SGOTM 14 - Spooks

[denyd]

Didn't have as much time as expect last night, so only got PBEM turns done - Startjng on it now - Plan to sign ROP with Celts, land units and go back for a 2nd helping before starting the war. I'll make sure to have ROP with the rest in place.

If I sign and ROP with Inca, as requested, I'll have difficuly evicted them (or getting them to declare). I'll keep a couple Knights around them (protecting cities) until I get some crusaders in place.

 

[denyd]

End of Turn 7 (will finish tomorrow) = 19 Knights on Celt dirts with 5 more on the way - 11 Knights in France with 10 more on the way - Only signed ROP with those 2 will sign with all others possible before declaring. Currently 54 Knights with 5 more to complete next turn.

 

[denyd]

Just starting turn 9 - during the inter-turn China landed a spear-warrior pair - I asked him to remove them, he declared instead - Elite Knight killed the spear and an MGL is born. What do I do with the new MGL?

Note: I intended to declare on Celts this turn with 21 Knights on the island and 10 getting ready to board ships. In France there are 11 on the ground and another 10 in boats.

 

[Paul#42]

nice.
How about rushing HE in YY (or the town that will give us horse and hill on expansion)?
It might get us more MGL to use on the islands.

Or we use it for an army against a tough opponent - one with cheap def-3-units starting his GA?

Anyway - if we decide for an army, build it soon (and join one knight for quick movement) so we can get more...

 

[markh]

Ho-ho guys, settle that issue now.

Forget it. Had a bad week, so I maybe overreacted. Sorry Piu.

 

[denyd]

As I see it there are 2 major choices:
1. An Army
2. Hurry a build

For the Army decisions:
Do I fill it with Knights or Crusaders?
Where should it be filled (France & the Celts would be a waste).
We could let it roam around Rome pillaging all of the improvements.
Are there any other multi-tribe continents where a Knight/Crusader Army would be of value?

Hurry something:
Heroic Epic is the only thing worth using him on, unless a harbor on a soon to be taken land would help. But I don't really want to wait that long to use him. I've got at least 5 other elite units that will be attacking either this or the next turn and would hate to waste those MGL chances.

I'm holding off playing until we decide as I've got an Elite Horseman about to hit an unfortified, regular warrior on a plain tile, which is likely to be another MGL chance.

 

[Andronicus]

My vote would be form an army and leave it empty.
I wonder if a crusader army makes more sense, as once formed an army on an island it is stuck there.
I dont think we want to use the army until the rop's expire and we have to land on a hostile shore. Landing on a relatively inaccessible part with no units filled to army would ensure the army wasnt immed attacked. We could then add units next turn and move the units under army cover to the prime city to attack.
I dont think an army will make a huge difference on any island - we just need greater unit numbers against stronger AI.
It comes at the cost of those units being stuck on that island and not being able to push on to take the next island.
I think a crusader army might be best as it would get them to 2 move, same as our knights.
We might even want to abandon the army after the island is taken to save the 8gpt maintenance costs and hurry a settler .

 

[Andronicus]

Anyway - if we decide for an army, build it soon (and join one knight for quick movement) so we can get more...

If army has a unit added and it lands on hostile shores, it will be identified as the strongest unit and attacked first wont it?

 

[ControlFreak]

I spent my weekend Christmas shopping...and counting map tiles.

(Please tell me sea tiles don't count towards domination or all of this is wrong.) I've attached a zip file with an excel sheet inside. View attachment Tiles for Dom.zip EDIT: Revised

If you can run Excel, it shows the civs and the tiles they own. I defined Coast as immediately adjacent to a land tile. There were a few coastal tiles that are not immediately next to a land tile which are treated as extended coast. Some coastal tiles are shared between two continents. They are counted in both continents so they have to be subtracted from the total if looking for all domination tiles.

The right columns allow you to check or blank civs that we plan on conquering. Putting any character in the intent column adds their tiles to the total at the top. I calculated the domination tiles needed as 66.6% of the total land and coast tiles I could see. I added a "reservation" cell which currently has an estimate of the number of tiles we'll need to leave in the hands of the AIs as prisons.

