Washington completes Wkr 2 and starts Settler 3 to catch OF hammers (1T). Wkr 1 moves to desert at gems-1NE. Wkr 2 moves to forest at Washington-1S.

T41 - Switch from partial Settler 3 to Warrior 3 in Washington. Warrior 1 moves W onto GForHill. Wkr 1 moves to the gems tile and mines it. Wkr 2 chops forest at Washington-1S.

T42 - Warrior 1 moves NW to the GHill, completing exploration of the western area. Warrior 2 moves to Gems-1W. Washington will grow in 2 and finish warrior in 2 by working the corn. Stick with this as opposed to getting Warrior 3 out one turn sooner without growing to 5.

T43 - Warrior 1 moves 1SE to GForHill. Warrior 2 moves SW. Wkr 2 completes chop. Switch from partial Warrior 3 to partial Settler 3 in Washington to catch chopped hammers.

T44 - Switch from partial Settler 3 to partial Warrior 3 in Washington. Move Gem City’s citizen from deer to completed gem mine. Warrior 1 moves E if the coast is clear to spawn bust at pig-2NE. Warrior 2 moves W to GForHill to spawn bust at Gems-3W1S. Wkr 2 move to PHill at Washington-2E.

T45 - Writing -> Sailing at 0% research for 1 turn. Washington grows to 5 pops and works improved tiles plus silk and spices. Warrior 3 completes and Settler 3 continues. Warrior 3 moves to Washington-1SE. Wkr 1 farm/stop at Gems-1N. Wkr 2 mines PHill at Washington-2E.

T46 - Research back to 100%. Warrior 3 moves SW to spawn bust the SE while waiting for the settler. Wkr 1 farms the wheat.

T47 - Washington finishes Settler 3.

I intend to play through Sailing or so, but stopping mid way through my turnset will help me focus better and will give everyone a chance to reassess our situation re: demographics, barbs, etc.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Looks excellent, Mitchum! Since we'll finally see the full area around Pigs, you might pause to evaluate whether or not it's a stronger place to settle than Marble, before commiting the settler to moving toward Marble. If you think it might be, then you could stop for some discussion.

@ZPV: I've meaning to ask you but keep forgetting. How do you get Sailing on 1920BC?

 

[Mitchum]

I'll probably play tomorrow morning my time (16ish hours from now). That will give everyone time to comment on the PPP. I plan to stop on the turn Settler 3 is completed (T47) so that we can re-assess the situation. I will not move the settler before uploading the save.

 

[shyuhe]

I'm good with the PPP.

 

[ZPV]

@ZPV: I've meaning to ask you but keep forgetting. How do you get Sailing on 1920BC?

I didn't do anything special - I'll run it again briefly to check.

Mitchum - looks like you've got everything in hand.

 

[ZPV]

@ZPV: I've meaning to ask you but keep forgetting. How do you get Sailing on 1920BC?

I didn't do anything special - I'll run it again briefly to check.

Now that the warrior is there, it isn't at all difficult.
With Marble settled on t45, the trick was to run 2 turns of 0% research, and then when marble grew to size 2, the second citizen would work the crabs. 5 turns of 100% followed by 1 turn of 70% science are just enough to finish Sailing 1920BC.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Mitchum, before stopping on T47, and assuming you didn't already spot a barb there, you might as well move the warrior NE to the forest to check the fogged tile 1N of the marble. Or is it even possible there will be a unit there, if you didn't see one the previous turn? I suppose not...

 

[ZPV]

Mitchum, before stopping on T47, and assuming you didn't already spot a barb there, you might as well move the warrior NE to the forest to check the fogged tile 1N of the marble. Or is it even possible there will be a unit there, if you didn't see one the previous turn? I suppose not...

There can't be a unit there, but that's the direction the warrior wants to go in, anyway.

 

[Mitchum]

I'll be playing in about 30 minutes. Speak now or deal with it.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I'll be playing in about 30 minutes. Speak now

Good luck!!!