I unchecked the Civs that Andronicus warned about having 3-def units. It looks like we should have plenty of tiles for domination even if we left them all alone.

I think HE is someplace that has need of culture is the best plan. But if it delays the leader fishing, make an army.

 

[Più Freddo]

Wouldn't using a Crusaider delay the usage of the Army? It has to get there -- on foot. In that case, we'd have to leave the leader as is and use its fast movement and only later make the Army when the Crusaider is close. That would mean that we shouldn't use the Elite units for some time. A very high price for no obvious good.

I'd rather put an adjacent veteran or elite* Knight into it and use it this turn (or when healed). With one unit it can still travel overseas. Three moves, blitz, higher power figures, faster healing, healing on enemy territory and radar vision sure are useful. Unless on the huge eastern island, I'd leave it at that (one-Knight galley-movable Army) and repeat for the next MGL.

Building HE is also an option, it's up to you. That also has the sense to make more Armies, plus the little culture. With fifty turns to play, the option is still valid.

 

[Paul#42]

If army has a unit added and it lands on hostile shores, it will be identified as the strongest unit and attacked first wont it?

Right. So you'd favor an empty army to land?
If we had a reg knight in the army and a couple of crusaders guarding, they would show up on top... But not for too long...

I spent my weekend Christmas shopping...and counting map tiles.

Good job!

Wouldn't using a Crusaider delay the usage of the Army? It has to get there -- on foot. In that case, we'd have to leave the leader as is and use its fast movement and only later make the Army when the Crusaider is close. That would mean that we shouldn't use the Elite units for some time. A very high price for no obvious good.

I'd rather put an adjacent veteran or elite* Knight into it and use it this turn (or when healed). With one unit it can still travel overseas. Three moves, blitz, higher power figures, faster healing, healing on enemy territory and radar vision sure are useful. Unless on the huge eastern island, I'd leave it at that (one-Knight galley-movable Army) and repeat for the next MGL.

Yep, knights armies, no crusaders! Why waste a movement point for a small margin of more attack and defense power?
Those crusaders are good defenders alone. (pike++)

Building HE is also an option, it's up to you. That also has the sense to make more Armies, plus the little culture. With fifty turns to play, the option is still valid.

I'd like it!

 

[denyd]

I'm going with what seems to be a semi-consensus - An empty army - I've got a couple more chances to get another

 

[denyd]

Ok, Paris, Entremont, Alesia & Richardborough are ours. In the middle of turn 10 I got another MGL in Paris. What to do with him is the question. I'll be celebrating my birthday for the next 6 hours then I'll be back to complete this marathon.

 

[Paul#42]

Ok, Paris, Entremont, Alesia & Richardborough are ours. In the middle of turn 10 I got another MGL in Paris. What to do with him is the question. I'll be celebrating my birthday for the next 6 hours then I'll be back to complete this marathon.

Nice present from C3C
Happy Birthday!

empty army again - but you could feed it with a knight I'd think.

 

[Più Freddo]

For each MGL we get, there is less reason to build the Heroic Epic. So since we didn't do it last time, why would we do it now? It all Armies. Fill then all with one Knight, preferably an elite* one.

Why leave an Army empty longer than to the end of the current turn?

 

[Paul#42]

Why leave an Army empty longer than to the end of the current turn?

Only reason would be to let it not show up on top of a stack.
What's stronger, the army or a crusader? Army (loaded with e-knight) I'd assume.
But it has not to be a disadvantage, the army has good odds to survive an attack of a ATT-3-unit (and creep below the rest of the stack). Unless it retreats...

btw, did we take SoZ? Did we build a rax there?

Can't wait to see the save.

 

[Più Freddo]

Only reason would be to let it not show up on top of a stack.

Fair enough. But it is practically immovable.

 

[ControlFreak]

I've attached a zip file with an excel sheet inside. View attachment 197262 EDIT: Revised

There was an error in my excel file that forgot to add our home continent to the domination limit calc. I've fixed the above post.

 

[denyd]

First of all THE SAVE


SGOTM 14 – Turn-set 2 – Part 2

Turn 4 – 110 BC (continued)
Trade Monarchy + Incense to Mongols for Wool (in case we have war with Mayans
Ask Mayans to leave and he says no problem, but he’s still there
40g hurries a galley in ZZ
Iron is disconnected and pike builds switch to horsemen
Before ending the turn – I spend about 100g to investigate 3 Celtic cities and see a too may GS for 10 Knights

Picking up where I left off:
MM’d per Andronicus recommendations
Used his technique of adding shields by short rushing cheaper units to get more units out sooner
Sign peace with Inca getting 10g – Trade Republic to Inca for Furs

IBT: Accept peace renewal with Arabs – Zulu have a galley - CC Horse->Horse – Badajoz Settler->Settler – WW Galley->Galley – HH Horse->Horse – QQ Horse->Horse – AA Horse->Horse – SS Knight->Horse – DD Horse->Horse – ZZ Galley-Galley – FF Galley-Galley – RR Horse->Horse – Egypt starts Great Library

Turn 5 – 90 BC – Disband catapult in Yakutsk – Sign ROP with Celts and land 10 Knights

IBT: Mayans declare war on us: Warrior loses to our Knight (3/4) – MM Horse->Horse – Greeks start Leos – Sumer starts Great Library – Zulus razed Uskador L

Turn 6 – 70 BC – Treb hits Mayan spear – E.Horse (2/5) kills Mayan spear

IBT: HH Horse->Horse – BB Horse->Horse – AA Horse->Horse – SS Horse-Horse – Persia starts Great Library

Turn 7 – 50 BC – Sign ROP with France – Now have 11 Knights in France – 19 Knights in Celts land

Now after a bit of sleep, on with the show

IBT: Note: Babylonian Galley heading for Zulu as well as a pair of horsemen – CC Horse->Horse – YY Baracks->Horse – QQ Horse->Horse – GG Knight->Horse – DD Horse->Horse – EE Knight->Horse

Turn 8 – 30 BC – Disband Trebuchet in Medina – All set to go next turn

IBT: Sign peace with Hittites getting ROP – China has landed a spear & Warrior - Medina Galley->Galley – Will need to gift a new city to Zulu as Hammy may have landed units next to Shaka’s xxx – HH Horse->Horse – A new Crusader is born – AA Horse-Horse – SS Horse->Horse

Turn 9 – 10 BC – Ask China to remove forces and he declares – E.Knight (5/5) kills R.Spear and Alfonso (2nd MGL) is born – Pause to consult the team

Continued (once again):
Alfonso creates an Army
E.Horse (4/5) kills Chinese R.Warrior
Gift Brennus his new home and do the same with Joanie
Spend 54g for an Embassy in Cuzco – Sign ROP with Inca
Spend 75g for an Embassy in Krarkorum – About to complete Great Library – Sign ROP with Mongols
Spend 49g for Embassy in Athens – Get 95g + 3gpt from Greece for an ROP
Sign ROP with America getting 2g
Spend 58g for an Embassy in Berlin – Note the anarchy – Sign ROP with Germany
Spend 53g for an Embassy in Thebes – Note it’s next to a volcano – Sign ROP with Egypt
Spend 57g for an Embassy in Persepolis – Sign ROP with Persia getting 33g
Spend 98g for an Embassy in Ur – Sign ROP getting 1g with Sumer
Sign ROP with Hittites
That’s about it for the friendly part of the turn
R.Galley (2/4) kills Chinese R.Galley and promotes
Declare war on France – Battle for Paris:
V.Knight (3/4) kills R.Spear
V.Knight (1/4) retreats from R.Spear (2/3)
V.Knight (1/4) kills R.Spear
V.Knight (2/4) kills R.Spear
V.Knight (4/4) kills R.Spear
V.Knight (4/4) kills R.Horse capturing Paris with Colossus
V.Knight (4/4) kills R.Horse
V.Knight (3/4) kills R.Horse
V.Knight (2/4) kills R.Horse
V.Knight (1/4) retreats from R.Spear (3/3)
V.Knight (1/4) kills R.R.Spear
Unload another 8 Knights in France

Declare war on Celts: Battle for Entremont:
V.Knight (4/4) kills V.Spear
V.Knight (3/4) kills V.Spear
V.Knight (4/5) kills V.Spear and promotes
V.Knight (2/5) kills V.Spear and promotes
V.Knight (2/4) kills V.Gallic
V.Knight (1/4) retreats from V.Spear (3/4)
V.Knight (3/5) kills V.Spear and captures Entremont and promotes
E.Knight (4/5) kills V.Gallic

Battle for Alesia:
V.Knight loses to V.Spear (1/4)
V.Knight (4/4) kills V.Spear
V.Knight (4/4) kills V.Spear
V.Knight loses to V.Gallic (1/4)
V.Knight (4/4) kills V.Spear
V.Knght (1/4) kills V.Gallic and captures Alesia
V.Knight (1/4) kills V.Spear
V.Knight (3/4) kills V.Archer
V.Knight (4/4) kills V.Spear
V.Knight (3/4) kills V.Archer

IBT:
Rostov worker->worker – GG Horse->Horse – Yekaterinburg worker->worker – French start Great Library – Mongols build Great Library
Battle results:
Paris 1 V.Knight and w/3 promotions to Elite (11 knights were there)
Entremont: Lose 1 V.Knight and w/2 promotions to Elite
French lose 5 V.Horses & 1 V.Archer
Celts lose 3 V.Archers & 1 V.Chariot

Turn 10 – 10 AD:
Battle for Richardborough:
V.Knight (1/4) kills R.Spear
V.Knight (1/4) retreats from R.Spear (2/3)
V.Knight (4/4) kills R.Spear and captures Richardborough

Defense of Paris:
V.Knight (4/4) kills R.Spear
V.Knight (1/4) kills R.Spear
E.Knight (4/5) kills R.Archer
E.Knight (4/5) kills R.Archer
E.Knight (5/5) kills R.Horse
E.Knight (3/5) kills R.Horse
E.Knight (3/5) kills R.Horse and get an MGL (Dinis)

Pause to discuss what to do with him.
Continuing after a day at Disneyland:
Dinis is now an Army in Paris loaded with an Elite* Knight
At Paris:
Knight Army (2/5) kills R.Archer
V.Knight (1/4) retreats from V.Spear (3/4)
V.Knight (1/4) retreats from V.Spear (2/4)
V.Knight (3/4) kills R.Spear

Battle: Off the coast of Medina:
R.Galley (2/3) sinks Chinese R.Galley

Battle near Alesia:
V.Knight loses to V.Gallic (2/4)
V.Knight (4/4) kills V.Gallic

Battle at Entremont:
E.Knight (2/5) kills V.Spear
E,Knight (2/5) kills V.Spear
E.Knight (2/5) kills V.Spear

Battle near Lugdunum:
V.Knight (1/4) kills R.Spear

Notes: We’ll need to keep an eye on the Zulu, Babylon & Russia as they all have galleys and may try to wipe one another off the map (which would be a bad thing)

Our knights in Entermont will be a lot healthier next turn and can probably put a major hurt on the Celtic southern troops. At the end of last turn he began moving troops northward.

In France, there are about 20 Knights facing horses, archers & spears (nearly all regulars), so this shouldn’t take long. We should probably begin moving galleys to the north of France for transport to the Incan lands. Their capital is going to be a pain to take (size 8 on a hill), but the other cities should fall with ease.

On our home island, Babylon is moving 4-5 units N towards the Zulu. When you’re ready, give him a new home (maybe Richardborough) and wipe out what’s left of him in the south. I didn’t realize he had the SoZ or I would have made taking out a bigger priority. I’ve got most of core cities on 10spt or 15spt building horses for upgrades. We’ve still got 1000g with 267gpt, so we can keep upgrading (at 120g each) for a while longer. Also keep an eye on QQ as I’ve been starving it to keep up the 10spt. I was planning on gifting WW to either America or the Inca and will another Settler in PP ready to head north so that when we relocate Shaka we’ll be able to resettle the old Uskador.

 

[Paul#42]

Nice progress.

From first glance:
With so many cheap units, we might even fill that army in France and go for the quicker kill. We'll get lots of opportunities for MGL there.

Sell those market and granaries in Paris and Richborough.
Gift Richborough to Babs and wipe them off our continent.